Please correct me...

[growalot]

If I have this wrong...the DEC.wanting to increase harvests and opportunities is:

1. Allowing the youth hunters to use cross bows  during the youth hunt?

          Yet not expanding seniors participation in bow season by allowing them to use cross bows,yet they are the one that spent their hunting careers,as it were,funding the DEC in license sales'.....hmmmm

2.  Rescinding the 2wks doe only in "over run areas" but not doing any thing to increase kills

         By giving out those extra tags early,or allowing cross bows into  all of archery,with bow hunter ed course as a mandatory thing. ( don't argue I won't change my mind)

So this is what I'm seeing right?   Such progress,for all the $ they spend on survey's , studies etc,etc. They really addressed what hunters have said to them....

[stoneam2006]

I wish I could like this more than once....full inclusion xbow would help alot to get more hunters in the woods..either guys who can't pull compound anymore or guys who never could get proficient with a compound...it's a win win for the sport

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[growalot]

Here is my real problem with this...an early Sept. ML season. I believe they are on line to do that over any practical option available first. That said I did say OK To an early  ML season..though after other logical options are tried. Doe only.

[stoneam2006]

Yes I agree if going to allow mz in Sept they need to allow xbows first

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[Buckmaster7600]

I like the idea of an early MZ season more than a full inclusion. An early firearms antler less season will be the most effective method of lowering numbers.


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[Fishon]

Lower the age to 10 for deer hunting. Get the kids involved early. 

[dbHunterNY]

DEC has made some bone head moves but a lot of this has to do with what DEC can and can't do.  A lot of suggestions are legislative and not possible for DEC to do.

[Doc]

10 hours ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

I like the idea of an early MZ season more than a full inclusion. An early firearms antler less season will be the most effective method of lowering numbers.


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All this stuff  is complete nonsense. Until you put an antlerless only day or so into the regular gun season, you will never see any significant change in doe take. Either they are serious about removing does or their not. But let's get real. no matter what you do to bow season, it is firearms in the season designated for them that are the only thing that will make any difference. Anything else is simply window dressing with no real motives that seriously involve population control.

By the way, is their any surprise that these so-called surveys are in favor of trashing the bowseason. The majority of respondents could care less about bowhunting season other than the fact that they might now get a good chance to grab a piece of it.

[Buckmaster7600]

All this stuff  is complete nonsense. Until you put an antlerless only day or so into the regular gun season, you will never see any significant change in doe take. Either they are serious about removing does or their not. But let's get real. no matter what you do to bow season, it is firearms in the season designated for them that are the only thing that will make any difference. Anything else is simply window dressing with no real motives that seriously involve population control.

By the way, is their any surprise that these so-called surveys are in favor of trashing the bowseason. The majority of respondents could care less about bowhunting season other than the fact that they might now get a good chance to grab a piece of it.

I don't agree with that at all. A doe only day during regular season will go over just like the 2 weeks in archery did. Hunters won't hunt those days because they won't want see a buck that they can't shoot!

The county in Ohio where I have my lease doe weekend has 3-4 times more shooting as opening day of regular firearm season. I have never saw numbers but it sure sounds successful to me.


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[G-Man]

For those that think a bow is not an efficient weapon  ohios weekly deer take almost 50% of entire take is archery.. the real question ia how do we get hunters to learn and want  to take excess deer with bow. It's not that they can't kill deer they choose not to the question is why...

http://wildlife.ohiodnr.gov/hunting-trapping-and-shooting-sports/hunting-resources-by-species/deer/deer-harvest-yearly-comparison

[Buckmaster7600]

For those that think a bow is not an efficient weapon  ohios weekly deer take almost 50% of entire take is archery.. the real question ia how do we get hunters to learn and want  to take excess deer with bow. It's not that they can't kill deer they choose not to the question is why...

http://wildlife.ohiodnr.gov/hunting-trapping-and-shooting-sports/hunting-resources-by-species/deer/deer-harvest-yearly-comparison

Not apples to apples,
Ohio has 10days in a 5 months season that allows firearms. And only allows 1 buck. Most serious hunters are hunting the rut 2-3 weeks before gun season.


