Bear vers 12ga

[Hunter007]

 

[Hunter007]

 

[G-Man]

12 ga is good bear medicine

[Pygmy]

No shoulder fired chambering is going to "knock a bear off his feet"...unless you hit the CNS or  break down the shoulders...

A 20 MM might do it....

Same goes for deer and other medium to big game  animals...Those who think that you can "knock down"  a game animal with energy are full of shit...

HIT or perhaps "come close to"  the CNS and shoulders and the animal goes down..Other than that, with a  vital hit, such as  a double lung or heart shot, the animal will usually go a short distance, but not very far..

[Hunter007]

1 hour ago, Pygmy said:

No shoulder fired chambering is going to "knock a bear off his feet"...unless you hit the CNS or  break down the shoulders...

A 20 MM might do it....

Same goes for deer and other medium to big game  animals...Those who think that you can "knock down"  a game animal with energy are full of shit...

HIT or perhaps "come close to"  the CNS and shoulders and the animal goes down..Other than that, with a  vital hit, such as  a double lung or heart shot, the animal will usually go a short distance, but not very far..

 

Bear  looks like it was knocked off it feet temporarily 

Or should I say put off balance for a few seconds 

Edited November 11, 2018 by Storm914

[Pygmy]

He certainly reacted to the shot,  But I wouldn't say he was knocked off his feet...He did a jump and then a roll... I have never shot a bear, but have seen a couple shot and watched some videos, and they tend to react violently to a hit from a bullet OR an arrow,,

[Hunter007]

Look at the slow motion part a few times looks like it made him loose balance and stubble for a few seconds.  

[Pygmy]

Okay Stormy...I don't intend to argue this all night....Certainly  he may have lost his balance and stumbled...Still, I don't think that equates to being " knocked off his feet" by sheer energy alone...  I'll let the   FOOT POUNDS OF ENERGY boys believe what they want to believe, and I'll stand by what I have witnessed from seeing a few hundred game animals killed over the last  50 years...

[Hunter007]

23 minutes ago, Pygmy said:

Okay Stormy...I don't intend to argue this all night....Certainly  he may have lost his balance and stumbled...Still, I don't think that equates to being " knocked off his feet" by sheer energy alone...  I'll let the   FOOT POUNDS OF ENERGY boys believe what they want to believe, and I'll stand by what I have witnessed from seeing a few hundred game animals killed over the last  50 years...

Fair enough I agree  

[nyslowhand]

5 hours ago, Pygmy said:

A 20 MM might do it....

Where can I get a 20mm rifle? Any scope suggestion? Would I need a recoil pad? Don't think my tree stand is large enough for a turret mount!?! 

[Hunter007]

10 minutes ago, nyslowhand said:

Where can I get a 20mm rifle? Any scope suggestion? Would I need a recoil pad? Don't think my tree stand is large enough for a turret mount!?! 

Ask this guy he probably build you a  20mm muzzle loader if you got the bucks

 

 

[Pygmy]

7 hours ago, nyslowhand said:

Where can I get a 20mm rifle? Any scope suggestion? Would I need a recoil pad? Don't think my tree stand is large enough for a turret mount!?! 

I remember back in the 1960's  you could buy a couple of different models  of  20 MM anti-tank rifles through the mail...One I recall was the  Lahti, and I believe the shells were about 3 or 4 bucks apiece...Clint Eastwood used a surplus anti-tank rifle in the movie " Thunderbolt and Lightfoot" to blow open a bank vault..

[nyslowhand]

So... anti-tank relates to being brown bear approved!??!

[Rattler]

I once shot a bear with a rifled bolt action 12 gauge slug gun.  I used a sabot slug @ 75 yards.  Perfect heart shot.  The bear took one leap and went only 10 yards, where it hit the ground motionless.

I've heard many Alaskan Grizzly guides like to use a 12 gauge pump shotgun with slugs for their defensive firearm when guiding bear hunters.  It offers the most energy at close range, in a reliable handy arm, for the least expense.

[Pygmy]

45 minutes ago, Rattler said:

I once shot a bear with a rifled bolt action 12 gauge slug gun.  I used a sabot slug @ 75 yards.  Perfect heart shot.  The bear took one leap and went only 10 yards, where it hit the ground motionless.

