This whole issue with 3d gun printing

[moog5050]

Any thoughts on this?  I know its been around for a while and people can make ARs with just a bit of knowledge from parts sold on the internet ( or other methods of gun making).  As much as I am pro second amendment, not sure I want just anyone to be able to print a working gun in their basement.  I assume most on this site would be in support of the group seeking to post specs, but I doubt the wisdom of doing so.

[ATbuckhunter]

Im indifferent about it. Its going to happen whether or not we allow it, so might as well allow it. It is a bit scary to think of, but guns arent really hard to get your hands on anyway. 

[grampy]

I agree with you moog. The other thing is, these printed guns have no serial number and are untraceable. Not so sure that is something we want a lot of. There are just too many bad guys out there.  The law abiding gun owner will have no problem with a serial number on their firearm.

[moog5050]

9 minutes ago, ATbuckhunter said:

Im indifferent about it. Its going to happen whether or not we allow it, so might as well allow it. It is a bit scary to think of, but guns arent really hard to get your hands on anyway. 

I recognize that most criminals can get a gun if they want regardless.  But making it easier for criminal enterprises to make their own untraceable guns just doesn't seem like a good idea.  You may very well be right that it is inevitable.

[ATbuckhunter]

6 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

I recognize that most criminals can get a gun if they want regardless.  But making it easier for criminal enterprises to make their own untraceable guns just doesn't seem like a good idea.  You may very well be right that it is inevitable.

I agree with you 100% moog. My only thing is, its going to happen either way. Lets say we make it illegal to print these guns...whos going to know if someone is printing them with out some sort of tip off? 

[moog5050]

11 minutes ago, ATbuckhunter said:

I agree with you 100% moog. My only thing is, its going to happen either way. Lets say we make it illegal to print these guns...whos going to know if someone is printing them with out some sort of tip off? 

Yep.  I get it.  I just don't want some gang to cough up $2k in drug money for a printer and start printing untraceable gun after gun for criminal use.  But I don't claim to know how to stop the flow of information to prevent it.

[Marion]

I recognize that most criminals can get a gun if they want regardless.  But making it easier for criminal enterprises to make their own untraceable guns just doesn't seem like a good idea.  You may very well be right that it is inevitable.

You talk about untraceable, but you can easily swap barrels and bam the bullet can no longer be traced. So that's a very foolish argument. Not to mention it is a felony to make one of these to sell at home without a serial number and equally as important without an ffl license. Plus let's be real the local gangbanger scumbag is using some gun with the serials filed off that has more bodies than you can count on it and he got it for 50 bucks. I highly doubt these will be used by the vast majority for bad. So let's not be silly

You Can't Beat My Meat!!!

[ATbuckhunter]

7 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

Yep.  I get it.  I just don't want some gang to cough up $2k in drug money for a printer and start printing untraceable gun after gun for criminal use.  But I don't claim to know how to stop the flow of information to prevent it.

I agree with you, I really don't like the idea of it. I just cant see a way to stop the plans to get out there and the gangs to do it either way.

[moog5050]

8 minutes ago, The Jerkman said:

You talk about untraceable, but you can easily swap barrels and bam the bullet can no longer be traced. So that's a very foolish argument. Not to mention it is a felony to make one of these to sell at home without a serial number and equally as important without an ffl license. Plus let's be real the local gangbanger scumbag is using some gun with the serials filed off that has more bodies than you can count on it and he got it for 50 bucks. I highly doubt these will be used by the vast majority for bad. So let's not be silly

You Can't Beat My Meat!!!
 

LOL - so you support the idea of making it easier for anyone to print a gun?  Kinda like saying its impossible to stop the drug trade so why try.  I don't buy that either.  I already acknowledged that criminals will find a way.  But I see no point in making it easier for them.  And your right, the law abiding citizen will not print in their basement.  That's not who concerns me.

[Marion]

LOL - so you support the idea of making it easier for anyone to print a gun?  Kinda like saying its impossible to stop the drug trade so why try.  I don't buy that either.  I already acknowledged that criminals will find a way.  But I see no point in making it easier for them.  And your right, the law abiding citizen will not print in their basement.  That's not who concerns me.

