Leasing Ruins Conservation

[Tacti_Steve]

Leasing hunting rights ruins conservation.

http://huntingtactical.com/blog/leasing-hunting-rights/

[stoneam2006]

^^^good article^^^^ leasing sucks

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[Core]

Leasing hunting rights ruins conservation.

http://huntingtactical.com/blog/leasing-hunting-rights/

I just came upon this article. Didn't much care for it because let's get real if the author owned that 300 acres he would do what all other land-owning hunters do: keep it to himself. Does it matter if a person is paying a lease for land access or owns the land and puts posted signs up everywhere?

It is easy to say leasing is no good but not everyone owns 100 acres next to orchards and corn fields.

To be fair everything the author said is true. What he failed to point out is that it is also applicable to private land owners. I am surrounded by amazing deer hunting land and nothing but posted signs (I don't blame them though).



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[growalot]

I wonder...How would the DEC know what that guy had on his land ? 300 acres is a big piece of property and the DEC needs permission to enter private lands unless a suspicion of law breaking has occurred. At that they are still suppose to notify the owner...

I had a neighbor falsely report an environmental hazard on our land as a revenge for buying property they thought they had locked up...so walking for several hours with a hazmat specialist and DEC officer taught me a lot..I'm not shy in asking questions... BTW they complimented me on my land management..

Edited August 30, 2016 by growalot

[moog5050]

OK - I understand that you may be upset that you lost the right to hunt the land, but why is leasing any different than limiting who may hunt private lands?  Most landowners don't open the door to everyone and to argue that those that lease are less of a conservationist than those with free access seems like it requires a major assumption.  I don't really see leasing as any different than selectively deciding who the owner lets hunt his/her land, except the owner is paid.  We have exclusive permission on a parcel  that I offered to lease (but the owner refused payment) and kill both bucks and plenty of does.  I would not hunt it any differently if I leased it or owned it frankly.

[adkhunter71]

On 7/21/2016 at 5:15 PM, Tacti_Steve said:

 

Leasing hunting rights ruins conservation.

 

I am sorry Steve, but this sounds like sour grapes to me.  

You're argument that  " 99.9% of the time the land is turned into a big buck property. This leads to overpopulation, especially of Does" just doesn't ring true to me.  Where do you get your numbers from?  How do you have access to everyone who leases land and do you survey them?  

I happen to lease land with a couple of buddies of mine and find your argument to be completely off base in our situation.  Would we like to kill big bucks?  Sure, but that is not the end all be all.   One of my buddies hadn't been able to hunt for the past two years because his job had him living out of the country.  He killed a 1.5 year old 5pt.  He was thrilled and my other buddy and I were thrilled for him.  We killed 4 does last year between the 3 of us.  I killed two of them.  Did I need to kill a big buck to consider last year a success for me?  Absolutely not.  I base last year as a success because I was able to put meat in my freezer, spend some quality time with two of my best friends, and most importantly have fun.  I choose to pay for the right to hunt a landowner's property and he chooses to take my money to help pay his property taxes.  I'd consider that a win win for both of us.

To me, your basis for your argument is no different than the antler restriction crowd in that it is one size fits all approach.  Not everyone has the same quality of property to hunt nor the same amount of time to hunt.  

[DirtTime]

4 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

OK - I understand that you may be upset that you lost the right to hunt the land, but why is leasing any different than limiting who may hunt private lands?  Most landowners don't open the door to everyone and to argue that those that lease are less of a conservationist than those with free access seems like it requires a major assumption.  I don't really see leasing as any different than selectively deciding who the owner lets hunt his/her land, except the owner is paid.  We have exclusive permission on a parcel  that I offered to lease (but the owner refused payment) and kill both bucks and plenty of does.  I would not hunt it any differently if I leased it or owned it frankly.

I kind of agree. Those who have the cash  to lease make it hard for those of us who don't. I wonder how many people said they already have people hunting the land were getting a few dollars. But, who are we to tell anyone what to with their land? 

[stoneam2006]

OK - I understand that you may be upset that you lost the right to hunt the land, but why is leasing any different than limiting who may hunt private lands?  Most landowners don't open the door to everyone and to argue that those that lease are less of a conservationist than those with free access seems like it requires a major assumption.  I don't really see leasing as any different than selectively deciding who the owner lets hunt his/her land, except the owner is paid.  We have exclusive permission on a parcel  that I offered to lease (but the owner refused payment) and kill both bucks and plenty of does.  I would not hunt it any differently if I leased it or owned it frankly.

