Longer gun season?

[wdswtr]

13 hours ago, fasteddie said:

Some of the guys that posted on this thread could have been Xerox Managers . I say that because when we had something that worked , some manager would want to "fix" it . Personally , I am fine with what we have now and don't see a need to change anything but ...... what suits my needs doesn't necessarily work for others . 

I like the lengthy Bow Season but don't support Full Inclusion of Crossbows ( even though I bought one this year ) .

We have something that works ..... Leave it alone . 

Lmfao yeah that analogy doesnt just apply to the Xerox managers but some of the brainwashed techs too.  Cant tell ya how many times a tech just had to upgrade software and how many times I had to follow up with reverting to a software that actually worked flawlessly, unlike the new version that has bugs and non compatible patches.  I can relate lol

[Doc]

19 hours ago, Four Season Whitetails said:

Which very well be the reason they change things around. They see less hunters in certain seasons so they add a season that they have hunters telling them they have interest in hunting?  After all they say only a certain number of hunters kill all the deer? They may as well put another tool in the hunters hand that does all the killing!  The guy that goes a time or two and may or may not kill a deer is not the guy they will cater to.  

Well, with all the mucking around changing seasons, and all the nonsense that I read here on how seasons should be shorter, longer, moved here, moved there, I just think that people are thrashing about looking for solutions in all the wrong places. In most cases, as has already been noted, they are looking for solutions to things that aren't really even problems. Nothing is accomplished with the running around in circles and shouting, "Let's just do something ...... anything!" approach to game management. Leave the damn seasons alone!

[hunterdan44]

If every hunter on both sides of the season length argument want to tweak it somehow it's probably just right. My opinion is leave as is and enjoy a pretty long bow and gun season. I still believe winter weather impacts the herd more than any form of hunting. Imho


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[Four Season Whitetail's]

6 hours ago, Doc said:

Well, with all the mucking around changing seasons, and all the nonsense that I read here on how seasons should be shorter, longer, moved here, moved there, I just think that people are thrashing about looking for solutions in all the wrong places. In most cases, as has already been noted, they are looking for solutions to things that aren't really even problems. Nothing is accomplished with the running around in circles and shouting, "Let's just do something ...... anything!" approach to game management. Leave the damn seasons alone!

I would have no problem with the season length......If they moved them around and took guns out of the rut or very minimum have muzzle loaders for the first 7-10 days of the 3rd Saturday opener.

 

[Doc]

Just leave the damned seasons alone! Its all fine the way it is. I know everyone thinks they have the absolutely fool proof pet system of seasons that are guaranteed to fill the woods with record book deer behind every tree, but believe me....... You don't.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

9 minutes ago, Doc said:

Just leave the damned seasons alone! Its all fine the way it is. I know everyone thinks they have the absolutely fool proof pet system of seasons that are guaranteed to fill the woods with record book deer behind every tree, but believe me....... You don't.

I guess it will all come down to what hunters scream the loudest and as you have seen the biggest crowd is for Crossbow full inclusion and they want bigger trophy deer to hunt. That is what will get things changed up in Ny to make it a more hunter friendly destination for in and out of state hunters.

Come to the park opening weekend and look at all the New Hamp's and Vermont plate frames. Why you ask???  Ar and big deer..Thats what most hunters want in todays world........

[46rkl]

I trust the professionals that we employ through the DEC to use the best science available to determine how best to manage our deer herd. I remember in the 70's when it took four hunters to apply for one doe tag. Compared to today...4 doe tags for one hunter!

i fully realize that there is always going to be political influence on decisions like specific weapon/ season lengths and that every option can be considered but if you want to influence policy, try joining your local sportsmens club and amplifying your voice thru the organizations that have at least some voice at the decision-making level. 

Again, things are so much better than a few decades ago, enjoy this golden age!

[Doc]

13 hours ago, Four Season Whitetails said:

I guess it will all come down to what hunters scream the loudest and as you have seen the biggest crowd is for Crossbow full inclusion and they want bigger trophy deer to hunt. That is what will get things changed up in Ny to make it a more hunter friendly destination for in and out of state hunters.

Come to the park opening weekend and look at all the New Hamp's and Vermont plate frames. Why you ask???  Ar and big deer..Thats what most hunters want in todays world........

Unfortunately you are more right than wrong. Game management has become an exercise in reacting to those that throw the biggest tantrum. They reflect the fact that they report to the governor, and being a political entity, must do what is politically acceptable, biological management principles be damned. It kind of makes you wonder why they go to all the effort and expense of hiring trained individuals to work game management issues when all they really need any more is poll takers.