Yes I support "printing" a gun easier. Crooks will do criminal things they don't give two shits about the law and that's why they are crooks. Also the machines required to cnc a lower are upwards of 25k+ not to mention require extensive training and knowledge how to operate correctly. At the end of the day the libtards are just trying to control the citizenry even further.

You Can't Beat My Meat!!!

[Steuben Jerry]

39 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

Any thoughts on this?  I know its been around for a while and people can make ARs with just a bit of knowledge from parts sold on the internet ( or other methods of gun making).  As much as I am pro second amendment, not sure I want just anyone to be able to print a working gun in their basement.  I assume most on this site would be in support of the group seeking to post specs, but I doubt the wisdom of doing so.

I'm still trying to form a consistent opinion without reading the typical news site vitriol. Of course I don't want a bad guy to make an untraceable gun and bring it on an airplane undetected (side note, wouldn't the ammo still be detectable?). However, what we're talking about is a machine tool program. Thousands of lines of code - x,y,z coordinates with interspersed m-codes and g-codes. I know I don't want to see what we type on a computer become illegal. And isn't that really what this is about?

I think I'm coming down on the side of the program is legal, sharing it is legal, but make an illegal gun and you're busted (if found out). That would be consistent with if I made an illegal handgun from steel on a Bridgeport in my basement, I'd be busted.

Still thinking this through though.

[moog5050]

7 minutes ago, The Jerkman said:

Yes I support "printing" a gun easier. Crooks will do criminal things they don't give two shits about the law and that's why they are crooks. Also the machines required to cnc a lower are upwards of 25k+ not to mention require extensive training and knowledge how to operate correctly. At the end of the day the libtards are just trying to control the citizenry even further.

You Can't Beat My Meat!!!
 

So who would you see printing guns if it aint the crooks, FFLs?   The report I saw this morning said the gun was printed on a $2000 machine.  Just what was reported.

[Dinsdale]

You can already buy receiver parts to make a serial number free gun. unfinished AR and AK sheetmetal

I have 2 Mausers with no numbers, and actual made one up so I could take one on a hunt so I could get a customs form; used the licence plate off my old truck. LOL

There are plans on line already for machined ways to make a firearm and its perfectly legal to do so, but you cannot become a manufacturer and sell them. Go to 'Home Shop Machinist' a recognized national magazine in multiple detailed instructions. There is a sizeable group that do these.

Criminals are just going to buy access to a street corner gun and not buy a 3D printer or a milling machine. Why?

Its stupid easy to get a handgun in any city for stupid cheap.

Edited August 1, 2018 by Dinsdale

[Marion]

So who would you see printing guns if it aint the crooks, FFLs?   The report I saw this morning said the gun was printed on a $2000 machine.  Just what was reported.

No, people like you and I, law abiding citizens that just want one because they want one. So long as you do all the work and not transfer to anyone it is perfectly legal. Both of us can easily pass background checks but don't you ever take pride in making something yourself?

You Can't Beat My Meat!!!

[moog5050]

8 minutes ago, Steuben Jerry said:

I'm still trying to form a consistent opinion without reading the typical news site vitriol. Of course I don't want a bad guy to make an untraceable gun and bring it on an airplane undetected (side note, wouldn't the ammo still be detectable?). However, what we're talking about is a machine tool program. Thousands of lines of code - x,y,z coordinates with interspersed m-codes and g-codes. I know I don't want to see what we type on a computer become illegal. And isn't that really what this is about?

I think I'm coming down on the side of the program is legal, sharing it is legal, but make an illegal gun and you're busted (if found out). That would be consistent with if I made an illegal handgun from steel on a Bridgeport in my basement, I'd be busted.

Still thinking this through though.

Fair point and definitely worthy of consideration.  And trust me I am not a liberal beating the drum.  Something does bother me about this concept however. 

