food plots Observations and thoughts:What you can do

[Berniez]

Folks,

This morning I had 27 deer consuming what is left of a 2.5 acre standing soybean field.  Attached are 2 of the 4 bucks taken off the property this year. It’s a brag but it’s also the result of years of hard work and finally getting the right combination of crops and cover. I want to help other landowners who really want to “grow them big” and don’t have a lot of money. While I may be a newbie on this sight I have been planting food plot/managing my property for the past 40 years. I have probably spent more time, energy and money doing these projects than 95% of anybody on this list. I have had some great success and spectacular failures.  (The first 25 years of owning the property was one of great frugality as I was raising kids and trying to do what I could on a very limited budget. So before you spend$$$$ take advice, ask questions. I say this because after trying every cockamamie food from beets, radishes, rape, turnips, triticale, oats, field peas, mangrels, comfrey, to clover beans and corn..etc…I know just how much hype is just that hype. As for gear needed?.I have done stuff with a gravely walk behind  with a chain link fence to an 80 HP diesel(with the same chain link fence) so you can get stuff done... you just need to understand what your limits are in time and money. 

About once a week or so I am going to offer my observations and thoughts on the various ideas posted.  Feel free to question, condemn or agree with what I postulate.

Why listen to me? MY property has consistently produced good deer.  This year we nailed a buck scoring 152.  After the season we still have 7 different antlered bucks still walking around.  I have 85 acres and am surrounded by neighbors whose motto is “If it’s brown it’s down!”  They shoot the first legal buck they see and do not understand why I have a 9, two 8’s and a broken rack 10 still walking around after the season. So in spite of neighbors you can harvest good deer you just need to work on it. Make plans (multiple) because what others do on their property affects what happens on yours.

I am not trying to pontificate but want to let others know what has worked for me. Anybody is welcomed to contact me at [email protected] and come by the property for a visit (off I88 in Otsego county) I will be happy to answer questions show you the what, how and why I did things.  I am trying to give something back to this great sport before I am too old to pass on some knowledge….and while it’s all fun…. you don’t have to make the same mistakes I did in time and money.

Good luck and happy hunting

Next installment will be: “Stop or hold” it’s your choice

[stubborn1VT]

It's always nice to hear other people's experiences.  While there's no single "right" answer to plots and management, it would be great to learn from somebody else's mistakes.  

I look forward to reading your posts.

[wolc123]

It is interesting to hear what works for other folks.  I tried spring-planted soybeans two years ago, and they did not work out so well.   When they first sprouted, they attracted lots of does, prior to and during fawning season, which in turn attracted coyotes.  A momma coyote made a den in a topsoil pile on the edge of the soybean field, leaving a nice little pile of fawn skulls at the entrance.   By the time soybeans ripened and browned up thru hunting season,  I ended up with a deer-free zone.  They seemed to loose all attraction to the deer at that time but I am sure that the coyotes moving in did not help with that either.

The primary reason I hunt deer is to provide meat for my family, and when it comes to that, nothing comes close to the effectiveness of corn.   We had our best year in a long time last season, with the cost of boneless venison, taken from and near 4 acres of corn plots, coming in at less than $1.00 per pound, after subtracting all input costs.   The "secret-weapon" that the corn provides is the cover, in addition to all them carbs, just when the deer need them most.  Nothing holds deer on my land during the daylight hours of hunting season, like standing corn.

 The key to getting the most bang for the buck out of limited acreage of corn is getting rid of all the coons.  Fortunately, they are about the easiest furbearer there is to trap.   If they are causing damage (including to food-plots), NY state regs allow them to be killed before the opening of trapping season, by landowners without a permit.  It is recommended that the carcasses be burried or burned at that time.   They make great fertilizer for apple trees.   After trapping season opens, I just toss them out in the fields to feed the buzzards.  The furs are just about worthless in today's market.  I also obtain free corn seed from local farmers, plant mostly just on old clover plots (saves nitrogen), and use a modern 4wd, turbocharged tier-3 diesel tractor for most of the tillage.   The planting is done with a row planter, which allows minimal usage of fertilizer and herbicide.   All that adds up to keep costs low, to obtain high-yielding corn plots.  