[nyantler]

It wouldn't really matter what the DEC did with season lengths or bag limits at this point... most of what goes on is a direct result of the actions of the hunter. A good example would be the guy that says the season is too long and the deer population is taking a big hit... yet he continues to fill 3-4 tags every year. Or the guy that whines of the herd being too big, but is against killing a doe or advocates for a 1 buck only season. Usually when someone becomes adamant about changing something it's because it isn't working for them personally and they want to change things to make the game a bit easier to play for them... most don't really care about the overall conservation impact, just the personal impact on themselves. The answer to solving conservation problems is really easy when there is full understanding and cooperation from all hunters... the real problem is that for most hunters (me included) their is the personal experience element that make things much more complicated and tends to mucks up the whole works. The proof can be seen in just the number of different opinions offered in this thread alone.

[ikaravias1]

Season is fine. Some years you catch some years you don't. A lot of guys expect to catch and see deer every time they go out. If that was the case it would not be called hunting. I must have spent a good 10 weekends hunting for a total of one buck.

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[wolc123]

1 hour ago, ikaravias1 said:

Season is fine. Some years you catch some years you don't. A lot of guys expect to catch and see deer every time they go out. If that was the case it would not be called hunting. I must have spent a good 10 weekends hunting for a total of one buck.

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You are mostly right.  The only little tweak we need is full inclusion of the cross-bow.    I spent about the same number of weekends out there and had deer in range on all but the last two.   We were able to harvest enough deer this year to fill my freezers as well as those of friends, neighbors, and extended family members.   That crossbow inclusion would have resulted in two more DMP's filled for donation to the homeless folks.   Instead, there are still way too many deer around here (based on all the tracks I just saw out on the snow having just returned from a squirrel hunt), and some folks who will be a little hungrier than they would otherwise be this winter.   

[nodeerhere]

On December 25, 2016 at 3:41 AM, Doc said:

Well, with all the mucking around changing seasons, and all the nonsense that I read here on how seasons should be shorter, longer, moved here, moved there, I just think that people are thrashing about looking for solutions in all the wrong places. In most cases, as has already been noted, they are looking for solutions to things that aren't really even problems. Nothing is accomplished with the running around in circles and shouting, "Let's just do something ...... anything!" approach to game management. Leave the damn seasons alone!

U filled ur freezer and ur friends! I mean how many deer do u want to kill? This is exactly why we don't need people like u with a crossbow in the woods! Just so u are aware my kids would also like to enjoy this sport one day!! I shot 3 deer all season and let many walk because my freezer was full. Holy cow man! 

[lungshot1971]

Leave the seasons alone! If anything maybe a push for a winter bow season starting Jan 1 for places with deer overpopulation and maybe a better system for hunters to contact these landowners in problem areas


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[Doc]

On ‎12‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 1:07 PM, nodeerhere said:

U filled ur freezer and ur friends! I mean how many deer do u want to kill? This is exactly why we don't need people like u with a crossbow in the woods! Just so u are aware my kids would also like to enjoy this sport one day!! I shot 3 deer all season and let many walk because my freezer was full. Holy cow man! 

Fear not! You aren't likely to see me running around with a  crossbow in the woods......lol. I am completely confused as to what you are talking about. My entire season take was exactly 1 doe. My gosh, you took 3 deer? What a game-hog ..... lol.

[growalot]

He quoted the wrong person.....Lol that post must of really rattled his cage....

[growalot]

There are too many of you that grew up in the eighties playing "T Ball"...Everyone's a winner Crap...No in sports not everyone is meant to be a winner....They should have hung the mentally challenged persons that came up with that by their thumbs for a few days. then knee capped the first to embrace the idea.

[wolc123]

47 minutes ago, growalot said:

He quoted the wrong person.....Lol that post must of really rattled his cage....

I was his real target and the one who rattled his cage, causing the breakdown.  His (and others) selfish, elitist arguments against the crossbow are built on lies, which always lead to self-destruction.  Sorry you got caught in the crossfire Doc.  

By the way, I only killed four deer this season (I transferred one DMP to a friend), and the local area (zone 9F) is still badly overrun with deer.   My cage is going to be rattled if I hit one with my car, driving back and forth to work, and that anger will be directed at those who are "holding the line" against the crossbow.   

[growalot]

In 3 years after their inclusion you'll be back complaining you didn't see any deer....I'll be sitting back with a smile saying...Well they got what they wanted...hhhmmmm

ps...I'm not saying it will be due to a mass kill off...but a combo of increased kills with deer pattern changes..so don't jump on that statement

Edited January 2, 2017 by growalot

[Sharpshooter]

To the person claiming that Nebraska has a 4 month long rifle season (or any weapon season), that is just inaccurate. Perhaps your brother lives in a special region or something, but their statewide rifle season is 9 days. I have hunted there many times. The states with the best deer hunting have shorter gun seasons. 

