NY Senate Committee Hearing

[WNYBuckHunter]

HAHA, sounds good bud! 

[bpb]

  I watched it live as it happened and wanted to kick my monitor in after the comment; "The crossbow is the prefered tool of poachers."

The wack job has that ingrained as truth needs to be removed from the sporting community and place in a 24 hour care facility.

That's the kind of question I like to ask for the records on in a meeting.

[sits in trees]

  I watched it live as it happened and wanted to kick my monitor in after the comment; "The crossbow is the prefered tool of poachers."

The wack job has that ingrained as truth needs to be removed from the sporting community and place in a 24 hour care facility.

That's the kind of question I like to ask for the records on in a meeting.

thats why we need to organize here in NY, when the only guy at the meeting is a clown from the NY bowhunters inc cartel thats what you get. can you imagine a crossbow as a poachers weapon??? ya i'm sure every jacklighting road cruising poacher cant wait to get a crossbow for poaching..

[Chevy]

The poachers use the crossgun to jack deer silently from their vehicles. One guy drives and the other shoots out the side window from inside the vehicle. This is possible because the crossgun is mounted on a stock like a rifle and does not need to be drawn back which makes it able to be shot from inside a car in a sitting position. Stick it outside the window and now you have a nice bench rest. Poachers weapon of choice. Should be illegal during archery season.

[SteveB]

Care to post some actual proof of that claim?

Poachers caught around here generally choose the 22 cal by a huge margin. Never heard of a crossBOW being used at all. And if they did, whether or not they are a legal weapon in any season has no bearing on a poacher using one. Not illegal to own one now. By your logic, 22 rifles should be outlawed as well.

[Chevy]

I have as much proof as you do about the 22 cal Steve. Where is your proof?  Besides the legislature and the DEC agree with me regarding the crossgun as the weapon of choice for poachers. 

[WNYBuckHunter]

Please explain to me why someone would poach deer out the window of a vehicle with a crossbow. 9.5 out of 10 models of crossbow are 17 inches wide or more and would be completely awkward to try and pop out of the window of a vehicle. Not to mention their range is only 40, maybe 50 yards effectively in the open. Show me one news article or proof that a deer has EVER been poached in NY with a crossbow. I could find articles describing deer poaching with rifles, shotguns, running them over with snowmobiles, etc. Your agreement with a bunch of anti hunters calling crossbows a weapon of choice for poachers is unfounded and pretty sickening to hear come out of a fellow sportsmans mouth. Way to help further the cause of the anti-hunter, anti-gun lobby and speed up the demise of our sport.

Oh and youd better check your facts as to who carries the same ridiculous opinion that you do, because its not the DEC or state legislature, its NYB and their minions (however few of them there are).

[SteveB]

WNY - Don't hold your breath waiting for a reply - you will turn very blue ;D

Chevy - you made the claim - back it up let us laugh at the foolishness of it.

[Chevy]

Sour grapes guys??  What is sickening to me is the attempted hijack of the archery season using every lie and name calling in the book. 

[SteveB]

So no proof to your claim?

[WNYBuckHunter]

Where are the lies and/or name calling?

Nobody is trying hijack archery season, just trying to put all of the different archery equipment into one season, separate from firearms.

[brador7]

I have to reply to the ..."regarding the crossgun as the weapon of choice for poachers" remark. It could not be any more false. Last Year's operation "Shell Shock" crack down on poachers net NO poachers using the Crossbow. In fact when I have asked our local DEC Lt and Capt in the past, over the years (over 20) very few have poachers have been caught with a crossbow. Actually more poaching crimes have been with the "vertical" bow and rifles (various Cals)

[bpb]

The poachers use the crossgun to jack deer silently from their vehicles. One guy drives and the other shoots out the side window from inside the vehicle. This is possible because the crossgun is mounted on a stock like a rifle and does not need to be drawn back which makes it able to be shot from inside a car in a sitting position. Stick it outside the window and now you have a nice bench rest. Poachers weapon of choice. Should be illegal during archery season.

AH BS!!! :    You think I was born yesterday and just stepped into hunting today? ???

 

Like Steve asked, show us the  numbers. Come on show them to me. In fact, you call the DEC and tell them I'm still waiting on those numbers I asked for.

Odd how the state of Wyo has a FAQ on their web site and they call that a myth.

