Sportsmen Strongly Support Yearling Buck Protection in NYSDEC Deer Plan

[nyantler]

older does prefer older bucks to breed them. 

This according to a recently completed survey of 2500 does conducted by a research team from Cornell University. 62% of the respondants claimed that age does matter.

That's right it doesn't matter... and with the absence of older bucks the young bucks will "have" to be the ones breeding... when they should be spending those early years... building body size and strength... hence lessoning their potential to become bigger older bucks... which I guess really doesn't matter anyway seeing how most won't survive their first hunting season anyway.

[ELMER J. FUDD]

This thread is like "deja vu all over again".

[steve863]

This thread is like "deja vu all over again".

No kidding.  All we need is that fella Fairgame to come back and it will be like watching Amityville Horror II.

[burmjohn]

The healthier herd theory is what is most laughable here.  Absolutely NO reason why a herd can't be just as healthy if you kill the 1 1/2 year olds or let them walk and kill them next year.  A 1 1/2 year old buck will pass on the same genetics at this age as he would at an older age, so why does letting them walk make things better for the herd?  What this theory does is make some hunters happy way more than it will actually benefit the health of the herd, but of course you guys will never admit it.  As I said, all of this is being rehashed again here.  This AR nonsense has been argued enough times already here.

It is very laughable to a person that understands nothing about it... yes... first, it is not a theory... a theory is a thought of what might happen or could happen, but has not yet been proven... AR's and herd health is not a theory, the concept of deer management has been proven time and time again in State after State... and it's benefit to herd health can be seen in any of the management studies that have taken place in NY over the last couple decades... the reason AR's is being rehashed is maybe because there are still those of you that don't get it... what needs to be admitted here is that you simply do not like AR's and refuse to learn anything about deer management that might make you understand better... having said that.. I don't think that herd health is the real concern in NY for AR's... but more for age structure in the buck population

Excellent points Antler. 

[steve863]

What we truly need to settle this argument is some enlightening words from Mr.VJP.

He's getting a head start on his July 4th weekend.  You know he needs to avoid those toll roads, so it usually takes him a little longer to get where he's going.  Looks like they got him on film anyway, even without that EZ pass.

[Geno C]

This thread is like "deja vu all over again".

i agree, id say this is a topic where we agree to disagree!

so many mixed opinions on this and it will go 100 pages before this topic dies out again... lol

[Dave]

This thread is like "deja vu all over again".

i agree, id say this is a topic where we agree to disagree!

so many mixed opinions on this and it will go 100 pages before this topic dies out again... lol

Just beating a dead horse over and over and over. No one will change their mind on this issue either for or against.

Dave

[YoungBucksTasteBetter]

Apparently the person who published the article only talked to a few select folks.  We've had AR in 3C/3J for 6 years now....the data collected by DEC clearly shows that the bucks walking around in this area are no bigger (or "better" as the AR lackies like to say) than back then.  There's lots of talk as to why this is (in the most recent Outdoor News one of the comments was that we had a bad winter in 2004).  So back in 2005 we were shooting itty-bitty 1.5 year old bucks...now we're shooting itty-bitty 2.5 year old bucks.  The constant claim that any big buck shot in this area was due to AR is false as it ignores that fact that bucks just as big were taken from this area long before ARs were put in place.  If it ain't worked after 7 years, it ain't gonna work.  The guys who want to protect that 1.5 year old buck because it's "their trophy" a year or 2 from now need to buy that 500 acres, put up the 10 ft fence, and have at it.  Those of us stuck hunting on public land haven't seen a difference, and we'd like to have the option of choosing our own trophy given back to us.

[nyantler]

Apparently the person who published the article only talked to a few select folks.  We've had AR in 3C/3J for 6 years now....the data collected by DEC clearly shows that the bucks walking around in this area are no bigger (or "better" as the AR lackies like to say) than back then.  There's lots of talk as to why this is (in the most recent Outdoor News one of the comments was that we had a bad winter in 2004).  So back in 2005 we were shooting itty-bitty 1.5 year old bucks...now we're shooting itty-bitty 2.5 year old bucks.  The constant claim that any big buck shot in this area was due to AR is false as it ignores that fact that bucks just as big were taken from this area long before ARs were put in place.  If it ain't worked after 7 years, it ain't gonna work.  The guys who want to protect that 1.5 year old buck because it's "their trophy" a year or 2 from now need to buy that 500 acres, put up the 10 ft fence, and have at it.  Those of us stuck hunting on public land haven't seen a difference, and we'd like to have the option of choosing our own trophy given back to us.

The reason it isn't working is because 3 on a side is not a good yearling buck protector

[Meat Hunter]

Where to start…I am a meat hunter- 99% of the meat I eat is venison.  Before the AR plan, for 16 years, I harvested a spike buck that averaged 80 dressed.  Since the AR plan our average buck is 133 lbs.  That is a lot more meat. 