Additionally, the argument that if any season should be shorter, it should be bow season, is illogical. I know Stubby is trying to point out a contradiction in bowhunters' claims - Deer in bow season move more, so it is easier to kill them, and since deer go nocturnal after opening of gun, then it is harder in late gun season, therefore a greater benefit would be to shorten the bow season (when it is easier to kill deer). This argument completely ignores a few basic realities. First, it is obviously considerably easier to kill a deer with a gun compared to a bow. Second, far more hunters participate in gun season. Because of these two things, way more hunters with a far more lethal weapon, even if deer tend to move less, more deer will be killed in a gun season. Additionally, if you are an advocate for a more balanced deer herd and letting young bucks grow, as I am, a shorter gun season is obviously one way to go about that. Some deer do go nocturnal after the gun opener, but young bucks and fawns continue to move, so those are the ones to get shot. Also, at least where I hunt, people shoot at deer without the faintest idea of what they are shooting at. That is no way to manage a deer herd.

[stubby68]

1 hour ago, Sharpshooter said:

To the person claiming that Nebraska has a 4 month long rifle season (or any weapon season), that is just inaccurate. Perhaps your brother lives in a special region or something, but their statewide rifle season is 9 days. I have hunted there many times. The states with the best deer hunting have shorter gun seasons. 

Additionally, the argument that if any season should be shorter, it should be bow season, is illogical. I know Stubby is trying to point out a contradiction in bowhunters' claims - Deer in bow season move more, so it is easier to kill them, and since deer go nocturnal after opening of gun, then it is harder in late gun season, therefore a greater benefit would be to shorten the bow season (when it is easier to kill deer). This argument completely ignores a few basic realities. First, it is obviously considerably easier to kill a deer with a gun compared to a bow. Second, far more hunters participate in gun season. Because of these two things, way more hunters with a far more lethal weapon, even if deer tend to move less, more deer will be killed in a gun season. Additionally, if you are an advocate for a more balanced deer herd and letting young bucks grow, as I am, a shorter gun season is obviously one way to go about that. Some deer do go nocturnal after the gun opener, but young bucks and fawns continue to move, so those are the ones to get shot. Also, at least where I hunt, people shoot at deer without the faintest idea of what they are shooting at. That is no way to manage a deer herd.

          My brother lives just east of Lincoln . He started hunting september. He hunted with a riffle bow or muzzle loader every day. It was which ever weapon he chose to use. Some days he would use one in the am an a different one in pm. He has lived there for 10 years hunted like that every season. Are some areas bow , muzzel,or riffle only yea. But in one area you can be using a gun while a guy in another area uses a bow. I am not saying you are wrong I just know what he hunts with and when and that he hunts all over the state. He might only hunt in special areas where this is allowed I never asked .only know he hunts a lot of the state.

          As for the shorter bow season. I was simply stating what bow hunters have already said in this and other threads. They see more deer during bow season. They are calm easy to pattern the bigger bucks are out during the day. When gun season starts the deer are nervous, fewer to be seen and instantly become night stalkers. Again repeating what bow hunters have said. Less pressure during bow season. Using those statements one would conclude that deer are harder to kill during gun season being there are fewer to be seen during hunting hours. I was responding to the statement that gun hunters do not need as much time to kill a deer. If the are fewer to be seen in hunting hours and they are all nervous then that makes them harder to kill right? Add to that the colder Temps that gun hunters deal with. I bow hunted for many years never had a problem seeing nor killing deer . Warm weather and calm predictable deer especially the bucks that time of year never made for a chalange. I always said I was going to kill something. Never thought I might not get anything. In fact it wasn't  until me people started bone hunting and found out that bucks were easier to kill early that I started hearing people say how hard and challenging  bow hunting was. Bow hunters s a year they like the challenge so why do they need a special season to make sure they get an award. Warmer weather calm deer. Easy reward. Want a challenge try bow hunting while everyone around you is using a gun. And I mean in the same woods not private land where guys 2 plots are gun hunting and you are all alone on 40 acres with maybe only one other hunter both using a gun. 

         I know what you are thinking and no I do not want to hunt with guns during October. I do not even like hunting during November if temps are above 30. If it is not cold and deer are not hard to find it is not hunting.

                  You want to manage a deer heard stop shooting only big old bucks and take some doe and a few little bucks. The heard needs a balance of young old and bucks and does. Not just all young bucks and lots of doe.

