E Collar Training

[Hookhunter20]

I have a one year old Chesapeake Bay I rescued a month ago to train for duck hunting. I have experience with the breed and know they can be a handful at times so I took on the project expecting just that a project. I never expected her to catch on so quickly, shes got everything down and passed her gun shyness test with flying colors. I am confident she will be in the duck blind with me this fall however, shes got one problem I am not sure how to break. She has such a high prey drive she will break and chase just about anything that moves. Last week a deer and rabbit, today the neighbors cat and it is impossible to call her off. Once she gets it in her mind shes going, shes gone. My neighbor also raises pheasants and now that she knows the scent and look of a real bird (now using a dead mallard hen for scent recognition) she immediately breaks from the house to his pheasant coop and scares the living hell out of them. I am happy shes got the drive but I can't have her bothering my neighbors. Also the non target chasing is obviously a no go while hunting. Is my best bet to have her wear an e collar and give her a zap when she wont come off and goes after non target animals. As for the neighbors pheasants I am at a loss what to do there. I don't want to discourage her bird drive. Any advice on the subject is appreciated. 

[NonTypical]

The e collar will stop her in her tracks. My Weimaraner was trained with it and it is a very effective training tool. I give him the command "OFF" whenever he shows an interest in something that he shouldn't.

[Tacti_Steve]

I have a one year old Chesapeake Bay I rescued a month ago to train for duck hunting. I have experience with the breed and know they can be a handful at times so I took on the project expecting just that a project. I never expected her to catch on so quickly, shes got everything down and passed her gun shyness test with flying colors. I am confident she will be in the duck blind with me this fall however, shes got one problem I am not sure how to break. She has such a high prey drive she will break and chase just about anything that moves. Last week a deer and rabbit, today the neighbors cat and it is impossible to call her off. Once she gets it in her mind shes going, shes gone. My neighbor also raises pheasants and now that she knows the scent and look of a real bird (now using a dead mallard hen for scent recognition) she immediately breaks from the house to his pheasant coop and scares the living hell out of them. I am happy shes got the drive but I can't have her bothering my neighbors. Also the non target chasing is obviously a no go while hunting. Is my best bet to have her wear an e collar and give her a zap when she wont come off and goes after non target animals. As for the neighbors pheasants I am at a loss what to do there. I don't want to discourage her bird drive. Any advice on the subject is appreciated. 

As a houndsman with a Garmin alpha and TT10 collar I'll say it works!!! I've broken dogs without it and will never try again. Using an ecollar is so much easier. You can break them of off game without killing the drive. You need to encourage them right. You can't just use the ecollar. You need positive reinforcement as well. 

[Paula]

My beagle was trained on a collar. Now all he needs is a command and maybe a tone with it

[Doewhacker]

Read this

 

http://www.gundogsonline.com/Article/Beginning-Electronic-Collar-Training-Page1.htm

 

If it is possible attend a collar clinic too.

 

 

As far as breaking her from the bird pen, repetition and obedience are the key. I have a couple bird dogs and a bunch of different bird pens and they know to leave them alone with out loosing any drive.

[diplomat019]

I used the ecollar on my dog. Took a couple weeks To get his commands solid. Now i just put it on when we hunt.

One thing i would be careful with is buzzing him when he goes near the pen. You dont want him to associate birds with being nicked. Im sure there are people here with way more knowledge than me. But be mindful of creating that association.

Doewhacker seems to have it down. Pick his brain on keeping that drive going while keeping his obedience under wraps.

Good luck!

[Bowguy 1]

We've used ecollars a long time for breaking dogs. 

Mny method is to let em chase just a bit, say nothing n hit em. They'll think the deer or whatever did it. 

Never say a word in conjunction as you'll start hitting the collar n yelling no. 

One day the batteries will be dead, it won't be on etc. They'll chase perhaps n not get shocked. They shouldn't associate the stimulation w you. 

Just my opinion n I've had prob 100 personal dogs plus trained others

[Doewhacker]

I have never heard of that method Bowguy, I always follow the command-correct-command sequence. It doesn't matter if I correct with a leash, heeling stick or e-collar, that's how I do it.

I use "leave it" or "no bird". I don't use no because it sounds close to whoa which is a different command I give. I will also sometimes allow a dog to make the mistake I want to correct so I can correct it. This lets them learn what not to do with reinforcement from me.