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[G-Man]

The take is the take, almost 50 /50 you can follow it week to week ,so what your saying if it was only 1 buck guys would shoot doe early?
The point is bows are efficient if hunters choose to shoot!!!

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[G-Man]

Further Ohio can manage it's herd with 10 day gun season, why do week need such a long one.. obviously they use archery as a controlling factor in calculations. But new York bow hunters just sucks and can't manage numbers with bow?

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[stoneam2006]

Further Ohio can manage it's herd with 10 day gun season, why do week need such a long one.. obviously they use archery as a controlling factor in calculations. But new York bow hunters just sucks and can't manage numbers with bow?

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Doesn't Ohio have full inclusion also...it gets more people hunting...how many guys would love to hunt when it's 50 instead of 20 degrees

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[Buckmaster7600]

The take is the take, almost 50 /50 you can follow it week to week ,so what your saying if it was only 1 buck guys would shoot doe early?

The point is bows are efficient if hunters choose to shoot!!!

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No, I'm saying they only have 10 days of gun season and nearly 100 days of bow. In NY it's nearly 50/50 bow to gun days in SZ and 1/5 in NZ. None of their gun seasons are during the main part of the rut when deer are easiest to kill.

Not to mention that comparing Ohio's deer take to ours doesn't work because they can bait. Allow NY to bait and see what the deer take does.

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[G-Man]

Yes but the kill in ohio is broke down weekly.. bow up to their gun season bow is still 50 % of take. So why can't you kill a doe only in 1st 2 weeks of bow? The argument being bow can't control deer number. Obviously they can.and do. The take in October in Ohio is great. . It just come down to bow hunters passing deer in ny. The question is why and how do we change that.

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[Buckmaster7600]

Let's allow baiting and make our gun season 5 days in December and our muzzleloader in 5 days in January and sept 27-feb1 bow and see if we can mirror Ohio's results.

Having hunted Ohio for 7 years now in 3 different counties I have found that the average hunter in Ohio has a very different attitude than NY hunters. I have only spoke to a handful of locals out there that give a crap about shooting a buck most just want to shoot the first 3-4 deer that they see coming to their corn pile. When your only reason to hunt is for meat why wouldn't you be hunting in October when it's 50-60 out, deer will come to the corn pile during daylight hours and you don't have to get cold. I also have only talked to 1 local that used a vertical bow.


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[G-Man]

Look at takes for.Dec 9th. Their gun season has ended take is still over 50 % bow

http://wildlife.ohiodnr.gov/hunting-trapping-and-shooting-sports/hunting-resources-by-species/deer/deer-harvest-yearly-comparison

It's not baiting it's hunter choosing to shoot. At that point season lengths are nearly the same as New york. Archers have taken more buck than gun hunters and yes the doe take is higher he under gun but the actual take shows bow can and are used to control deer numbers. Regardless of bait or not.. these are actually numbers not a calculated take like nys. Our archery take numbers are way below 50% by time gun opens in ny and less than 15% by time 1st week of gun is over in ny..  that is a huge difference and it's not from baiting as baying during gun is legal in ohio as well. 

[Buckmaster7600]

I have looked at all these numbers. If you don't think that having a corn pile 20yds from your stand exponentially increases your success rate with archery equipment then you aren't ever going to understand my points.

I will say this again as I said in my last comment the average hunter in NY has a different mentality on deer hunting than they do in Ohio. Half of the deer hunters I know don't shoot does. "I live in NZ and I'm aware that it makes a big difference." I have yet to meet an Ohio hunter that doesn't shoot does. I have only met a couple Ohio hunters who have ever let a small buck go. Most every NY hunter I know if a trophy hunter. The differences in agendas a vastly different.


