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US ARMY ADOPTING NEW BATTLE RIFLE

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tommyc50 Newbie

tommyc50

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11 minutes ago, Renegade Hunter said:

Well they still need the marksmen to make it work... And we Marines know the Army can’t shoot worth a shit. 

in the words of R Lee ERMEY - OOOOOooooo  Raaaahhhhh!!!!!! so I think a little history is in order well that little toy m 16/ar 15 was the brain child of Eugene stoner and the armalite co.sold it to the air force security force  and Robert mac Namara see it [ you know him the numbers man who worked for ford] and liked that the ammo was smaller and a GI  could carry more ammo[numbers,numbers]. The army hated it but mac namara got his way and they issued it to troops in Vietnam with out cleaning kits cause the barrel was chromed and it didn't need cleaning, well they found out they were wrong the hard way. my step grand father was in Europe in WWII and he said the m1 carbine was useless cause it wouldn't penetrate the heavy over coats that the germans wore and couldn't compare to the m1 Garand and 30-06 . OH as far as marines give them a sling shot and they'll kill something with it[ the best marks men there are] folks this is my opinion its ok if you disagree but be nice lol 

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Pygmy Experienced

Pygmy

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A short action .270  compared to the power of a tank round  ??

Give me a friggen' BREAK !!…. How is such a round going to be significantly superior to the 7.62x51, other than  the ammo being somewhat lighter and the long range ballistics being marginally superior..??

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Rattler Newbie

Rattler

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From the comments section of the article......

Bradford Betz, the reporter who wrote this article, needs to reread the source material: "Task and Purpose quotes Col. Geoffrey A. Norman saying, “The chamber pressure for the standard assault rifle is around 45 KSI [kilopound per square inch], but we’re looking for between 60 and 80 KSI … the chamber pressure when an M1 Abrams tank fires is on that order.”" That quote makes sense, what Betz wrote doesn't. As to some of the other comments about the Army's choice of rounds some folks need to read some history of why particular rounds were chosen. For example, the 7.62 NATO rounds was chosen because the .30-'06 was lethal out to about 800 meters but the WWII combat range rarely went beyond 300 meters so a lighter round and rifle meant more round could be carried and having allies carry the same round simplified supply problems. Likewise the 5.56 round was chosen so more could be carried and our smaller allies at the time could handle it better. It made sense in the jungle where combat ranges were very short. Now we are meeting foes who stay further away and the 5.56 doesn't have the power to destroy more resistant targets at longer ranges so it's time to get a better weapon. But the garbage in this story about "tank pressures" adds nothing to the discussion and only exposes the writers lack of understanding of weapons.

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Pygmy Experienced

Pygmy

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The  M14 was ( and still is) a fine battle rifle...The only negative issue is the fact  that it is hard to control on full auto,   like other selective fire  rifles in that caliber, such as the  FN-Fal L1A1...

Fired semi auto it is as dependable and accurate as the  similar M1  and holds 12 or 22 more rounds...Due to the limitations of the M16 and M4, many M14s have been taken out of mothballs and used to good effect in Afganistan and The Middle East....

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wildcat junkie Contributor

wildcat junkie

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6 hours ago, Pygmy said:

The  M14 was ( and still is) a fine battle rifle...The only negative issue is the fact  that it is hard to control on full auto,   like other selective fire  rifles in that caliber, such as the  FN-Fal L1A1...

 

Stock geometry makes a world of difference in recoil management.

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CapDistPatriot Contributor

CapDistPatriot

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6 hours ago, Pygmy said:

The  M14 was ( and still is) a fine battle rifle...The only negative issue is the fact  that it is hard to control on full auto,   like other selective fire  rifles in that caliber, such as the  FN-Fal L1A1...

Fired semi auto it is as dependable and accurate as the  similar M1  and holds 12 or 22 more rounds...Due to the limitations of the M16 and M4, many M14s have been taken out of mothballs and used to good effect in Afganistan and The Middle East....

As designated unit marksman rifles, not as a replacement for the M-16/M-4

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CapDistPatriot Contributor

CapDistPatriot

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On 12/14/2018 at 4:41 PM, Renegade Hunter said:

Well they still need the marksmen to make it work... And we Marines know the Army can’t shoot worth a shit. 

Jarheads are all hype. It would be my pleasure to meet up with you at the range and serve you up a nice big 'ol bowl of crow 

 

Edited by CapDistPatriot
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Pygmy Experienced

Pygmy

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1 hour ago, wildcat junkie said:

 Stock geometry makes a world of difference in recoil management.

That is true, Dan... However recoil management in an 8 to 10 pound rifle is going to be an issue on full auto with a cartridge as powerful as the 7.62 x51, regardless of stock design...Not so much with the BAR, which weighed 20 pounds with a full mag...