No it's not sour grapes, I'll tell you this, some of you guys keep on blowing smoke up everyone's ass and you'll soon find out what a sour grape taste like.

 

Show us the numbers.

  bpb

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Weapon of choice for poachers???? are you kidding me...Let's put ourselves in the poachers shoes.  I pull up...see a deer...no one is around....K...I am gonna take it. Now let's remember this is a bolt...with a broadhead just like a bow. Short of a head or spine shot that deer is running. As a poacher the last thing I would want to be doing is following a blood trail with a light in the woods or someone's backyard  after dark. I would want one quick shot and know that deer is going in a heap. I just don't see it. I have searched the web and can find no statistical evidence of that being true short of peopl just claiming it. The problem with this era we live in is....if it is heard or said enough it "becomes" truth.

[WNYBuckHunter]

It seems to me that most of the lies about anything that I have heard have come from the opposite side of the coin. My examples?

The first one would be the poacher line, just pure out BS with absolutely ZERO facts to back up the claim.

Second, the crossbow range claim of it being easily accurate out to distances of 100 yards, yeah, not in a hunting situation and vertical bows are just as capable in the right conditions.

Third, the term "crossgun", which is BS at its best, there is no such thing as a crossgun.

Fourth, the misconception that a bolt isnt an arrow. Yes it is, its a short arrow with a more stiff spine and a different type of nock.

Number five, you dont need the same woodsmanship skills to hunt with a crossbow as a bow. Malarkey, you still have to get close enough, get the crossbow up and steady and choose a shot in a clear shooting lane. Twigs, leaves, weeds and branches have the same effect on a crossbow's bolt as a vertical bow's arrow.

Should I go on? 

[jpcon]

well one thing you may have forgot, is the fact that after you raise the crossbow to shoot you DON'T have to make the huge movement to pull it back , or is my anchor point correct on a dificult hang out of the stand shot and most have a scope with cross hare out to 45 yards , no guess work there , or how about the low lite factor with high power scope . there is no equal here . hands down it does not take the same woodsman ship. i have been bow hunting since 1985 and the cross bow thing is bs. if you want to hunt with across bow then do it durring rifle season.

[SteveB]

i have been bow hunting since 1985 and the cross bow thing is bs

Sounds like you do it for the challange. Must mean you have been using a recurve or longbow instead of a compound with letoff, site and a trigger. Good for you.

[WNYBuckHunter]

well one thing you may have forgot, is the fact that after you raise the crossbow to shoot you DON'T have to make the huge movement to pull it back , or is my anchor point correct on a dificult hang out of the stand shot and most have a scope with cross hare out to 45 yards , no guess work there , or how about the low lite factor with high power scope . there is no equal here . hands down it does not take the same woodsman ship. i have been bow hunting since 1985 and the cross bow thing is bs. if you want to hunt with across bow then do it durring rifle season.

Really? I usually take my draw when the deer's head is behind a tree or its obstructed in some other way, so when Im ready to shoot, the deer never saw my draw or when I raised the bow. Youre nuts if you think Id sit there with a heavy crossbow shouldered before the deer was in range. The same amount of motion is required to pull the trigger on a bow or crossbow. You have obviously never shot a crossbow in your life if you think you can use a scope to sight it in properly for 0 to 45 yards without adjusting your aim point. Its pretty much like shooting a bow with one pin, you move it up or down depending on range. BTW, I have a light on my bow site, it works plenty well in low light. Your accusations and statements are BS, backed up by zero facts. Sounds like NYB or some other anti-crossbow rhetoric to me.

[Chevy]

You loose all credibility when you try to argue it takes the same amount of motion to pull the trigger of a crossgun as it does to draw a bow. give me a break. and by the way, that is the main reason it belongs in gun season (its locked and loaded point and shoot).

[Culvercreek hunt club]

You din't listen to him Chevy. He said it takes the same motion to pull the trigger on a crossbow as it does to pull the trigger on a release. Heis premise is drawing while the deers head was behind a tree or obstructed.

[Doc]

well one thing you may have forgot, is the fact that after you raise the crossbow to shoot you DON'T have to make the huge movement to pull it back , or is my anchor point correct on a dificult hang out of the stand shot and most have a scope with cross hare out to 45 yards , no guess work there , or how about the low lite factor with high power scope . there is no equal here . hands down it does not take the same woodsman ship. i have been bow hunting since 1985 and the cross bow thing is bs. if you want to hunt with across bow then do it durring rifle season.

