GPS trackers on hunters and hunter movement

[erussell]

Interesting study on PA hunters with GPS trackers. I can see this, Some of the stateland I hunt once you get back in 1/2 mile or so on some of the tracks without trails you will never see another hunter and lots of deer are there.

http://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/deermanagement/dm_0304GPSresearch/

[nyslowhand]

If you're a hunter with a 1/2 a brain;

You'll be familiar with your hunting areas, if not - you use a guide, topo map/compass or a GPS.

If you choose to ignore common sense, then Darwin's theory of Natrual Selection will prevail.

[fasteddie]

Interesting article . Thanks for posting .

[G-Man]

Heck that happens on private land as well! I rarely go further than 200-300 yards from my house even though my property is about a mile road to road. my friends and family go in from the other road and only go in 200-300 yards. that leaves a big gap in the middle! I could hunt down by the creek where the deertrails look like goat paths 4 in deep, but i'd have to haul that deer back uphill 900' to my house, much easier to get em close to the road or house and use the tractor to haul them out. I get my deer so why do excess work?? Yes i admit i am a lazy hunter  ;D

[steve863]

I don't know about going that extra mile on state land.  I guess it depends on the state land you hunt, but there is a good deal of state land like in the Catskills for example that it really won't help going in that extra mile away from everyone else.  Yeah sure, you might luck out and kill a deer, but GOOD luck finding one.  Deer are predominately creatures who much prefer living on the edge of cover and closer to fields.  You just won't find very many deer in the deep forests when they will prefer to find and live closer to fields, which in most cases will be on private land.  I guess one can luck out and kill a deer anywhere, but if one was to tally all the kills, even big buck kills, it will no doubt show that the majority of kills are spitting distance from open fields and fairly close to civilization and a much smaller percentage of the kills from the deep woods and mountaintops.  I myself prefer sticking with the percentages when it comes to hunting.

[G-Man]

Steve, thats what this article says the percentages are skewed because no one hunts deep, yes say 15 big buck are taken near fields to 1 in big woods but there are 1000 hunters who hunt near field and 5 that hunt deep.. thus big woods big deerhunter is 1/5 or 20% chance at a trophy,  where the field is 15/1000 or 1.5% . The deer that live on the edge will retreat to the deep woods as pressure increases on the edge, returning at night to feed. Its just easier to hunt close....

[steve863]

I get my deer so why do excess work?? Yes i admit i am a lazy hunter  ;D

I agree with this.  I guess it's a different story for state land hunters where there are many more hunters around but I think it's not only hunters that can be called lazy, it's the deer as well.  If deer are going to pushed by the influx of hunters on state land, why would they go deep into forests with a limited food source, when they could probably walk the same distance over to some private land where the picking will probably be a lot better?  I guess those hunters who don't have access to the private land have little choice in the matter here, but in reality the odds probably won't be much better if they do go deep into the state lands forests compared to those guys who stay closer to the roads.  I guess it's nice getting away from crowds, but in general I don't think one will be improving his chances too much. I have heard of some people who swear by hunting deep in state forests.  Yes, they have killed some deer, and a nice buck or two on the rare occasion, but in general there success rates are NO better than others who don't walk as far as them.  And if you compare their success to those who have access to some good private land, it really isn't even worth comparing, because private land will beat any state land hands down in my opinion.

[steve863]

Steve, thats what this article says the percentages are skewed because no one hunts deep, yes say 15 big buck are taken near fields to 1 in big woods but there are 1000 hunters who hunt near field and 5 that hunt deep.. thus big woods big deerhunter is 1/5 or 20% chance at a trophy,  where the field is 15/1000 or 1.5% . The deer that live on the edge will retreat to the deep woods as pressure increases on the edge, returning at night to feed. Its just easier to hunt close....

As I mentioned in my prior post, I think the deer will retreat to neighboring private land where food sources are better before they will enter the deep woods.  In many cases I think the deer retreated to these places well before hunting season ever comes around.  We look for easier hunts, deer look for easier food sources.  We are both lazy in our own way, thus we retreat to what makes things easier for us.

[G-Man]

At least in my area the private land that borders state land and the state land that borders the state land are the hardest hunted. If I was a deer id head deep into the woods and come out to eat at night....