Deer by themselves are very efficient users of corn,  always consuming a whole ear before moving on to the next one.  Without trapping, the combination of coons and wild turkey will wipe out small plots in short order, leaving nothing left by hunting season.   Turkeys don't bother the corn too much without the coons first bringing the ears down to the ground.  The coons will bring down a bunch every night, eating just the small tender stuff on the end of one ear before bringing down the next one.    A little cat food in the bottom of beer-can style "dog-proof" traps, or box traps, baited with a peanut butter coated marshmellow, will allow for the effective eradication of the coons and allow a small corn plot to keep pulling in deer throughout hunting season.

I can understand why soybeans would be good if antlers were your primary motivation.    They provide protein, which is good for antler growth.   I am far more concerned with providing protein for my family, than I am with providing it for deer (or coyotes), which is why I will stick with corn as my primary spring-planted foodplot.    

 

Edited February 11, 2017 by wolc123

[Otto]

I'll be following this topic.  Always something to learn from others experiences, especially their failures.  Thanks for sharing yours.

[stubborn1VT]

Wolc,

Soybeans are good because they feed deer more months of the year.  Corn is great, but generally expensive and takes alot out of the soil.  I don't see how growing soybeans equates to wanting big racks.  Feeding them more months should equal more meat.  The heaviest bucks taken in my area were in spots with beans and no corn at all.  I get that you had a bad experience with soybeans, but your logic baffles me.  

[ATbuckhunter]

9 hours ago, stubborn1VT said:

Wolc,

Soybeans are good because they feed deer more months of the year.  Corn is great, but generally expensive and takes alot out of the soil.  I don't see how growing soybeans equates to wanting big racks.  Feeding them more months should equal more meat.  The heaviest bucks taken in my area were in spots with beans and no corn at all.  I get that you had a bad experience with soybeans, but your logic baffles me.  

Never heard of what wolc is talking about, but I know many people who have bad experiences with soybeans, even when it gets cold. Some herds don't like eating the pods. Usually very good while green though. 

[stubborn1VT]

They don't eat the pods when they "turn" but I've never heard of deer not eating them before or after.  I'm guessing all those Midwestern deer haven't heard of it either.

[wolc123]

A big problem with spring-planted soybeans is that their attractiveness to deer is usually the lowest during hunting season, especially the early-archery part.   After gun season, when there are not many other options, the deer will definitely eat them.  I have discovered a good use for soybeans though.  I add some to a late-summer planted mix of winter wheat and white clover.  Soybean seeds don't store well, and it is always easy to score free leftovers at the end of normal spring planting season.  Get the ground worked up, broadcast the wheat and the soybeans, then cultipack.  Next, broadcast the clover, then cultipack again, 90 degrees from the first direction.  

There is not much that draws deer better than green, sprouting soybeans, so this gives you that attraction at the start of archery season.  That is the best time to kill the deer, bucks in particular, before they loose body-mass by stress thru the rut.   Those soybeans get the deer into the plots, and the wheat holds them there thru the winter and early spring.   The wheat can be mowed off the next year, before it goes to seed, and the white clover will give 3-5 more years of good attraction with just a mowing or two per season.  

I don't care where the deer are before hunting season, and I always like 4-5 of them to be in my freezer after.  Nothing keeps them around by day during hunting season and makes that happen like standing corn (carbs + cover = daytime action).  Having that soybean-wheat mix, clover, and brassicas around keeps them from running off at night.

As far as corn being expensive, that is only if you try and force it.  You can get high yield year after year, on the same ground, by constantly upping your nitrogen which acidifies the soil requiring more and more lime.  Chasing your tail like that can definitely get expensive and is tough on the soil.   The way around that is to get most of the nitrogen you need, for moderate yield, by rotating the corn with clover (3-5 years clover followed by a year of corn).  If you do that, you can get by with just a light application of starter fertilizer, applied with a row-planter.  A row planter also minimizes seed and herbicide usage, further reducing input cost.

One other factor to consider is that moderately yielding corn, with some weeds, is cheaper to grow and better yet, is more attractive to deer than clean, high-yielding corn.   Deer like some variety, and the "weeds" provide that.   I let grassy areas develop in my corn plots by going "wide" with the planter in some areas, and by spraying the roundup only on the rows.   Remember those spots, and still-hunt into the wind to them during late archery season.  

