Shumer shutdown

[Five Seasons]

1 hour ago, philoshop said:

I don't understand why I should have to ask for permission to exercise a Constitutional Right. It's not just the second amendment either. If I want to speak in the public square I'm now required to get permission to do so.

too much violence, traffic congestion. both sides are to blame for the non-peaceful protest. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

On 1/24/2018 at 9:29 AM, Belo said:

no gun show loop holes.

Tell me what you think a "gun show loop hole" is. 

[philoshop]

7 hours ago, Belo said:

too much violence, traffic congestion. both sides are to blame for the non-peaceful protest. 

I neither indicated nor suggested that my speech was "non-peaceful". In one case I was trying to rally people to join in a local 'Walk For Life' event to benefit cancer patients and survivors. I was told by the police that I needed permission (a permit) from the local government to do that.

You made a very bold assumption about me. You were wrong.

[Five Seasons]

18 hours ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Tell me what you think a "gun show loop hole" is. 

join me a gun show down south and i'll show you. 

11 hours ago, philoshop said:

I neither indicated nor suggested that my speech was "non-peaceful". In one case I was trying to rally people to join in a local 'Walk For Life' event to benefit cancer patients and survivors. I was told by the police that I needed permission (a permit) from the local government to do that.

You made a very bold assumption about me. You were wrong.

permits are in place because some people aren't peaceful. aka antifa and blm. i'm not sure why i needed to explain that to you, it's the same reason we have gun laws. some people ruin it for everyone. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

3 minutes ago, Belo said:

join me a gun show down south and i'll show you. 

 

You made the claim, I would like to know specifically what you are referencing

[Five Seasons]

2 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

You made the claim, I would like to know specifically what you are referencing

not a discussion for a public forum.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

2 minutes ago, Belo said:

not a discussion for a public forum.

Why not? it is a claim the Anti's are using and I'd like to know if it has merit. Is their truly a loophole or is it actually illegal activity that a new law wouldn't have any bearing on anyway. Out in public sounds like the perfect place. 

[Steuben Jerry]

27 minutes ago, Belo said:

not a discussion for a public forum.

Without knowing the specifics of this, is it truly a loophole or is it an existing law not being enforced?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

2 minutes ago, Steuben Jerry said:

Without knowing the specifics of this, is it truly a loophole or is it an existing law not being enforced?

my bet is the latter or he is talking about private sales that most states allow becasue they don't have the Un-Safe act

[Rattler]

If he can't talk about what's going on, that's because it's illegal!  Case closed.

A "loophole" is something the law fails to address and leaves a way for people to skirt it without violating it.  As far as gun shows go, they do NOT exist, because every firearm transaction is currently regulated by the government already. 

Some states regulate more severely than others, but every transaction is regulated.

[Five Seasons]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole

check out the states section.

you all live in NY.

like I said, take a trip down south with me.

Edited January 31, 2018 by Belo

[Rattler]

All your link does is provide info on current laws for firearm sales.  Are you trying to say if a NICS check is not required for a transfer between two private individuals who live in the same state, it's a "loophole" that skirts the law?  It's not if it's the law in that state.

If anyone does a private transfer ANYWHERE in a state that requires a NICS check to do it, they have committed a crime!  They have not successfully skirted the law with a legal move taking advantage of a "loophole".

Now if you want to get into the problems involved with making ALL firearm transactions require a NICS check, we can start another thread and talk about why that is a very bad idea for firearm owners.

Just to put a tease out there for you, it cannot be successful unless every single firearm in the country is registered!  And once they are, they can be easily confiscated!

To regain our rights, we'll all be looking for a loophole in the tyranny we allowed to happen.

Edited January 31, 2018 by Rattler

[Culvercreek hunt club]

1 hour ago, Belo said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole

check out the states section.

you all live in NY.

like I said, take a trip down south with me.

So it is a private sale issue that you are referencing and not anything at all to do with gun shows? becasue if Billy Smith lives in Maine and he wants to sell his guns he can put an ad in the paper, put out a garage sale sign or I guess go pay to have a table at a gun show to sell them.  if he is NOT a dealer he would not have to run background checks. That is in any venue that I mentioned even out of the back of his truck at the local Walmart parking lot. I have been to gun shows in probably about a half dozen states so I can't speak to everyone by any means  but the tables I have seen selling firearms have been dealers. Unless they are highly collectible firearms or antiques It just would not pay to put out the expense for an individual.

[Five Seasons]

You can call it whatever you want. Fact of the matter is that criminals and those otherwise not allowed to own firearms can do so through private sale, some of which happens at gun shows.

That does not benefit any of us who legally own firearms. And that includes me, an NRA member.

It’s clear some of you want no measures in place at all. I am not one of them. I’d rather we fight to get our assault rifles and mags back and give in to a basic background check through an FFL at a small fee of ~$20.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[philoshop]

Criminals will always be able to get guns, whether it's through a gun show or out of the trunk of a car on the street. Additional laws restrict no one except law-abiding citizens.