[Doc]

The article was quite interesting, but as usual, I have my suspicions about trying to draw any useful conclusions using such limited studies. For example, the valley that I hunt in has a very limited amount of flat land near the road. It is all very dense, thorny, wet and almost impossible to hunt. Pretty much, if you are going to hunt that state land, you are going to have to climb a rather long, steep hill. There simply isn't enough huntable flat land to support even a small number of hunters. Also, 51 years of hunting in that same area has revealed that hunters seem to have no problem climbing a very steep and long hill and then continuing for quite a distance beyond the crest of the hill. Not only that but I have seen hunters climb that cardiac killer hill with heavy packs and bulky ladder-stands on their back to points that are well in excess of 1 mile from any road. The word has gotten out about how traveling deep into the woods of a state land parcels is practically guaranteed to put you in the area of big bucks. Everyone has read that and many hunters are reacting to that theory. Well actual on-the-ground observation does not bear that out in my valley. In fact in bow season, hunting areas on top of this hill are congested with other bowhunters, hikers, mountain bikers, and all kinds of people. These guys are not down in the valley next to the roads because that whole area is infested with multi-flora rose, grape vines, areas of standing water and other impenetratable features. They all find it much easier to follow the trail to the base of the hill and follow the mountain bike trails through the open woods to the top. By the way, guess where most of the big-buck sign and rutting activity is ..... lol. Everything is a complete mirror image of what this article concludes.

So the point is that a study such as this one may have some relevance somewhere, but to generalize the findings beyond the limited area that they studied, probably is not a useful thing to do.

[nyantler]

Steve, thats what this article says the percentages are skewed because no one hunts deep, yes say 15 big buck are taken near fields to 1 in big woods but there are 1000 hunters who hunt near field and 5 that hunt deep.. thus big woods big deerhunter is 1/5 or 20% chance at a trophy,  where the field is 15/1000 or 1.5% . The deer that live on the edge will retreat to the deep woods as pressure increases on the edge, returning at night to feed. Its just easier to hunt close....

Very true "G"... the quality of bucks will get much better the deeper in you go.. especially in vast areas... the deer are fewer and farther between in the deep woods... for us trackers.. the only place is the deep woods for the type of bucks that we are hunting... but if one is a sitter and is looking for quantity... closer to civilization is likely the better spot... there are place that I and others hunt in the deep woods that have been very successful for tracking.. but you could SIT there the rest of your life.. and never see a deer... bowhunting from a treestand would not be highly recommended for these areas..

[erussell]

The article was quite interesting, but as usual, I have my suspicions about trying to draw any useful conclusions using such limited studies. For example, the valley that I hunt in has a very limited amount of flat land near the road. It is all very dense, thorny, wet and almost impossible to hunt. Pretty much, if you are going to hunt that state land, you are going to have to climb a rather long, steep hill. There simply isn't enough huntable flat land to support even a small number of hunters. Also, 51 years of hunting in that same area has revealed that hunters seem to have no problem climbing a very steep and long hill and then continuing for quite a distance beyond the crest of the hill. Not only that but I have seen hunters climb that cardiac killer hill with heavy packs and bulky ladder-stands on their back to points that are well in excess of 1 mile from any road. The word has gotten out about how traveling deep into the woods of a state land parcels is practically guaranteed to put you in the area of big bucks. Everyone has read that and many hunters are reacting to that theory. Well actual on-the-ground observation does not bear that out in my valley. In fact in bow season, hunting areas on top of this hill are congested with other bowhunters, hikers, mountain bikers, and all kinds of people. These guys are not down in the valley next to the roads because that whole area is infested with multi-flora rose, grape vines, areas of standing water and other impenetratable features. They all find it much easier to follow the trail to the base of the hill and follow the mountain bike trails through the open woods to the top. By the way, guess where most of the big-buck sign and rutting activity is ..... lol. Everything is a complete mirror image of what this article concludes.

So the point is that a study such as this one may have some relevance somewhere, but to generalize the findings beyond the limited area that they studied, probably is not a useful thing to do.

That thick and nasty spot sounds interesting and probably full of deer once the lead fly's. Sounds like a good place to get into and cut your own secret trail system. Doesn't have to be wide just wide enough to get through. I would make it so it's not visible from the exterior either by walking in 20 yrds and then making the trails. Deer are lazy and will look for the easiest way and walk down your trails to a pre determined

ambush spot. If its big enough you could cut several ambush spots out and if its as nasty as you say you could probably set up a ground blind in there and no one will find it. 