I measure the effectiveness of foodplots by determining the cost of boneless venison per pound after subtracting input costs (fuel, fertilizer, herbicide, seed).  I aim to keep it under $1.00 per pound and am almost always able to do that when I have good corn plots.  I only count the deer taken in or adjacent to the foodplots in making that calculation.         

[ATbuckhunter]

48 minutes ago, stubborn1VT said:

They don't eat the pods when they "turn" but I've never heard of deer not eating them before or after.  I'm guessing all those Midwestern deer haven't heard of it either.

I always was told they stop hitting them when they turn, but hit the pods in the winter time

[stubborn1VT]

Corn may be cheap for you, but I would say that's the exception, not the rule.  I've farmed for years and can't think of any corn that was cheap to grow.  I agree with what you're saying about a plot with some weeds, but you're starting your calculations with free seed, an ag tractor and a row planter.  Most people don't have that, or access to it.  You've got a good system that works for you, but I don't see how it applies to most folks.  I just believe that it's easier to broadcast soybeans and get results.  They take less input and add nitrogen.

 I know corn draws and holds deer, but I can't figure how to plant acres of corn in an easy or economical way.  

[wolc123]

Cheap easy corn tips: 

Having 3-5 acres of clover for every acre of corn is a good place to start.  The clover comes back strong on its own in the nitrogen-depleted soil, the year after the corn,  if you only apply roundup (and fertilizer) on the rows of corn.  I use cultivators to take out most of the weeds between the corn rows.  I have a spot sprayer mounted on the side of my one-row cultivator tractor (to spray the rows) so the cultivating and roundup spraying gets done in a single pass.  

Getting free corn seed is easy if you make friends with farmers and offer to clean out their big planters at the end of planting season.  Properly stored, I have noticed no drop in germination of corn seed up to 5 years old (don't try that with soybeans).  

The row planter with fertilizer applicators is definitely a big key to keeping input costs down.  I paid $175 for my JD 246 corn planter about 20 years ago and it has paid for itself many times over.   The guy's who are broadcasting seed and/or fertilizer , or boom-spraying herbicide are at a big disadvantage for sure.

For quite a few years, fuel was my biggest input cost, but off-road diesel was way down last year.   My meat cost approached .50 cents per pound, chiefly as a result of that, and some very effective raccoon eradication.  We were able to take 6 deer, which included (2) 2-1/2 year old bucks, a 1-1/2 year old buck, a 6 month old buck, and (2) mature does, in and around 4 acres of corn.  If fuel prices reach the stratosphere again, a no-till planter might be effective.   Shallow tillage (4-6" deep) and a conventional planter works very well at today's fuel prices.  

[stubborn1VT]

I personally don't know a single person that is planting 3-5 acres of anything for deer.  I have seen drop in germination of older corn seed.  I have seen good germination of soybeans after 3 years.  You got a deal on a corn planter.  No everyone has a tractor.  I know what you're saying about crop rotation and cultivating vs spraying, but you're talking about a lot of plots, land, equipment and input.  You can explain your cost per lb of boneless venison all you want, but I don't buy it.  You're farming, not food plotting.  I have farmed most of my life, and I couldn't begin to justify your inputs for deer.  Did you buy your tractor for $175 too?

Edited February 14, 2017 by stubborn1VT
clarification

[wolc123]

My family raised beef cattle on our farm since the Civil war days.   I had a lot of the equipment (and cleared land) left over from that.  Tractors are necessary for property maintenance, and I do not include their costs in my calculations.  We use 6 tractors on roughly 100 acres, which includes our farm and my parents. I will admit that my largest tractor cost more than our house, but my wife made me spend more on her engagement ring than the cultivator tractor that I bought while we were dating.  

The best thing about "farming" for deer, compared to for domestic livestock, is that the deer take care of themselves when I am not around.  No vets, no fighting the weather to get in a harvest, no frozen water in the winter.  A close second would be that the wild "organic" meat is healthier than the domestic stuff.  If you treat it right and cook it right, it can also taste as good or better.        

[growalot]

Stubborn,

He's obviously a farmer,but it can be done and without a lot of equipment..I started out without a big tractor and disc doing it. Also you don't have to have acres of corn,acres of beans. I started having to post picture after picture because I was called a liar for years before I did. Pictures do not lie. Corn,8 bucks a bag at tractor supply broad casted ,and yes when I first started tilled not disced in....Grain sorghum was easier but more expensive....Cover cropping ,strip planting, make having half acre plots of particular species work. It just takes more work and TIme...So to the ...you won't gets,you can't do' s, that's impossibles out there..I have and will continue to call BS on. Anything is possible with planning,time and yes work.

