It really makes me wonder

[Nomad]

The Rompola thread got me thinking about how many fakes and illegal mounts are out there ? My guess is a fair percentage of  mounts are taken illegally. Heres why I feel this . A couple months back in one of the NRA magazines there was a story of some game cops who opened a fake taxadermy shop. 50 % of the heads brought in were found to be taken illegally ! Now did they spread the word that this new shop "did not ask questions" to bring in the poachers ? they did not say but 50 % !

Then there are the almost monthly stories of guys getting busted with walls full of large heads all taken on areas closed to hunting and often out of season as well.

We had bucks shot( found them with skull plates sawed off ) with rifles on our posted land before the start of bow season, after talking with and working with the D.E.C cops found out its really common. " Saw him all summer, then just before season started and he just disappeared ! " Ya he's on your neighbors basement wall......

I've seen stories in the Democrat and Chronicle ( Roch. paper) of bucks taken by known outlaws. Guys who's family's i know and they break some game laws ,yet they Refuse to hunt with him...... one sheriff I know went nuts when he saw one of the stories as he has had many run in's with that guy.

The longer I live,the more guys I know, the more I learn, the less I believe . "

[First-light]

I walked into a pawn shop/antique store in Watkins Glenn years ago. In a room there were about 6-8 mounts of some beautiful Whitetail deer. Thinking back these deer had to score well above 160. I remember reading a plaque under one of the bucks stating the date and time and shooter. Were these real? They looked real but I always questioned how this shop ended up these great mounts. They were all for sale, maybe replicas I'll never know.

[wooly]

Lots of shady things go on at pawn shops Burt. The authenticity needs to be questioned to a point, but when a dealer finds a market for something he can push 2x's or 3x's the cost....well, that's what he does for a buck... and caution is thrown to the wind far as legality goes. I can't fault them in that regaurd as much as the seller for not doing their homework. I fell victim that myself.

My guess is most mounts are genuine. To some extent, even the pawn shop owners do a bit of research to authenticate what they pay out or loose their rep with any others in the circle looking tro purchase simalar chit..

I sold 4 fully functional 12 guage shotguns to a pawn shop before I sold them a 50 cal ML.

Same guy every time..., but when I brought my ML in, he didn't recognize me and said, "Yeah, we can buy this without an FFL"

My shotguns never got me as much as a receipt. ..but I did get the option to trade them in for something smaller.

If I were a shady charachter, I'll bet I could get my hands on a whole bunch of  questionable, yet functional crap just down the road here if I needed to if I knocked on the back door the right way, or at least came through the front door presenting myself propperly. ???

[G-Man]

Unfortunatly the antler craze causes a lot of illegal activity, i would think there are a lot more illegal heads out there than fakes.Taking a deer Illegally is much more common poaching out of season,after legal hrs,non-hunting area, ect. Even sheds entered in nys record book are from non-hunting areas(not illegal to enter but to me its like picking them up at a zoo) Casting horns is tough a full rack is done from a mold and the seams must be filed down and shaped to look natural then color added(you can almost always find a spot that isn't right, adding points/fixing points a little easier as the mold is smaller and many times can be cast in place on the antler but they still need to be blended in and colored.Im sure some people will do amazing fakes but most are noticeable if they can be examined (tough to do when hanging on a wall from 5-8 ft away) the traveling buck shows use this trick with replicas so you think they are all real but there are lot of shows on the road with the same bucks.                                                                                                                                                                                                I remember a record book buck mount that was actually the sheds from a deer(screws in x ray showed) and the real buck was mounted and was thought to have been the sheds from the previous year as the rack was slightly smaller but in fact the deer was declining and the rack grew smaller the year it was harvested. I guess unless you can x-ray them buyer beware..

[steve863]

I guess it will never cease to amaze me what some hunters will do!  And for what??  I guess a world record deer head might bring in some money for someone, but in general what does one gain by doing something illegal just to get a chance to show off a big buck head?  I can't see any gain other than boosting someones bizarre ego.  I guess there are enough hunters out there with similar egos to make this all a thriving activity these days.  For who else really gives a rats butt about a deer head of any size in todays modern society??

[G-Man]

Unfortunalty a lot of people do... I really don't know if there is an answer for this and it makes me sad and angry to think that people will do illegal things/unethical things to get that "book" buck. At least i started hunting before the big buck craze and learned to enjoy hunting the way i wish everyone could. Take that which you can legaly so it will have a quick death, and enjoy the bounty from your kill.

[steve863]

At least i started hunting before the big buck craze and learned to enjoy hunting the way i wish everyone could. Take that which you can legaly so it will have a quick death, and enjoy the bounty from your kill.

Same here.  I am happy with anything I get.  Don't care if it's big horns, little horns, no horns, as long as I have a legal tag to take it.  I hunt for some good tasting venison and that's pretty much it.  If I am lucky enough to fill two tags in a season, that is also plenty enough meat for me.

[Doc]

All of this stuff is just a further display of how we have placed the emphasis of our hunting on hunters competing against hunters instead of simply against the deer. What the heck, we even have devised scoring systems and record books to keep track of who is ahead ....  . It's all an ego-thing as hunters attempt to gather the needed admiration of their fellow competitors. It has gotten to the point where many will devise ways of cheating and sidestepping laws and other inconveniences just to prove to the world their worth as a great hunter. It's amazing just how far people will go to try to cement their version of self worth and enhance their view of their importance in the hunting world. Consider the thousands of dollars that some invest in hunting land and habitat improvement. And I do mean thousands. Some have bought huge acreage and have invested the same kind of money that a small-time farmer would put out in ground-working, tilling tractors and implements. Some go a step further and invest in costly fencing. The sky is the limit .... lol. Is it really all that hard to believe that many would dummy up antlers and get involved in illegal and unethical means to reach that goal of needed admiration in the hunting community? It's all a little pathetic, but obvious and undeniable.

What a shame that they have not learned the value of treating hunting as a liesurely recreation. But I guess everyone is into hunting for their own reasons and has to do what they think they have to do.

By the way, hunting is not the only place where people get carried away in their pursuit of peer approval. Many fishermen have also become involved in all kinds of cheating schemes and law stretching for exactly the same reasons as some hunters. it's all sad, but apparently it is a part of human nature for some.

[nyantler]

As long as hunters continue to think of deer hunting as a competition... then we'll continue to have the cheaters.. the only competition should be between hunter and the game they pursue.