Edited January 14, 2017 by stubby68
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[Sharpshooter]

Yea, I am not 100% sure on all of Nebraska's specialty regulations, but I do know for a fact that their statewide rifle season runs for 9 days in the middle of November, and outside of that (again, as a statewide matter), you aren't permitted to use a rifle (except in late muzzy). I think a survey of states with the best deer hunting, including NE, will show that a shorter gun season is pretty common. 

http://outdoornebraska.gov/huntingseasons/

As for your statements regarding bow season and bow hunters. Yes, I realize you were trying to use past statements made to come to the conclusion that it is easier to kill a deer during bow season. I just disagree with that conclusion. Yes, deer move more naturally during the bow season and are generally less pressured. I don't believe this fact alone makes it easier to kill a deer with a weapon with an effective range of about 30 yards v. one that can shoot over 200 yards. It is this difference in weapon that makes bow hunting a challenge, regardless of deer behavior. I could have nice deer walking by me at 50 yards all day long during bow, but wont kill them. During gun, any person, without practice or skill whatsoever could kill that deer no problem. So while you may see less deer during gun, you ability to kill them is much higher. But I would agree that someone looking for the ultimate challenge would bow hunt during gun (something I have done before). However, considering how limited a bow is in its range, without a special bow season, very few bow hunters would be successful. 

That being said, the topic was with regard to whether to shorten a season. My point was that, despite the fact that deer are more pressured and move less during gun season, shortening the gun season would still have the greater impact on deer harvest than shortening the bow season (which you argue is a time when it is easier to kill a deer). More people gun hunt, and it is easier to kill a deer you do see with a gun, so even if fewer deer are seen, more are killed on aggregate. Also, I'll agree that herd management includes taking a certain number of doe. I don't believe that there is a herd management benefit to taking young bucks, especially considering how people, at least where I hunt, shoot everything they see with the gun (so plenty of young deer get killed). 

[Four Season Whitetail's]

If one was to limit himself to only shooting big,mature great scoring whitetails one would not not be so quick to say its so easy to kill a deer in any bow season. But one seems to keep preaching how easy it is.When Does and baby bucks are what fills the tag i guess it would be pretty simple with any kind of a herd.

[stubby68]

10 hours ago, Four Season Whitetails said:

If one was to limit himself to only shooting big,mature great scoring whitetails one would not not be so quick to say its so easy to kill a deer in any bow season. But one seems to keep preaching how easy it is.When Does and baby bucks are what fills the tag i guess it would be pretty simple with any kind of a herd.

             Weven were having a nice conversations. Why do you have to try to start an arguement? Why don't you put up a few pics of the huge old bucks you shoot. Only time I ever seen anything from you was my first post here ever. You posted a pic of deer that you guys got at the park to show what great bucks you get down there. Funny part was the pics of deer I posted in that thread were all of older and bigger deer then any in your pic. You keep talking about getting big old trophy bucks yet never a pic. They must be really hard to find since you never have pics of them. I have said many times  hunt for meat only yet still have posted more pics of good bucks then I have seen you post. Do you ever actually get off you trophy farm? 

      As I said we were having a nice talk no calling each other out ,name calling or anything kind of an arguement. Why try to start something. Have you been hanging out with downtown dipstick?

[Four Season Whitetail's]

17 minutes ago, stubby68 said:

             Weven were having a nice conversations. Why do you have to try to start an arguement? Why don't you put up a few pics of the huge old bucks you shoot. Only time I ever seen anything from you was my first post here ever. You posted a pic of deer that you guys got at the park to show what great bucks you get down there. Funny part was the pics of deer I posted in that thread were all of older and bigger deer then any in your pic. You keep talking about getting big old trophy bucks yet never a pic. They must be really hard to find since you never have pics of them. I have said many times  hunt for meat only yet still have posted more pics of good bucks then I have seen you post. Do you ever actually get off you trophy farm? 

      As I said we were having a nice talk no calling each other out ,name calling or anything kind of an arguement. Why try to start something. Have you been hanging out with downtown dipstick?

Lol...Really.. Those same pics you put up of bucks shot 10 years ago with the hair and skin dried to the skull Big?  The 4-5 other guys on this site that hunt around me and converse with me have seen a pile of the bucks that come out of that area to our group. Between our group we all average a book buck every 3 years with our bows. Great hunters in a rough area with our bows and you keep running on about how easy bow hunting is...I call Bullshit!! Plain and simple. I will give ya the part that your little 80-90 inch bucks are pretty easy to kill in any season including bow. 

I dont believe a quoted anyone or put any names on my post....But if the shoe fits!

[BizCT]

I vote for full inclusion of xbow and open archery season 9/15 so we get a shot at velvet bucks like Connecticut


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