Really? I usually take my draw when the deer's head is behind a tree or its obstructed in some other way, so when Im ready to shoot, the deer never saw my draw or when I raised the bow.

A little detail you needn't concern yourself with if you have a crossbow .... right?

Youre nuts if you think Id sit there with a heavy crossbow shouldered before the deer was in range.

That's why they sell that nifty bipod that mounts under your stock. Or maybe a nice kneeling shot with your elbow braced on your knee while you wait for the deer to approach shooting range. Heck with the right conditions, you might even want to use a prone position. If your in a ground blind, you can use the old trick that I do when gun hunting. Provide a horizontal shooting rest (a log or a downed tree) so you can actually bench rest the crossbow. Yeah, it seems like you have a whole lot of options.

The same amount of motion is required to pull the trigger on a bow or crossbow.

When that's all you have to worry about is squeezing the trigger, you're absolutely right.

You have obviously never shot a crossbow in your life if you think you can use a scope to sight it in properly for 0 to 45 yards without adjusting your aim point. Its pretty much like shooting a bow with one pin, you move it up or down depending on range.

So, all those scopes that I see on just about every crossbow in the catalogs are just for show. Nobody really buys them because they aren't any better than a bow with one pin.

BTW, I have a light on my bow site, it works plenty well in low light.

I think Chevy might have been talking about the light-gathering effect of a scope on the whole image and not just on your sight pin. I don't know. That is a quality of some of the more expensive scopes. I know on my shotgun scope, I am always amazed at the kind of detail I can see through my scope in some rather ridiculously low-light conditions that I could never see without the scope.

[WNYBuckHunter]

You loose all credibility when you try to argue it takes the same amount of motion to pull the trigger of a crossgun as it does to draw a bow. give me a break. and by the way, that is the main reason it belongs in gun season (its locked and loaded point and shoot).

Is that what I said? No, it isnt. Go back and read what I said and dont twist the words around my friend. 

[WNYBuckHunter]

You din't listen to him Chevy. He said it takes the same motion to pull the trigger on a crossbow as it does to pull the trigger on a release. Heis premise is drawing while the deers head was behind a tree or obstructed.

Now theres someone that was paying attention!  ;D

[WNYBuckHunter]

Doc, if you took the time to format your reply the right way, I might be able to desipher everything that comes up when I click on quote. Ill just respond in order....

- you still have to raise the crossbow out of the sight of the deer. Seeing as a crossbow is much wider, you would have to be just about as careful bringing it up because a skinny tree isnt going to hide it as effectively. So yes, you still have to worry about the deer seeing you.

- you are trying to tell me that you sit there with your finger on the trigger and gun at the ready all day long? I just dont buy it because its a crock.

- when you are ready to shoot your bow, all you should be worrying about is a proper release, your form should be in place and ready to go before you hit that trigger. If not, you are most likely not going to make the shot anyway.

- I never said that the scopes arent effective at the range they are dialed in for, I said that you still need to adjust your aim point (you know, the spot that you want to hit on the target) vs where the crosshairs or red dot are set. Example, in case you dont get it: say the animal is at 20 yards and your scope is set for 45 yards, the arrow is going to hit high at 20 yards, so you aim low in order to hit the animal where you want to. Like I said, the same thing as if you shoot a bow with a single pin.

- I know what chevy was talking about, I am just saying that I can shoot my bow effectively after shooting hours expire just as silently as a crossbow. Does it mean I am going to do it? No. Why would a crossbow tempt me to do the same thing? Now here is where you should try reading more into my statement than what I wrote. 

[jpcon]

I guess before you draw your bow you must wait till all 10 deer under you look away or stick their heads behind a tree in the middle of a field ,   or maybee you can hold out till after dark and stiil see throu the 9x40 scope you have just like a rifle just no after dark boom. Listen hands down there is no comparison between traditional archery with cedar arrows or even modern compound ,to a cross bow locked and loaded with scope and shooting sticks.let me ask you if you were hunting deer with a pump shotgun in a tree stand would you chamber a round or keep them in the magazine and rack in a round when the deer has his head behind a tree , its the same thing.cross bow locked and loaded just pull the trigger