I have seen a lot more scraps, rubs and some really cool grunting and doe chasing.

Now keep in mind that 3 points only works in our area and most of the rest of NY would need a higher standard to protect yearling bucks.

I am not sure where the folks are from on this site but if you were in Sullivan and Ulster County and went to the Federation meetings you would see that ARs are what the local sportsmen want.  The DEC surveys show that 67% of the hunters who go afield want to expand ARs.  In the Areas that have ARs the majority want to keep them.  If you were in Sullivan and Ulster Counties and saw the DEC presentations on the issue, you would see that the DEC numbers show they work, buck harvest is 85% adult males, that is 2.5 years and older.

ARs are working to protect yearling bucks—only 14% of the harvest is yearling bucks now in the AR area.  That is down 80%.  And we have harvested the biggest bucks since the 1920s.

The harvest data coming from DEC in the units where ARs are in effect ends the debate about whether or not they work; it is now proven to work in NY.  The only thing left to discuss right now is how people feel about them (ARs). The DEC Surveys have proven that hunter support adopting and continuing the  program  The bottom line is every hunter wants to see the biggest buck possible and AR make that possible.

Now let’s look at who supports the DEC AR expansion plan:  6 Senators, 7 Assembly Members,

Organized sportsmen:

Sullivan County Federation of Sportsmen 110 Clubs

Ulster County Federation of Sportsmen 35 clubs

Greene County Federation of Sportsmen

Schoharie County Conservation Association

Duchess County Federation of Sportsmen

QDMA- local, statewide and nation support

New York State Whitetail Management Coalition, Inc.

Local Community Support:

Sullivan County Legislature, Greene County Legislatures,

Sullivan County Farm Bureau, Ulster County Legislature,

Ulster County Farm Bureau, Schoharie County Board of Supervisors,

Delaware County Chamber of Commerce, Delaware County Farm Bureau,

Delaware County Economic Development, Delaware County Board of Supervisors,

Delaware County Legislature, Schoharie County Farm Bureau

Surveys

DEC Survey March 2009

67.1% Support Antler Restrictions in the proposed units 19.9% oppose. This Represents a

super majority, not just a majority and meets the DEC's arbitrary numbers for implementing

Antler Restrictions in new areas.

Cornell HDRU 2007 – 63% support yearling buck protection and 15% against them in the

proposed area and 59% said it would improve hunting satisfaction.

NYSCC Survey found 81% for Antler Restrictions in the 8 proposed units and 61% statewide

for Antler Restrictions.

New York Bowhunters Survey 2010 found 65% of their members in favor of antler

restrictions.

Tiger Survey found 75% for new buck management and 65% not happy with NYS deer

management.

Public Meetings Surveys all found over 90% support for Antler Restrictions from Delaware,

Sullivan Ulster and Schoharie Counties.

Delaware Department of Economic Development Survey found 90.7% for it and 9.3 against

Antler Restrictions.

ARs are what the local folks want, they have overwhelming support and they work. If you are not in the areas proposed perhaps you should apply the concept of home rule and let those folks have the say as to what happens in their back yards.

I am surprised that there appear to be several vocal opponents on this site.  Other sites I visit are strongly in support of ARs

[ELMER J. FUDD]

Where to start…I am a meat hunter- 99% of the meat I eat is venison.  Before the AR plan, for 16 years, I harvested a spike buck that averaged 80 dressed.  Since the AR plan our average buck is 133 lbs.  That is a lot more meat. 

I have seen a lot more scraps, rubs and some really cool grunting and doe chasing.

Now keep in mind that 3 points only works in our area and most of the rest of NY would need a higher standard to protect yearling bucks.

I am not sure where the folks are from on this site but if you were in Sullivan and Ulster County and went to the Federation meetings you would see that ARs are what the local sportsmen want.  The DEC surveys show that 67% of the hunters who go afield want to expand ARs.  In the Areas that have ARs the majority want to keep them.  If you were in Sullivan and Ulster Counties and saw the DEC presentations on the issue, you would see that the DEC numbers show they work, buck harvest is 85% adult males, that is 2.5 years and older.

ARs are working to protect yearling bucks—only 14% of the harvest is yearling bucks now in the AR area.  That is down 80%.  And we have harvested the biggest bucks since the 1920s.

The harvest data coming from DEC in the units where ARs are in effect ends the debate about whether or not they work; it is now proven to work in NY.  The only thing left to discuss right now is how people feel about them (ARs). The DEC Surveys have proven that hunter support adopting and continuing the  program  The bottom line is every hunter wants to see the biggest buck possible and AR make that possible.