For me it's not the leasing that bugs me it's the fact that alot of land has now gone toward leasing instead of being able to obtain permission. The state want to control the numbers how about paying some land owners in the problem areas to open up the doors to hunters maybe even a lottery type hunt. Can hunt this farm for the season by wining the lottery. Many of us don't have 1000s to lease land bc city folk come up and throw down big money. Let's make leased land make one year taxable income and see how that fares landowners. Land is being leased up by guys willing to spend way more than the average Joe that may have been hunting it for 30 years...leasing sucks still

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[DirtTime]

6 minutes ago, stoneam2006 said:

 

For me it's not the leasing that bugs me it's the fact that alot of land has now gone toward leasing instead of being able to obtain permission. The state want to control the numbers how about paying some land owners in the problem areas to open up the doors to hunters maybe even a lottery type hunt. Can hunt this farm for the season by wining the lottery. Many of us don't have 1000s to lease land bc city folk come up and throw down big money. Let's make leased land make one year taxable income and see how that fares landowners. Land is being leased up by guys willing to spend way more than the average Joe that may have been hunting it for 30 years...leasing sucks still

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Yep. That's what I just said too.

[Buckmaster7600]

What a pitty party! My family and I own about 400acres and I still have a lease in NY and one in OHIO. Leasing is a great thing for hunters. I can't afford to but my 2 leases but it gives me the opportunity to have the land to myself and to be able to do what I want with it "within the agreement." Without leases many land owners wouldn't be able to afford to own their land.


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[Chef]

For me it's not the leasing that bugs me it's the fact that alot of land has now gone toward leasing instead of being able to obtain permission. The state want to control the numbers how about paying some land owners in the problem areas to open up the doors to hunters maybe even a lottery type hunt. Can hunt this farm for the season by wining the lottery. Many of us don't have 1000s to lease land bc city folk come up and throw down big money. Let's make leased land make one year taxable income and see how that fares landowners. Land is being leased up by guys willing to spend way more than the average Joe that may have been hunting it for 30 years...leasing sucks still

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Why do you people always have to attack the "city folk" just because we have money doesent mean we are out to ruin your simple little country life


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[stoneam2006]

Why do you people always have to attack the "city folk" just because we have money doesent mean we are out to ruin your simple little country life

Bc that big city money does ruin the rest of nys political and economical.

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Bc that big city money does ruin the rest of nys political and economical

[Buckmaster7600]

Steve, maybe the land owner found out you and your father were poachers because your dad filled all your archery tags for you? Maybe the "lease" was an excuse to keep you and your father and your illegal ways off his land?


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[Chef]

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The big city money ruins your economy? You do realize that without that big city money that pays for most of your services the rest of New York would be about as well off as Arkansas

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[stoneam2006]

The big city money ruins your economy? You do realize that without that big city money that pays for most of your services the rest of New York would be about as well off as Arkansas

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And it would still be better than the way it is now...last I checked Arkansas is a free state...I'm not saying all the city folk just the majority of the ones I see are gun blasting fools that shoot once a year the night before the season opens kills or runs off every deer in a half mile radius and then rides there quads around trying to kill the deer that are smart enough to bed down....now I know you are all not like that but the guys I have seen and ran into down here are and it puts a bad face on the rest..

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[Chef]

And it would still be better than the way it is now...last I checked Arkansas is a free state...I'm not saying all the city folk just the majority of the ones I see are gun blasting fools that shoot once a year the night before the season opens kills or runs off every deer in a half mile radius and then rides there quads around trying to kill the deer that are smart enough to bed down....now I know you are all not like that but the guys I have seen and ran into down here are and it puts a bad face on the rest..

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You're correct im not like that but it's not city folk there are lazy idiots no matter where you go, example who are you more likely to see jacking deer in a field at night the city folk who are up for the weekend... Or the local a hole who claims the city folk will steal all his deer if he doesn't


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[stoneam2006]

You're correct im not like that but it's not city folk there are lazy idiots no matter where you go, example who are you more likely to see jacking deer in a field at night the city folk who are up for the weekend... Or the local a hole who claims the city folk will steal all his deer if he doesn't


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The local jack who doesn't have a place to hunt anymore bc the city folk came and paid for all the land...who also uses the deer to supplement his grocery Bill for the year.

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[Chef]

The local jack who doesn't have a place to hunt anymore bc the city folk came and paid for all the land...who also uses the deer to supplement his grocery Bill for the year.