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Renegade Hunter Newbie

Renegade Hunter

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1 hour ago, CapDistPatriot said:

Jarheads are all hype. It would be my pleasure to meet up with you at the range and serve you up a nice big 'ol bowl of crow 

 

Hey man, don’t mess with a 5 time rifle expert! Used to drill head shots at 500 yards with that ‘ol M-16 and an acog. I was really just kicking the tires to see if there were some salty Army vets on here lol. But trust me, I spent time with some Army soldiers and the hype is very real. Leaving their weapons laid on the floor of the chow hall? I think not! Not knowing what condition your rifle is in with magazine out, bolt forward and ejection port cover closed... Better get on your face, Devil. 

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CapDistPatriot Contributor

CapDistPatriot

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52 minutes ago, Renegade Hunter said:

Hey man, don’t mess with a 5 time rifle expert! Used to drill head shots at 500 yards with that ‘ol M-16 and an acog. I was really just kicking the tires to see if there were some salty Army vets on here lol. But trust me, I spent time with some Army soldiers and the hype is very real. Leaving their weapons laid on the floor of the chow hall? I think not! Not knowing what condition your rifle is in with magazine out, bolt forward and ejection port cover closed... Better get on your face, Devil. 

What kind of soldiers were you training with, nasty girls?! I was Armored Cav, RA, we were EXTREMELY squared away with the basics. When we went into Al Hit to take over for 3/1 Marines, they were a hot mess. Good guys and all, but when we went on our right seat ride before they left, we were shaking our heads...

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Steve D Experienced

Steve D

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2 hours ago, CapDistPatriot said:

Jarheads are all hype. It would be my pleasure to meet up with you at the range and serve you up a nice big 'ol bowl of crow 

I was kinder and politely offered a wager which is so not like me. A five time rifle expert may be tough to beat :vinsent:

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Pygmy Experienced

Pygmy

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8 minutes ago, Steve D said:

I was kinder and politely offered a wager which is so not like me. A five time rifle expert may be tough to beat :vinsent:

I'm keeping MY mouth shut...I  was just a Postal Clerk  in the Navy...My only claim to fame was that I was probably the best liked enlisted man aboard my ship...EVERYBODY liked the mailman...

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Renegade Hunter Newbie

Renegade Hunter

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50 minutes ago, CapDistPatriot said:

What kind of soldiers were you training with, nasty girls?! I was Armored Cav, RA, we were EXTREMELY squared away with the basics. When we went into Al Hit to take over for 3/1 Marines, they were a hot mess. Good guys and all, but when we went on our right seat ride before they left, we were shaking our heads...

No these were some boot soldiers down in San Angelo. I’m just poking. Def some top flight dudes in all branches without a doubt. And the Marine Corps has its fair share of Shit bags. And I’ve been to the range with plenty of Marines that couldn’t shoot lol. But don’t you dare get me started on those sailors!! (Grin) 

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CapDistPatriot Contributor

CapDistPatriot

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3 minutes ago, Renegade Hunter said:

No these were some boot soldiers down in San Angelo. I’m just poking. Def some top flight dudes in all branches without a doubt. And the Marine Corps has its fair share of Shit bags. And I’ve been to the range with plenty of Marines that couldn’t shoot lol. But don’t you dare get me started on those sailors!! (Grin) 

We have just as many $hitbag privates and POGUES we cannot really talk $hit, although we do. Just conducting business...:search:

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CapDistPatriot Contributor

CapDistPatriot

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20 minutes ago, Steve D said:

I was kinder and politely offered a wager which is so not like me. A five time rifle expert may be tough to beat :vinsent:

If he hit expert on his annual qualifier 5 years that IS good. Takes alot of talent to do so. I always hit sharpshooter, but if i had an acog i would be in there like swimwear. We never got to shoot with glass until we deployed. Shooting with the tools WE use as hunters, with high end optics and ideal conditions, however, is a cakewalk.

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Renegade Hunter Newbie

Renegade Hunter

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26 minutes ago, CapDistPatriot said:

If he hit expert on his annual qualifier 5 years that IS good. Takes alot of talent to do so. I always hit sharpshooter, but if i had an acog i would be in there like swimwear. We never got to shoot with glass until we deployed. Shooting with the tools WE use as hunters, with high end optics and ideal conditions, however, is a cakewalk.

I did have the opportunity in boot camp to qualify expert with iron sights. That was pretty awesome. Shot the highest in my platoon. Have the certificate somewhere. Once I got to the fleet it was 4 times with glass. Managed to hustle 20 bucks off a SSGT one time. Always wondered what I could do with a little heavier round and a good set of high powered optics. Not to mention I had to shoot in 29 palms with 20 mph cross winds using Kentucky windage!! 

And I appreciate it, Cap. 

Edited by Renegade Hunter
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