Edited February 14, 2017 by growalot

[stubborn1VT]

Wolcs suggestions are good.  He has lots of experience and a good approach.  I'm not saying he can't grow corn cheap, or you for that matter.  I'm saying most people cannot.  We can benefit from both of your experience though.  I just think that your average food plotter isn't going to get good results.  

Farming for deer works, and they do take care of themselves when the corn isn't ripe.  I like that comparison, as I've dealt with vets, frozen water, and weather myself.  I totally agree on wild meat .  The only red meat in our house is venison or beef that my brother raised.  He runs 6 tractors on 220 acres.  I'm jealous of the land you have cultivate!  I admit that I would plant a bunch of corn if I had the ground to do it on.  I will do a 1/4 acre here at home, after this year's beans and before the following year's clover.  

Sure, anything can be done with enough work.  I think you may underestimate the degree of difficulty and the overall inputs though.  Not everyone has the land, equipment, know-how, money, and time.  My original point was that I believe there are easier options.

[growalot]

I Totally agree and liked Wolc's analogy as well. Though I still believe an average plotter can grow great corn from an $8 bag of feed seed. As for beans and deer..they actually can have a negative impact. Mine did a couple of years ago. Fantastic for camera footage and summer buck sightings not for hunting. The buck changed their summer Bachelor range. Displaced my summer fawn rearing doe. Then in the fall left to go find them. I still plant small pockets and in mixed plots.. I will never go with solid areas of them again, that lesson learned. There's always cheaper and way easier draws out there. Planting a field of mast trees is one. It depends on whether your doing this for just one or many reasons. Tons of land isn't needed either. Our property is several contiguous pieces. They range from 9.5 through 18.3/4 up to 20.5.  Out of the 4 acres (Oracle?!) I plant on 2 and another is just trail planting. So it's maybe a total 3 acres on 36,out of a total 73. Though in all fairness I'm the only one with 200 red oak,,and the variety of soft mast trees and shrub.

Now reading the above,I hope one thing stood out. How deer react. Not all deer in all areas react the same. Now that goes against what guys have been taught. It is fact. Even on small parcels with small planted areas plopped in the middle of 100's of acres of ag. fields. Do something that changes a herds dynamics ,the reason for using your property and you change your hunting results. Until that spring of beans..I was  fawning drop and nursery. Rarely saw buck until fall. I provide secure interior wood lot food to raise growing fawn.

So when measuring success and failures in this game of ours many considerations need to be had to really succeed.

LOL I typed 4 words wrong in that on the Kindle,my mistake...It didn't pick any of them..I typed acre correctly, I know, and it changed it to Oracle...sometimes it makes me smile, mostly not.

Edited February 14, 2017 by growalot

[wolc123]

I agree with the importance of mast trees and cover. It is not all about foodplots. In addition to growing corn, two improvements I have been working towards on our home farm are more brushy cover (by removing some less productive ground from crop production) and more acorns.  The mature woodlot at the back is only 5 acres and it is currently about 50% ash, 25% maple and 25% oak.   We heat our house with wood and have been cutting only ash for the last 5 years, since the emerald ash borer scare started.  I would like to have 50% oaks in the woods and the borer and continued ash harvest should help us get there within the next 5 years.    Outside the woodlot, there is also many smaller oaks in the old hedge rows between the small (2-5 acre) fields and I am trying to free them up from ash, poplar, and maple competition.  It seems like the only thing the deer like better than standing corn is white oak acorns when they are falling.  

My parents farm is about double the acreage (mostly hardwoods but few oaks).  It is 15 miles away, which makes it a lot tougher for me to get improvements done on.   We have not planted corn there in quire a few years. The last time I planted it there the grey squirrels got most of it (I kill 10 of those there for every 1 at home) .  All the foodplots over there lately have been clover, wheat, soybeans and brassicas.  I hunt deer there as much as at home, but over the last 10 years, I have killed 4 times as many at home.  The reason for that comes primarily down to one thing, the availability of standing corn.     

Edited February 16, 2017 by wolc123