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[wolc123]

The biggest difference when comparing Ohio and NY is full inclusion of the crossbow.  Ohio was one of the first states to make that happen. The archery season deer take there nearly equals the gun season take for that reason alone.  That should provide plenty of proof that the crossbow is a very effective tool for controlling antlerless deer while a vertical bow is not.     Here in NY, a small, elitist, selfish group of bow-hunters has been able to prevent full inclusion yet again this season.

The crossbow is far more effective at controlling antlerless deer than a vertical bow because it does not need to be drawn with groups of deer in close.   For killing lone bucks, that advantage is not as great, as one only needs to fool a single set of eyes with the draw.  A lot less time and effort is required to attain lethal accuracy with a crossbow compared to a vertical bow.  Also, the relative silence of the crossbow gives it a significant advantage over the ML.   NY will continue to struggle to get antlerless deer under control in some overpopulated zones until they find a way to get crossbows in at the start of archery season.      

[Buckmaster7600]

The biggest difference when comparing Ohio and NY is full inclusion of the crossbow.  Ohio was one of the first states to make that happen. The archery season deer take there nearly equals the gun season take for that reason alone.  That should provide plenty of proof that the crossbow is a very effective tool for controlling antlerless deer while a vertical bow is not.     Here in NY, a small, elitist, selfish group of bow-hunters has been able to prevent full inclusion yet again this season.

The crossbow is far more effective at controlling antlerless deer than a vertical bow because it does not need to be drawn with groups of deer in close.   For killing lone bucks, that advantage is not as great, as one only needs to fool a single set of eyes with the draw.  A lot less time and effort is required to attain lethal accuracy with a crossbow compared to a vertical bow.  Also, the relative silence of the crossbow gives it a significant advantage over the ML.   NY will continue to struggle to get antlerless deer under control in some overpopulated zones until they find a way to get crossbows in at the start of archery season.      

Do you have any facts once so ever that full inclusion alone is the reason for the equal deer take or are you just using that 1 piece of the puzzle to push your agenda?


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[DirtTime]

3 hours ago, wolc123 said:

The biggest difference when comparing Ohio and NY is full inclusion of the crossbow.  Ohio was one of the first states to make that happen. The archery season deer take there nearly equals the gun season take for that reason alone.  That should provide plenty of proof that the crossbow is a very effective tool for controlling antlerless deer while a vertical bow is not.     Here in NY, a small, elitist, selfish group of bow-hunters has been able to prevent full inclusion yet again this season.

The crossbow is far more effective at controlling antlerless deer than a vertical bow because it does not need to be drawn with groups of deer in close.   For killing lone bucks, that advantage is not as great, as one only needs to fool a single set of eyes with the draw.  A lot less time and effort is required to attain lethal accuracy with a crossbow compared to a vertical bow.  Also, the relative silence of the crossbow gives it a significant advantage over the ML.   NY will continue to struggle to get antlerless deer under control in some overpopulated zones until they find a way to get crossbows in at the start of archery season.      

Sorry, I don't think full inclusion will do all that much. At least not to the extent you seem to think. The not having to draw when you have a group of deer in close issue (  ) is a small one. Many bow hunters do it and have a lot of success.

I am all for full inclusion of the crossbow, as I think It may get more hunters in the woods. I just doubt it will make a higher impact on doe take over all. Many people will still want to shoot an older bigger racked buck over a doe, but will use a crossbow to do it. 

[stoneam2006]

Sorry, I don't think full inclusion will do all that much. At least not to the extent you seem to think. The not having to draw when you have a group of deer in close issue (  ) is a small one. Many bow hunters do it and have a lot of success.

I am all for full inclusion of the crossbow, as I think It may get more hunters in the woods. I just doubt it will make a higher impact on doe take over all. Many people will still want to shoot an older bigger racked buck over a doe, but will use a crossbow to do it. 

I disagree more hunters means more deer take witch means more doe also...I'm pro inclusion big time and think that if they ar3 even considering an early mz season then xbow should come first.

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[Buckmaster7600]

I would like to see deer take separated by season for states like Vermont, New Hampshire or Pennsylvania, states that don't allow baiting and have similarly diverse terrain.


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