Now let’s look at who supports the DEC AR expansion plan:  6 Senators, 7 Assembly Members,

Organized sportsmen:

Sullivan County Federation of Sportsmen 110 Clubs

Ulster County Federation of Sportsmen 35 clubs

Greene County Federation of Sportsmen

Schoharie County Conservation Association

Duchess County Federation of Sportsmen

QDMA- local, statewide and nation support

New York State Whitetail Management Coalition, Inc.

Local Community Support:

Sullivan County Legislature, Greene County Legislatures,

Sullivan County Farm Bureau, Ulster County Legislature,

Ulster County Farm Bureau, Schoharie County Board of Supervisors,

Delaware County Chamber of Commerce, Delaware County Farm Bureau,

Delaware County Economic Development, Delaware County Board of Supervisors,

Delaware County Legislature, Schoharie County Farm Bureau

Surveys

DEC Survey March 2009

67.1% Support Antler Restrictions in the proposed units 19.9% oppose. This Represents a

super majority, not just a majority and meets the DEC's arbitrary numbers for implementing

Antler Restrictions in new areas.

Cornell HDRU 2007 – 63% support yearling buck protection and 15% against them in the

proposed area and 59% said it would improve hunting satisfaction.

NYSCC Survey found 81% for Antler Restrictions in the 8 proposed units and 61% statewide

for Antler Restrictions.

New York Bowhunters Survey 2010 found 65% of their members in favor of antler

restrictions.

Tiger Survey found 75% for new buck management and 65% not happy with NYS deer

management.

Public Meetings Surveys all found over 90% support for Antler Restrictions from Delaware,

Sullivan Ulster and Schoharie Counties.

Delaware Department of Economic Development Survey found 90.7% for it and 9.3 against

Antler Restrictions.

ARs are what the local folks want, they have overwhelming support and they work. If you are not in the areas proposed perhaps you should apply the concept of home rule and let those folks have the say as to what happens in their back yards.

I am surprised that there appear to be several vocal opponents on this site.  Other sites I visit are strongly in support of ARs

Woah! That's a mighty hefty 1st post there fella. Some good info, but where did you get those numbers? can you provide links? On this site, the AR poll shows 53% approval. the rest are against or confused.

[burmjohn]

Where to start…I am a meat hunter- 99% of the meat I eat is venison.  Before the AR plan, for 16 years, I harvested a spike buck that averaged 80 dressed.  Since the AR plan our average buck is 133 lbs.  That is a lot more meat. 

I have seen a lot more scraps, rubs and some really cool grunting and doe chasing.

Now keep in mind that 3 points only works in our area and most of the rest of NY would need a higher standard to protect yearling bucks.

I am not sure where the folks are from on this site but if you were in Sullivan and Ulster County and went to the Federation meetings you would see that ARs are what the local sportsmen want.  The DEC surveys show that 67% of the hunters who go afield want to expand ARs.  In the Areas that have ARs the majority want to keep them.  If you were in Sullivan and Ulster Counties and saw the DEC presentations on the issue, you would see that the DEC numbers show they work, buck harvest is 85% adult males, that is 2.5 years and older.

ARs are working to protect yearling bucks—only 14% of the harvest is yearling bucks now in the AR area.  That is down 80%.  And we have harvested the biggest bucks since the 1920s.

The harvest data coming from DEC in the units where ARs are in effect ends the debate about whether or not they work; it is now proven to work in NY.  The only thing left to discuss right now is how people feel about them (ARs). The DEC Surveys have proven that hunter support adopting and continuing the  program  The bottom line is every hunter wants to see the biggest buck possible and AR make that possible.

Now let’s look at who supports the DEC AR expansion plan:  6 Senators, 7 Assembly Members,

Organized sportsmen:

Sullivan County Federation of Sportsmen 110 Clubs

Ulster County Federation of Sportsmen 35 clubs

Greene County Federation of Sportsmen

Schoharie County Conservation Association

Duchess County Federation of Sportsmen

QDMA- local, statewide and nation support

New York State Whitetail Management Coalition, Inc.

Local Community Support:

Sullivan County Legislature, Greene County Legislatures,

Sullivan County Farm Bureau, Ulster County Legislature,

Ulster County Farm Bureau, Schoharie County Board of Supervisors,

Delaware County Chamber of Commerce, Delaware County Farm Bureau,

Delaware County Economic Development, Delaware County Board of Supervisors,

Delaware County Legislature, Schoharie County Farm Bureau

Surveys

DEC Survey March 2009

67.1% Support Antler Restrictions in the proposed units 19.9% oppose. This Represents a

super majority, not just a majority and meets the DEC's arbitrary numbers for implementing

Antler Restrictions in new areas.