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Again an excuse for a lazy bum, go to state land like everyone else who can't afford to buy or lease and HUNT, don't jack deer in a field.... I myself am
In the process of buying upstate, am I hurting the locals by buying up there or am I helping them with the money my family and friends will now spend it town


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[stoneam2006]

Again an excuse for a lazy bum, go to state land like everyone else who can't afford to buy or lease and HUNT, don't jack deer in a field.... I myself am
In the process of buying upstate, am I hurting the locals by buying up there or am I helping them with the money my family and friends will now spend it town


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We'll only have a very very few state lands down here where I'm at and the little town I'm in some guys barley have the gas or a vehicle reliable enough to get to town let alone a few hrs away for a hunt...the fact is land leases hurt locals more than they help. We are not talking about people buying land we are talking about people closing down local farms by offering big money to hunt them. Lease money should be taxed bc it is income. The state should try and open farms up like I stated above just like they do for public fishing acess...again don't take this personal it's about the guys I have met the guys I have seen I'm sure there are great outdoorsman within the city but those are the ones you don't hear about bc everyone thinks they are just the average guy around town.

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[Chef]

We'll only have a very very few state lands down here where I'm at and the little town I'm in some guys barley have the gas or a vehicle reliable enough to get to town let alone a few hrs away for a hunt...the fact is land leases hurt locals more than they help. We are not talking about people buying land we are talking about people closing down local farms by offering big money to hunt them. Lease money should be taxed bc it is income. The state should try and open farms up like I stated above just like they do for public fishing acess...again don't take this personal it's about the guys I have met the guys I have seen I'm sure there are great outdoorsman within the city but those are the ones you don't hear about bc everyone thinks they are just the average guy around town.

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Unfortunately I'm still going to have to disagree with you we live in a capitalist society not communist Russia.... Your starting to sound like a Bernie Sanders supporter over there


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[Trial153]

Land owners suck because they don't let you hunt for free, hunter that lease suck because they can afford it. City people suck because you think they are better off then you. No gas, no cars, no hunting land ...no jobs. Sounds like some people need to focus more on work and getting their lives in order and less on blaming others for their perceived lack of success.

[stoneam2006]

Unfortunately I'm still going to have to disagree with you we live in a capitalist society not communist Russia.... Your starting to sound like a Bernie Sanders supporter over there


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Unfortunately that is why this state is going to suffer in terms of conservation...eventually the state will bring in drugs to make the deer stop producing or snipers to kill them off in problem areas bc leases have land so tied up...and if the landowners are taking in income to help pay taxes why shouldn't it be taxed...I'm taxed on all my income

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[Chef]

Unfortunately that is why this state is going to suffer in terms of conservation...eventually the state will bring in drugs to make the deer stop producing or snipers to kill them off in problem areas bc leases have land so tied up...and if the landowners are taking in income to help pay taxes why shouldn't it be taxed...I'm taxed on all my income

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They already do these things in parts of westchester and Long Island....I'm
Sure most of those big farms have dmaps that they use in the summer for deer control trust me a few more hunters isn't going to change things on those farms...... FYI I'm just having fun playing devils advocate here


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[DirtTime]

4 minutes ago, Trial153 said:

Land owners suck because they don't let you hunt for free, hunter that lease suck because they can afford it. City people suck because you think they are better off then you. No gas, no cars, no hunting land ...no jobs. Sounds like some people need to focus more on work and getting their lives in order and less on blaming others for their perceived lack of success.

There's almost always hunting land. Sorry to say, many will not allow hunters on their land anymore, and part of that is leasing. I agree with that, I also say it's so and so's land, they can do what they want. NYS has a lot of public land, so a hunter will always find a place. Will they be 100% happy sharing the woods with some of bad hunters out there? Nope. It is what it is.

 

[stoneam2006]

They already do these things in parts of westchester and Long Island....I'm
Sure most of those big farms have dmaps that they use in the summer for deer control trust me a few more hunters isn't going to change things on those farms...... FYI I'm just having fun playing devils advocate here


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Yea I got that awhile back lol...but seriously when you have lived in an area you whole life and watch big city money move in and buy up al the leases it hurts the community. Their needs to be better way or else this state is going to suffer... I also believe that the majority of lease hunters are horn hunters can't prove it but can't prove there not either...personally why would you pay to shoot a 4 point or a doe...most wouldn't but again that's my opinion from what I've seen locally Wich hurts the decs plans on management and cases doe only seasons and other off the wall tactics

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