An honest assessment of Islam

[nyantler]

just go back and listen again to what LTC West says.. thats it in a nutshell.

[Dave]

just go back and listen again to what LTC West says.. thats it in a nutshell.

I agree 100%. Who would know better than him.

Dave

[Dave]

Right, over seas is a different story, some place's truely hate us with a passion.

I saw news footage after the 9-11 attack in some communities where people were cheering in the streets.

Dave

[Doewhacker]

Right, over seas is a different story, some place's truely hate us with a passion.

I saw news footage after the 9-11 attack in some communities where people were cheering in the streets.

Dave

Did you also see reports of vigilante style un needed attacks on innocent law abiding Muslims?

[Dave]

Right, over seas is a different story, some place's truely hate us with a passion.

I saw news footage after the 9-11 attack in some communities where people were cheering in the streets.

Dave

Did you also see reports of vigilante style un needed attacks on innocent law abiding Muslims?

I don't condone the attacks on innocent people. But after hearing Muslims have attacked and killed thousands of Americans don't you think there would be cause for alarm. That the Muslim community would be under scrutiny for being sympathizers. Do you truly think the country was thinking rational, I remember a cry for retribution .The nation wanted the government to react for this act of terrorism. So I am not surprise some citizens reacted with violence against the Muslim community.

Dave

[Mr VJP]

It doesn't matter what I, or you, think.  This country is at war.  The government knows it, and the enemy knows it.  The future of America is in serious jeopardy because many of it's citizens don't realize it.  That gives the enemy the upper hand.

To call a 20 year Combat Army Colonel ignorant, or any older person in America who has lived through attacks on America by terrorists since Reagan was president, is rude and shows a total lack of reality and sense. 

Just because you have never seen people celebrate Islamic attacks on America, doesn't mean it did not happen.  I saw it.  In Jersey City, Hoboken, West NY and Weehawken on 9/11/01.  The media was told by authorities not to show it on TV for fear the rest of the citizens in the area would demand we round them all up and deport them, or worse. 

I was a firefighter in 2001 and I saw it with my own eyes.  I saw plenty more after that too and I know what I'm talking about.  I have many nephews and nieces who were, or are, in the service too.  They have seen much more than I, and though they are young, they are not of the mindset we are seeing from other people of their generation in this tread.

It saddens me to think of all the veterans who fought and died for the freedom we so cherish in America, never knowing that it would one day be used to tear the country down and bring it to an end, by a generation of citizens who had everything handed to them without earning it.

If this is the mindset of the next generation of Americans who will run this country, this society, and this country, are doomed.

[steve863]

It doesn't matter what I, or you, think.  This country is at war.  The government knows it, and the enemy knows it.  The future of America is in serious jeopardy because many of it's citizens don't realize it.  That gives the enemy the upper hand.

To call a 20 year Combat Army Colonel ignorant, or any older person in America who has lived through attacks on America by terrorists since Reagan was president, is rude and shows a total lack of reality and sense. 

Just because you have never seen people celebrate Islamic attacks on America, doesn't mean it did not happen.  I saw it.  In Jersey City, Hoboken, West NY and Weehawken on 9/11/01.  The media was told by authorities not to show it on TV for fear the rest of the citizens in the area would demand we round them all up and deport them, or worse. 

I was a firefighter in 2001 and I saw it with my own eyes.  I saw plenty more after that too and I know what I'm talking about.  I have many nephews and nieces who were, or are, in the service too.  They have seen much more than I, and though they are young, they are not of the mindset we are seeing from other people of their generation in this tread.

It saddens me to think of all the veterans who fought and died for the freedom we so cherish in America, never knowing that it would one day be used to tear the country down and bring it to an end, by a generation of citizens who had everything handed to them without earning it.

If this is the mindset of the next generation of Americans who will run this country, this society, and this country, are doomed.

So if you saw cheering with your own eyes, what do YOU suggest the solution should be here?  You think our nation is in jeopardy because of muslims, so exactly what should be done?  Telling us that YOU are a patriotic, America loving, "God Bless America" singing person while others aren't is honestly not enough of an answer here. 

[Dave]

It doesn't matter what I, or you, think.  This country is at war.  The government knows it, and the enemy knows it.  The future of America is in serious jeopardy because many of it's citizens don't realize it.  That gives the enemy the upper hand.

To call a 20 year Combat Army Colonel ignorant, or any older person in America who has lived through attacks on America by terrorists since Reagan was president, is rude and shows a total lack of reality and sense. 

Just because you have never seen people celebrate Islamic attacks on America, doesn't mean it did not happen.  I saw it.  In Jersey City, Hoboken, West NY and Weehawken on 9/11/01.  The media was told by authorities not to show it on TV for fear the rest of the citizens in the area would demand we round them all up and deport them, or worse. 

I was a firefighter in 2001 and I saw it with my own eyes.  I saw plenty more after that too and I know what I'm talking about.  I have many nephews and nieces who were, or are, in the service too.  They have seen much more than I, and though they are young, they are not of the mindset we are seeing from other people of their generation in this tread.