Cornell HDRU 2007 – 63% support yearling buck protection and 15% against them in the

proposed area and 59% said it would improve hunting satisfaction.

NYSCC Survey found 81% for Antler Restrictions in the 8 proposed units and 61% statewide

for Antler Restrictions.

New York Bowhunters Survey 2010 found 65% of their members in favor of antler

restrictions.

Tiger Survey found 75% for new buck management and 65% not happy with NYS deer

management.

Public Meetings Surveys all found over 90% support for Antler Restrictions from Delaware,

Sullivan Ulster and Schoharie Counties.

Delaware Department of Economic Development Survey found 90.7% for it and 9.3 against

Antler Restrictions.

ARs are what the local folks want, they have overwhelming support and they work. If you are not in the areas proposed perhaps you should apply the concept of home rule and let those folks have the say as to what happens in their back yards.

I am surprised that there appear to be several vocal opponents on this site.  Other sites I visit are strongly in support of ARs

Interesting...  The last few bucks taken off our property weighed in at 180 and 190 respectively...  As I said before, the local butcher needed to buy bigger boxes. All thanks to AR, and letting the little guys walk.

[TheHunter]

Where to start…I am a meat hunter- 99% of the meat I eat is venison.  Before the AR plan, for 16 years, I harvested a spike buck that averaged 80 dressed.  Since the AR plan our average buck is 133 lbs.  That is a lot more meat. 

I have seen a lot more scraps, rubs and some really cool grunting and doe chasing.

Now keep in mind that 3 points only works in our area and most of the rest of NY would need a higher standard to protect yearling bucks.

I am not sure where the folks are from on this site but if you were in Sullivan and Ulster County and went to the Federation meetings you would see that ARs are what the local sportsmen want.  The DEC surveys show that 67% of the hunters who go afield want to expand ARs.  In the Areas that have ARs the majority want to keep them.  If you were in Sullivan and Ulster Counties and saw the DEC presentations on the issue, you would see that the DEC numbers show they work, buck harvest is 85% adult males, that is 2.5 years and older.

ARs are working to protect yearling bucks—only 14% of the harvest is yearling bucks now in the AR area.  That is down 80%.  And we have harvested the biggest bucks since the 1920s.

The harvest data coming from DEC in the units where ARs are in effect ends the debate about whether or not they work; it is now proven to work in NY.  The only thing left to discuss right now is how people feel about them (ARs). The DEC Surveys have proven that hunter support adopting and continuing the  program  The bottom line is every hunter wants to see the biggest buck possible and AR make that possible.

Now let’s look at who supports the DEC AR expansion plan:  6 Senators, 7 Assembly Members,

Organized sportsmen:

Sullivan County Federation of Sportsmen 110 Clubs

Ulster County Federation of Sportsmen 35 clubs

Greene County Federation of Sportsmen

Schoharie County Conservation Association

Duchess County Federation of Sportsmen

QDMA- local, statewide and nation support

New York State Whitetail Management Coalition, Inc.

Local Community Support:

Sullivan County Legislature, Greene County Legislatures,

Sullivan County Farm Bureau, Ulster County Legislature,

Ulster County Farm Bureau, Schoharie County Board of Supervisors,

Delaware County Chamber of Commerce, Delaware County Farm Bureau,

Delaware County Economic Development, Delaware County Board of Supervisors,

Delaware County Legislature, Schoharie County Farm Bureau

Surveys

DEC Survey March 2009

67.1% Support Antler Restrictions in the proposed units 19.9% oppose. This Represents a

super majority, not just a majority and meets the DEC's arbitrary numbers for implementing

Antler Restrictions in new areas.

Cornell HDRU 2007 – 63% support yearling buck protection and 15% against them in the

proposed area and 59% said it would improve hunting satisfaction.

NYSCC Survey found 81% for Antler Restrictions in the 8 proposed units and 61% statewide

for Antler Restrictions.

New York Bowhunters Survey 2010 found 65% of their members in favor of antler

restrictions.

Tiger Survey found 75% for new buck management and 65% not happy with NYS deer

management.

Public Meetings Surveys all found over 90% support for Antler Restrictions from Delaware,

Sullivan Ulster and Schoharie Counties.

Delaware Department of Economic Development Survey found 90.7% for it and 9.3 against

Antler Restrictions.

ARs are what the local folks want, they have overwhelming support and they work. If you are not in the areas proposed perhaps you should apply the concept of home rule and let those folks have the say as to what happens in their back yards.

I am surprised that there appear to be several vocal opponents on this site.  Other sites I visit are strongly in support of ARs

Interesting...  The last few bucks taken off our property weighed in at 180 and 190 respectively...  As I said before, the local butcher needed to buy bigger boxes. All thanks to AR, and letting the little guys walk.

Same here!