[Bowguy 1]

3 hours ago, Doewhacker said:

I have never heard of that method Bowguy, I always follow the command-correct-command sequence. It doesn't matter if I correct with a leash, heeling stick or e-collar, that's how I do it.

I use "leave it" or "no bird". I don't use no because it sounds close to whoa which is a different command I give. I will also sometimes allow a dog to make the mistake I want to correct so I can correct it. This lets them learn what not to do with reinforcement from me.

The reason for the non command is you want absolute the non chasing trash. 

They should associate the shock w the game doing it not you. Try it sometime, shock em off a deer that way n next time they smell one they just ain't going. 

Hounds tend to chase more than bird dogs n once gone the chase is on. Bird dogs come back after a short stint commonly. 

Ive never had a bird dog chase. 

 

Another thing to consider using voice commands, wondering how many guys train "stay"? Or sit? Crazy imo. Imagine a bird dog sitting in the field or downing a hound enough that they think its ok n just take a break n lie down alone. Ugh a puke in my book. No offense to anyone's dog but this is how strongly I feel about this. What purposes do those words serve gun dogs?

Its useless, if a command is given say heel, or whatever they are trained to never come out of command until realesed. Following commands til release leads right into whoa. Another command never broken until you let em. This is why TV curs irk me. 

Theyre half trained. Make your life easy too. 

They need to know kennel, here, whoa, fetch and drop. 

Fetch n drop can be deleted as dogs are trained to be dogs n know their job. 

oh another pet peeve, dogs w no manners. They oughta stand as you collar them, mind you perhaps w bulging eyes n shaking legs but they better not move til they're released from whoa. 

Did commands for hounds, tally here, tally ho, for beagles, etc etc.

 

ecollars are great but remember something, it's not a torture device, it's a training/reinforcement tool. A great one at that but the dog needs to already know n understand command. 

Do not use before except to break from off game

Edited July 26, 2016 by Bowguy 1

[Doewhacker]

4 minutes ago, Bowguy 1 said:

The reason for the non command is you want absolute the non chasing trash. 

They should associate the shock w the game doing it not you. Try it sometime, shock em off a deer that way n next time they smell one they just ain't going. 

Hounds tend to chase more than bird dogs n once gone the chase is on. Bird dogs come back after a short stint commonly. 

Ive never had a bird dog chase. 

 

Another thing to consider using voice commands, wondering how many guys train "stay"?

Its useless, if a command is given say heel, or whatever they are trained to never come out of command until realesed. Following commands til release leads right into whoa. Another command never broken until you let em. This is why TV curs irk me. 

Theyre half trained. Make your life easy too. 

They need to know kennel, here, whoa, fetch and drop. 

Fetch n drop can be deleted as dogs are trained to be dogs n know their job. 

oh another pet peeve, dogs w no manners. They oughta stand as you collar them, mind you perhaps w bulging eyes n shaking legs but they better not move til they're released from whoa. 

ecollars are great but remember something, it's not a torture device, it's a training/reinforcement tool. A great one at that but the dog needs to already know n understand command. 

Do not use before except to break from off game

AHHH Hounds, totally different ballgame (that I do not train).

 

I agree 100% on simple commands, Sit covers everything and the same goes for all other commands I use. I do chuckle when I see or hear someone giving their dog five commands before it can complete one. All that does is confuse the crap out of the dog and set it up for failure. Another one I find humorous is when guys use foreign languages to command dogs, not because it is different in the filed with other dogs, but because they think its cool and their dog can under stand other languages.

I use the collar on the lowest setting to reinforce whoa, that is why it is called "stimulation", you don't always have to hammer and hack a dog to get what you want. Although I knew a guy that joked he started at the highest setting with his lab and worked his way down.

I have my male trained so well around my bird pens that he automatically returns to heel as we pass. Funny stuff.

[Bowguy 1]

Most of post was about bird dogs, some things transfer over not a ton of commands 

[Uncle Nicky]

I agree with most of what Bowguy says about e-collar training, I used mine to cure my dog of running deer, I wouldn't say a word until she'd seen one and gave chase, then I'd give her a jolt...she'd be back at my side in seconds. She hasn't chased one in a while, I think she's broke, doesn't even seem interested when she sees one out the window. And most of the time all it takes is a beep to reel her back in when she's hunting (she ranges as far as 400 yards, which is what I want), but I do have a GPS unit on mine, mostly for my peace-of-mind. I don't see the harm in teaching the dog sit & stay, mine stays in the house all year long, it's amazing how many commands and words they can learn.