I've heard many Alaskan Grizzly guides like to use a 12 gauge pump shotgun with slugs for their defensive firearm when guiding bear hunters.  It offers the most energy at close range, in a reliable handy arm, for the least expense.

Shotguns are carried extensively by Game Wardens , fishing guides and private citizens in Alaska...They are light and offer  a decent degree of protection when chances of having to use one  to defend yourself are fairly low..

However, I think if you take a poll of  guides who actually take hunters after brown/grizzly bears  and stand a real chance of having to stop a charge or  prevent a wounded bear from escaping, you will find that most of them carry a medium to heavy caliber rifle...The  .375 H&H is very popular, and  various .416s and .458s are quite common also.

[Rattler]

Now that you mention it, I do recall bear guides will shoot at your bear after you do, if it doesn't drop right there, just to insure it's found dead when they have to track it.  They would need a good rifle to do that.

Maybe it was Salmon fishing guides I heard about.  There is no doubt about the massive energy a 12 gauge slug provides at close range though.

 

[Daveboone]

The bear camps I have been in very heartily approved of the 12 gauge for bear. Ample accuracy for the typical bait distances, plenty of power. Few hunters bring them though.

[Hunter007]

2 hours ago, Daveboone said:

The bear camps I have been in very heartily approved of the 12 gauge for bear. Ample accuracy for the typical bait distances, plenty of power. Few hunters bring them though.

Dont know if it be my first choice  but 

I would only  use something like this  for large dangerous game at close range. 

https://www.brennekeusa.com/hunting-ammunition/black-magicr-magnum/

Pretty sure that would do the trick 

Says has over 2200 foot pounds at 25 yards and 1750  at 50 yards 

 

Over 3000 at the muzzle. 

Edited November 11, 2018 by Storm914

[Daveboone]

My first choice for my first bear hunt was a 300 win mag, as I was strongly instructed was necessary by a couple of other bear hunters. The only bear I saw that week was a small bear at last light the last day. the shot blew through the poor thing leaving half its guts behind and a section of three ribs. the bear still ran about 60 yards. I was horrified, and retired the gun on the spot. I then went to a 45-70 for my next five hunts, all resulting in one shot knock downs. Mind you, not necessarily knocked off their feet, but they collapsed on the spot without the horrible excess trauma (all following bears were mature bears). 

[Pygmy]

The Brenneke type slugs are far superior to foster type slugs...

The fosters  often do not penetrate well....Brennekes do...  When I was hunting with a 20 gauge my favorite slugs were Ficocchi  brennekes...Got nearly end to end penetration on a couple of deer...That never happened when I was using foster slugs...

Eventually I switched to a rifled 12 gauge and BRI sabot slugs...They were good penetrators also, but the blood trails weren't as good as with the brennekes..

Edited November 12, 2018 by Pygmy

[Hunter007]

8 hours ago, Pygmy said:

The Brenneke type slugs are far superior to foster type slugs...

The fosters  often do not penetrate well....Brennekes do...  When I was hunting with a 20 gauge my favorite slugs were Ficocchi  brennekes...Got nearly end to end penetration on a couple of deer...That never happened when I was using foster slugs...

Eventually I switched to a rifled 12 gauge and BRI sabot slugs...They were good penetrators also, but the blood trails weren't as good as with the brennekes..

Yes I think brenneke use more alloys  to increase the hardness  of there  lead slugs. 

 

 

Edited November 13, 2018 by Storm914

[kpkot]

On 11/11/2018 at 7:25 AM, Pygmy said:

I remember back in the 1960's  you could buy a couple of different models  of  20 MM anti-tank rifles through the mail...One I recall was the  Lahti, and I believe the shells were about 3 or 4 bucks apiece...Clint Eastwood used a surplus anti-tank rifle in the movie " Thunderbolt and Lightfoot" to blow open a bank vault..

I had a friend that purchased one around 2008. $19k! $50 per round if you loaded it yourself.  It broke apart in two pieces. Together it was just over 100lbs. You cranked a handle I think three times load round..... Crazy gun