[G-Man]

Doc, the key word you used in your statement is trails, if trails exist hunter will be on them, get a half mile off a trail and a road and its a different story. the steep part of your area has no trails due to it being very thick. hence the deer will be there... now for example allegeny state park has trails but a lot more land that doesn't, go along a trial and you will find hunters get off the trail a half mile or so and no hunters..  Most hunters i have met will not leave a trail system for fear of getting lost even with a gps... heck my neighbor only hunts the edge of his woods because he got lost for an hr in his woods, and there is a street at the bottom of the hill and one on top, and the ridge runs n-s... lol.... I guess it happens, the main thing is if an area doesn't get pressure the deer wll find it! if its close to a building or 2 miles deep in the woods. They seem to be good at that!!

[Doc]

That thick and nasty spot sounds interesting and probably full of deer once the lead fly's. Sounds like a good place to get into and cut your own secret trail system. Doesn't have to be wide just wide enough to get through. I would make it so it's not visible from the exterior either by walking in 20 yrds and then making the trails. Deer are lazy and will look for the easiest way and walk down your trails to a pre determined

ambush spot. If its big enough you could cut several ambush spots out and if its as nasty as you say you could probably set up a ground blind in there and no one will find it.

Remember that we are talking about state land. It is illegal to make the modifications that you mentioned. However, there is no doubt that the deer use these impenetrable places that are built out of the man-traps called multi-flora rose when the pressure comes on. And that movement into these places does not always begin with the gun season. Other human activity throughout the year also conditions the older deer to use these areas. And contrary to this article, these spots are directly next to the roads and parking areas not some place deep in the woods.

[Doc]

Doc, the key word you used in your statement is trails, if trails exist hunter will be on them, get a half mile off a trail and a road and its a different story. the steep part of your area has no trails due to it being very thick. hence the deer will be there... now for example allegeny state park has trails but a lot more land that doesn't, go along a trial and you will find hunters get off the trail a half mile or so and no hunters..  Most hunters i have met will not leave a trail system for fear of getting lost even with a gps... heck my neighbor only hunts the edge of his woods because he got lost for an hr in his woods, and there is a street at the bottom of the hill and one on top, and the ridge runs n-s... lol.... I guess it happens, the main thing is if an area doesn't get pressure the deer wll find it! if its close to a building or 2 miles deep in the woods. They seem to be good at that!!

Well it is likely that our little chunk of state land is a bit unique in that the mountain bikers have been given permission from the DEC to construct trails, and they have pretty much taken over the whole place with a maze of trails. Hard as it is to believe, these trails also go up the side of the hill and there pretty much is no way of getting even 1/4 mile away from any of these trails. It's amazing, but the law prohibits hunters from cutting even a branch or sapling on state land and yet these people have been given permission to hack these trails throughout this parcel in some cases to the point of digging flatted-out areas along these trails for their convenience. The only place that has escaped this intrusive land modification is the area at the bottom next to the road which is so thick with wild rose that no one has the fortitude to enter these areas to clear anything. The only trail in the bottom-land is a single one that leads straight to the hill where the hardwoods keep things pretty open on the side hill and beyond. That's where other trails begin to branch off and complete the total blanketing of the area with a network of interlocking trails. So now, the area has become a major hiking trail area as well as biking and where the area used to get several months of peace and quiet between hunting seasons, which allowed the deer to establish normal daylight patterns, it is constantly full of people on a year around basis now.

So the point of my reply was that while the study that this article was about may be valid for a majority of public land pressures, it is not valid for ALL public land people-patterns or deer reactions to that pressure.

[erussell]

Sorry to say it, time to move to a different area.   It has always blown my mind that hunters have to pay for our stateland use but others do not. In Alabama everyone had to buy a $5 management areas permit for upkeep of the land. But they also had camping areas and bathrooms on there management areas and food plots and timber companys took care of the land. The local NY environmentalist wakos would crap themselves. They also stocked all the lands with pheasants and qauil. Everyone always say's the southerners area ignorant because of the way they talk but who's looking dumb now.

[Doc]

Sorry to say it, time to move to a different area.  

No, I do pretty good on this chunk of land inspite of all the interferences. It's all a case of knowing the land a whole lot better than anyone else. Having hunted on the same parcel for all of my life, I know a lot of the back-door access points to areas that others never dare to enter.... . Those wild rose "man-traps" do have ways in for those that know the area.....lol.

I was just commenting on how some studies and articles get written up like they gospel and apply everywhere when in fact there are a lot of areas that have completely different circumstances.