It saddens me to think of all the veterans who fought and died for the freedom we so cherish in America, never knowing that it would one day be used to tear the country down and bring it to an end, by a generation of citizens who had everything handed to them without earning it.

If this is the mindset of the next generation of Americans who will run this country, this society, and this country, are doomed.

VJP I agree there was footage of celebrations in the streets and then they were abruptly stopped. What some people forget, the assets that were ceased by federal agents from Muslim organizations that were funding the terrorists. We are at war is correct but we have rules the terrorist have no rules and there is the advantage.

Dave

[Doewhacker]

"If this is the mindset of the next generation of Americans who will run this country, this society, and this country, are doomed."

I wonder if the generation before you thought the same thing about you?

[Dave]

It doesn't matter what I, or you, think.  This country is at war.  The government knows it, and the enemy knows it.  The future of America is in serious jeopardy because many of it's citizens don't realize it.  That gives the enemy the upper hand.

To call a 20 year Combat Army Colonel ignorant, or any older person in America who has lived through attacks on America by terrorists since Reagan was president, is rude and shows a total lack of reality and sense. 

Just because you have never seen people celebrate Islamic attacks on America, doesn't mean it did not happen.  I saw it.  In Jersey City, Hoboken, West NY and Weehawken on 9/11/01.  The media was told by authorities not to show it on TV for fear the rest of the citizens in the area would demand we round them all up and deport them, or worse. 

I was a firefighter in 2001 and I saw it with my own eyes.  I saw plenty more after that too and I know what I'm talking about.  I have many nephews and nieces who were, or are, in the service too.  They have seen much more than I, and though they are young, they are not of the mindset we are seeing from other people of their generation in this tread.

It saddens me to think of all the veterans who fought and died for the freedom we so cherish in America, never knowing that it would one day be used to tear the country down and bring it to an end, by a generation of citizens who had everything handed to them without earning it.

If this is the mindset of the next generation of Americans who will run this country, this society, and this country, are doomed.

So if you saw cheering with your own eyes, what do YOU suggest the solution should be here?  You think our nation is in jeopardy because of muslims, so exactly what should be done?  Telling us that YOU are a patriotic, America loving, "God Bless America" singing person while others aren't is honestly not enough of an answer here.

Steve you keep asking what is the solution, well what is your solution

Dave

[steve863]

Sorry, but you boys started the bitching about muslims, so it is in your corner to come up with some.  Simply bitching just for the sake of bitching without any real solutions or ideas here won't get you any real footing with many on this forum or anywhere else for that matter. 

[Mr VJP]

The solution was stated by the Lt Col. in the first video.  You can go back and watch it again.  The man knows what he is talking about and wants to save your life, even if you don't think it needs to be saved.

[Caveman]

And in the American south men don white hoods and hang black men for being black...what does that tell you? Terrorism is a subjective term and one attempted definition is just as arbitrary as the next.  THere's a famous quote, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.  That doesn't justify terrorism, but we can't really understand something until we look at it from another perspective. 

"They attacked us"  That's a mature way to look at it.  Yes, they attacked us.  They also attacked a military installation.  We firebombed Tokyo, burned the city to the ground and killed hundreds of thousands, then we dropped two nukes.  On innocent civilians.  Children, women, the elderly, our hands aren't clean.  You're living in a glass house, I'd suggest putting your rocks down.

What planet are you from? Were you dropped on your head when you were a kid. Does moron ring a bell.

Dave

You proved something with that response.  I'm no longer going to give your posts the dignity of an intelligent response.

[Dave]

Sorry, but you boys started the bitching about muslims, so it is in your corner to come up with some.  Simply bitching just for the sake of bitching without any real solutions or ideas here won't get you any real footing with many on this forum or anywhere else for that matter.

Steve there you go again, Speak for yourself, you are not the spokesman for this site.  I thought everyone on this site speaks for themselves, right or wrong. Yes I am bitching about the Muslims who attacked us on 9-11 . I was there the day the two planes hit and stayed there 14 hrs a day for almost 3 weeks. I feel for every innocent person and their families, who's lives will never be the same. The children who lost fathers, mothers , brothers, aunt, uncles etc. You get my point, those who did this must held accountable.  So what's your solution now?

Dave

[Dave]

And in the American south men don white hoods and hang black men for being black...what does that tell you? Terrorism is a subjective term and one attempted definition is just as arbitrary as the next.  THere's a famous quote, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.  That doesn't justify terrorism, but we can't really understand something until we look at it from another perspective. 

"They attacked us"  That's a mature way to look at it.  Yes, they attacked us.  They also attacked a military installation.  We firebombed Tokyo, burned the city to the ground and killed hundreds of thousands, then we dropped two nukes.  On innocent civilians.  Children, women, the elderly, our hands aren't clean.  You're living in a glass house, I'd suggest putting your rocks down.