[Marion]

You can already buy receiver parts to make a serial number free gun. unfinished AR and AK sheetmetal
I have 2 Mausers with no numbers, and actual made one up so I could take one on a hunt so I could get a customs form; used the licence plate off my old truck. LOL
There are plans on line already for machined ways to make a firearm and its perfectly legal to do so, but you cannot become a manufacturer and sell them. Go to 'Home Shop Machinist' a recognized national magazine in multiple detailed instructions. There is a sizeable group that do these.
Criminals are just going to buy access to a street corner gun and not buy a 3D printer or a milling machine. Why?
Its stupid easy to get a handgun in any city for stupid cheap.

Thank you Dinsdale!

You Can't Beat My Meat!!!

[Steuben Jerry]

7 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

Fair point and definitely worthy of consideration.  And trust me I am not a liberal beating the drum.  Something does bother me about this concept however. 

I'm in the same place Moog.

[moog5050]

7 minutes ago, The Jerkman said:

No, people like you and I, law abiding citizens that just want one because they want one. So long as you do all the work and not transfer to anyone it is perfectly legal. Both of us can easily pass background checks but don't you ever take pride in making something yourself?

You Can't Beat My Meat!!!
 

I like some DIY projects but making a gun is not my plans.  I like my fingers too much. 

[grampy]

9 minutes ago, Dinsdale said:

You can already buy receiver parts to make a serial number free gun. unfinished AR and AK sheetmetal

I have 2 Mausers with no numbers, and actual made one up so I could take one on a hunt so I could get a customs form; used the licence plate off my old truck. LOL

There are plans on line already for machined ways to make a firearm and its perfectly legal to do so, but you cannot become a manufacturer and sell them. Go to 'Home Shop Machinist' al recognized national magazine in multiple detailed instructions. There is a sizeable group that do these.

Criminals are just going to buy access to a street corner gun and not buy a 3D printer or a milling machine. Why?

Its stupid easy to get a handgun in any city for stupid cheap.

You make too much sense Dan.

I never even knew about 'gun printing' until recently.  So this post is a good way to gain information without the TV spin.

[WNYBuckHunter]

You guys do realize that these are not complete guns right? Most of what you are hearing on the news is nothing but scare tactics and nonsense.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a22604405/3d-printed-guns/

 

[Dinsdale]

11 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

So who would you see printing guns if it aint the crooks, FFLs?   The report I saw this morning said the gun was printed on a $2000 machine.  Just what was reported.

There's one set of detailed  plans on line that uses a mini mill for $780 and some cheap Chinese tooling for around $240 with all the jigs required in detail.

[Marion]

I like some DIY projects but making a gun is not my plans.  I like my fingers too much. 

Bah it's just like legos, but for grown ups. Also Steuben it is legal to make a pistol from an 80% lower assuming you serializes and added it to your permit prior to finishing I believe, also it would have to sit at an ffl until added on your permit. Additionally most states do not require registration of pistols so you could if outside NY in say Ohio, build a 1911 from scratch in your basement and be totally legal

You Can't Beat My Meat!!!

[moog5050]

14 minutes ago, Dinsdale said:

You can already buy receiver parts to make a serial number free gun. unfinished AR and AK sheetmetal

I have 2 Mausers with no numbers, and actual made one up so I could take one on a hunt so I could get a customs form; used the licence plate off my old truck. LOL

There are plans on line already for machined ways to make a firearm and its perfectly legal to do so, but you cannot become a manufacturer and sell them. Go to 'Home Shop Machinist' a recognized national magazine in multiple detailed instructions. There is a sizeable group that do these.

Criminals are just going to buy access to a street corner gun and not buy a 3D printer or a milling machine. Why?

Its stupid easy to get a handgun in any city for stupid cheap.

I know this but the concept still bothers me.  It seems like as technology progresses (and this is a starting point) and the process becomes cheaper and cheaper, kids, criminals, etc. will have a much easier time accessing a gun. 

[Marion]

There's one set of detailed  plans on line that uses a mini mill for $780 and some cheap Chinese tooling for around $240 with all the jigs required in detail.

Do pm me the link

You Can't Beat My Meat!!!

[moog5050]

10 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

You guys do realize that these are not complete guns right? Most of what you are hearing on the news is nothing but scare tactics and nonsense.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a22604405/3d-printed-guns/

 

Great read John.  Thx