[Doewhacker]

I use sit and down for when I am Goose or Duck hunting. It tells the dog not to move and conceals it better than a standing dog might in the blind or field edge. On top of that getting a dog to properly do a down command tells me my obidience is spot on.

Whoa and sit are different commands used in different situations and if a dog ever sits on whoa it is corrected quickly. I have never had an issue with a dog sitting while on whoa. 

[growalot]

I liked many of these for our daughter had to use one to train her chocolate lab mix...but reading this I sorta feel bad for you guys....training a shepherd is so different...I've trained many  and never had to use electronics...As I said I had a fawn literally jump into Angels mouth and she just looked at me as it recovered and ran away... she walks a pace behind me unless given the release command and won't cross the road with out the OK from me. All of them were trained on hand signals as well. When We had raccoons literally attack, she worked them  to a T  with every command I gave her. Until we (I ) killed it with some well placed blows to the head with a limb. Bear was the best at handling stray dogs just the protect command and he'd have them by the neck with a few good shakes then release on my command...I'd never see those dogs ever again. I remember my Grandfathers hunting dogs ...a bit frustrating...great dogs though. The only other dog I trained that was similar in success was a Gordon Setter I had in college...gave it to a local garage owner,due to time constraints and he said she was the best bird dog he'd ever owned. Alpha.....I never allow them to think I'm not the alpha  I'll never have a dog that will not turn  or lower its gaze when I stare into it's eyes. nor not allow me to reach into it's mouth to take away food.

[Bowguy 1]

Doewacker that makes sense. I shoulda thought of that. Def a good reason n Growalot all dogs are different, some softer some harder than others n even among breeds there's crazy obvious differences in bloodlines. 

If you own enough, especially hot ones, you'll eventually on some need to break em. 

Some guys don't care, for me each dog has its game, my buddy was just recently at a night hunt n the "coon" dog he ran with spent an hour chasing bunnies, beagles if they chase deer can be hunted almost nowhere n it can be dangerous crossing roads, same for bird dogs, pretty embarassing taking some other hunter out n turning your prize dog loose n watching it run behind a white flag. 

All avoidable often by running them w the right dogs or solo, some dogs though are straight up meatheads. I normally would never keep them. 

Had a dog one time name Snuff, she was FC bred n ran good. One day on a hill at my club she was down below running deer. 

She wore a collar just in case as she was only 8-9 months old. I shocked her n she came back. 

a month or so passed, I ran her in the state derby championships.

She made winners pack, then the dogs hit a check, one little hound ran up too far for my liking n started tongueing. Off they went, Snuff started to pack n bounced out. 

The judges were ordering her up as someone yelled deer. They didn't get her n by the end of trail they were using her as the dog to look at if half the hounds were barking. They knew she was honest. 

She only got a third but she ran well n if we were hunting Id have brought her home not been looking 2 towns over tomo for her. 

Sometimes it's a blessing 

Edited July 26, 2016 by Bowguy 1

[Jaeger]

From the sounds of your posts, I'm assuming (risky!!) that you all aclimated your dogs to the collars properly so they did not become collar wise and tested their minimum reaction stimulation levels.

For the newcomer, you can't just put an e-collar (read "TRAINING") collar on a dog and start zapping them, it defeats the purpose and makes them collar wise(they know it's the collar bothering them).  It takes time and patience to properly acclimate the dog to the collar, there is a wealth of information on how to do it, Garmin/Tri-tronic has some on line and in books.

It is a shame when someone ruins a good dog by misuse or misunderstanding of their e-collars.

[Bowguy 1]

9 hours ago, Jaeger said:

From the sounds of your posts, I'm assuming (risky!!) that you all aclimated your dogs to the collars properly so they did not become collar wise and tested their minimum reaction stimulation levels.

For the newcomer, you can't just put an e-collar (read "TRAINING") collar on a dog and start zapping them, it defeats the purpose and makes them collar wise(they know it's the collar bothering them).  It takes time and patience to properly acclimate the dog to the collar, there is a wealth of information on how to do it, Garmin/Tri-tronic has some on line and in books.

It is a shame when someone ruins a good dog by misuse or misunderstanding of their e-collars.

Very good point, it should be known you can't keep it on forever  or you'll wind up infecting skin on neck so it must be done properly