What planet are you from? Were you dropped on your head when you were a kid. Does moron ring a bell.

Dave

You proved something with that response.  I'm no longer going to give your posts the dignity of an intelligent response.

Thank God for that, who wants to hear what you have to say you said enough.

Dave

[steve863]

No I have no desire to be a spokesman here for anyone.  You however are still not giving us any ideas of what should be done.  Those that actually DID commit the act were dead on 9-11.  Others involved behind the scenes were caught or killed, while the apparent mastermind of it all Bin Laden has still not been caught.  We went to war in two nations because of 9-11.  So what else do we do that we already have not?  How else should they be held accountable?  You were the first to say anything about wanting accountability here.  Simply condemning every muslim is not what we need.  You are stooping to the same level as the most fanatical muslim if you do.

[Dave]

No I have no desire to be a spokesman here for anyone.  You however are still not giving us any ideas of what should be done.  Those that actually DID commit the act were dead on 9-11.  Others involved behind the scenes were caught or killed, while the apparent mastermind of it all Bin Laden has still not been caught.  We went to war in two nations because of 9-11.  So what else do we do that we already have not?  How else should they be held accountable?  You were the first to say anything about wanting accountability here.  Simply condemning every muslim is not what we need.  You are stooping to the same level as the most fanatical muslim if you do.

Are you calling me a fanatical Muslim?

Dave

[steve863]

No I have no desire to be a spokesman here for anyone.  You however are still not giving us any ideas of what should be done.  Those that actually DID commit the act were dead on 9-11.  Others involved behind the scenes were caught or killed, while the apparent mastermind of it all Bin Laden has still not been caught.  We went to war in two nations because of 9-11.  So what else do we do that we already have not?  How else should they be held accountable?  You were the first to say anything about wanting accountability here.  Simply condemning every muslim is not what we need.  You are stooping to the same level as the most fanatical muslim if you do.

Are you calling me a fanatical Muslim?

Dave

No, would you like to be?

[Caveman]

Well I've spent a lot of time on this thread and now when I was at class three more pages popped up so for the sake of saving myself some time for my procedural law paper I'll make two last comments and bow out.

1) No two people on this site are going to have the same opinions on every issue.  That's fine.  That's the way it's supposed to be.  However, we can all express our different views without resorting to petty insults, name calling, or references to people's personal lives i.e. education, age, etc.  In my view if you have an opinion but cannot express it in an intelligent, meaningful, and respectful manner...please keep it to yourself. 

2) The bottom line for my argument is that one cannot live in a country they consider free, be proud of that freedom, call themselves an American, and yet advocate for the exclusion, exile, or persecution of an entire people based on their faith.  That is not what this country was based on.  Everyone will have an opinion about these people, however, to call for political action against them is hypocritical at best.

Thanks guys and have a good one (even you damn conservatives  ) Any responses please PM them so I can keep up in the midst of school, work, and volunteer activities.

[Dave]

No I have no desire to be a spokesman here for anyone.  You however are still not giving us any ideas of what should be done.  Those that actually DID commit the act were dead on 9-11.  Others involved behind the scenes were caught or killed, while the apparent mastermind of it all Bin Laden has still not been caught.  We went to war in two nations because of 9-11.  So what else do we do that we already have not?  How else should they be held accountable?  You were the first to say anything about wanting accountability here.  Simply condemning every muslim is not what we need.  You are stooping to the same level as the most fanatical muslim if you do.

Are you calling me a fanatical Muslim?

Dave

No, would you like to be?

Steve, thanks for confirming what a fool you are. Now everyone on this site can see too. Maybe what we should be questioning is your loyalty. 

Dave

[steve863]

Questioning my loyalty to what?  Believing what YOU think everyone in this country should believe?  You can't answer a simple question and then you call others fools and morons.  I guess I am a fool to expect any more from you! LOL

[Dave]

Questioning my loyalty to what?  Believing what YOU think everyone in this country should believe?  You can't answer a simple question and then you call others fools and morons.  I guess I am a fool to expect any more from you! LOL

I don't see that this is going anywhere and we can agree to disagree. So I don't think I well be playing this game with you any more. The opinions I have expressed are just mine and I didn't expect you or anyone else to agree, they are just my feelings on this subject. Maybe I am to personally attacked to this topic due to the time I have spent at Ground zero and all the feelings this topic brings up. PS. you are not a fool nor a moron. I should probably slow down on the reply key. I am sure there are other topics we will agree on.

Dave

[Mr VJP]

Don't bet on it Dave.  Not with some of these guys on here you won't.

[wztirem]

obviously you have never sat on the end of the job interview where you get to ask the questions.. I can find out all I need to know just by asking questions... liberals are easy to spot and so are conservatives..

Must be the red shirts and blue shirts that can differentiate them.

[nyantler]

well the conservatives usually have a flag on their t-shirt and the liberal has a marijuana leaf on his.