[Five Seasons]

Yes head in the sand criminals will always get guns. That's the way to help preserve the few rights we have left. I mean, it's the same argument we say that bad people kill people, not guns right? Take away guns and they will just build bombs. 

So to be clear, ya'll are ok with a private citizen being legally able to sell a firearm to a convicted felon? That it's legal for the seller to do so? And that we shouldn't at least make him work for it? Sort of like, not even locking your doors because if he wants in bad enough he will get in?

[chas0218]

14 hours ago, philoshop said:

Criminals will always be able to get guns, whether it's through a gun show or out of the trunk of a car on the street. Additional laws restrict no one except law-abiding citizens.

The socialist left can't get that through their thick heads, they just want to see everyone unarmed so they can do what they wish.

[chas0218]

5 minutes ago, Belo said:

Yes head in the sand criminals will always get guns. That's the way to help preserve the few rights we have left. I mean, it's the same argument we say that bad people kill people, not guns right? Take away guns and they will just build bombs. 

So to be clear, ya'll are ok with a private citizen being legally able to sell a firearm to a convicted felon? That it's legal for the seller to do so? And that we shouldn't at least make him work for it? Sort of like, not even locking your doors because if he wants in bad enough he will get in?

Huh? How can I sell any firearm to a convicted felon? If they are a convicted felon they can't pass a NICS check. If you give or sell a firearm to a convicted felon you will be on the hook and spending some time in jail and also become a felon.

[Five Seasons]

6 minutes ago, chas0218 said:

Huh? How can I sell any firearm to a convicted felon? If they are a convicted felon they can't pass a NICS check. If you give or sell a firearm to a convicted felon you will be on the hook and spending some time in jail and also become a felon.

incorrect for the majority of states. correct for ny.

 

Private-parties are not legally required by federal law to: ask for identification, complete any forms, or keep any sales records, as long as the sale does not cross state lines and does not fall under purview of the National Firearms Act

[Steuben Jerry]

7 minutes ago, chas0218 said:

Huh? How can I sell any firearm to a convicted felon? If they are a convicted felon they can't pass a NICS check. If you give or sell a firearm to a convicted felon you will be on the hook and spending some time in jail and also become a felon.

Prior to the Un-Safe Act, we didn't need a NICS check to sell privately. Without that you wouldn't know thy were a felon unless you had some first hand knowledge. Now the NICS check would uncover that.

All the free states don't require a NICS check for private sales.

[steve863]

9 minutes ago, chas0218 said:

Huh? How can I sell any firearm to a convicted felon? If they are a convicted felon they can't pass a NICS check. If you give or sell a firearm to a convicted felon you will be on the hook and spending some time in jail and also become a felon.

In majority of states you do NOT need to have a NICS check in private face to face sale of long guns, so YES you could unknowingly sell to a felon quite easily.

 

 

[Five Seasons]

And I personally see that as an easy fix. It will not solve gun violence. But it should help. 

I also understand the give an inch mentality so i see why some fight it. I guess ultimately I wish it didn't have to come down to politics and we could all agree that obtaining a firearm should come with some basic checks and balances like it does 95% of the time. I guess I'd wonder if ya'll are against commercial sale nics checks as well?

[Five Seasons]

2 minutes ago, steve863 said:

In majority of states you do NOT need to have a NICS check in private face to face sale of long guns, so YES you could unknowingly sell to a felon quite easily.

 

 

many states do not require a pistol permit either, hence my comment about the south. a permit is only required if you intend to conceal carry. all that's required for that is a fingerprinting, background check and you're set in 4 weeks. it's all done at the dmv btw.

to possess a pistol in your car and home is perfectly legal and the same as owning a long gun in ny.

[chas0218]

3 minutes ago, steve863 said:

In majority of states you do NOT need to have a NICS check in private face to face sale of long guns, so YES you could unknowingly sell to a felon quite easily.

 

 

I thought we were talking NY, not sure why someone would take that chance.

 

3 minutes ago, Belo said:

And I personally see that as an easy fix. It will not solve gun violence. But it should help. 

I also understand the give an inch mentality so i see why some fight it. I guess ultimately I wish it didn't have to come down to politics and we could all agree that obtaining a firearm should come with some basic checks and balances like it does 95% of the time. I guess I'd wonder if ya'll are against commercial sale nics checks as well?

Criminals will get guns no matter what laws are on the books, NICS checks don't stop them. I would like to know the number of NICS checks that have prevented criminals (felons) from purchasing and possessing a gun. I'm betting it is a very small percentage.

[chas0218]

6 minutes ago, Belo said:

many states do not require a pistol permit either, hence my comment about the south. a permit is only required if you intend to conceal carry. all that's required for that is a fingerprinting, background check and you're set in 4 weeks. it's all done at the dmv btw.

to possess a pistol in your car and home is perfectly legal and the same as owning a long gun in ny.

Yes but many states require a concealed carry permit while you don't need one to own the gun. For example Florida, you can't carry your gun on person unless you have a Florida permit.

Edited February 1, 2018 by chas0218