Either Sex Tag for Gun Season

[Qthehunter]

Over the years I've found myself more and more frustrated with the NYCDEC and their system. Where I hunt in 4Y there are loads of does. If I had to estimate I would say there are at least 10 does to 1 buck in my area.

This year I applied for a doe tag and did not draw one. My father, my co worker, and my brother-in-law all applied and did not get a DMP tag either.

My family makes an honest attempt at letting the small bucks "get bigger" and often cull bucks we think are inferior. I'm at the point where I love venison and do not want to use a buck tag and harvest a buck just because I have nothing else to use.

My thoughts are to make the reg. season tag an either sex, similar to the bow/mz season tag. And yes, I am an avid bow hunter and also have a muzzle loader tag. I've exhausted all of the options and have given the DEC all of my money but still seem to be light on the tags.

What are they thinking? Are they not seeing what I am seeing? The does are so overrun here and yet DMP tags are hard to come by?

Any thoughts?

[Deerthug]

I hunt in 4Y also and in the six years I've been hunting in that area, I've always drawn a DMP in my area. This year however, when I applied I was rejected. But on October 30th I actually received a DMP in the mail with a letter from DEC saying that although I applied and was rejected, there were left over DMPs as they did not receive as many applications as they thought so they sent one to me. One of my hunting buddies also got his in the mail about a week later. I'm not sure if they did a blind lottery or based it upon preference points since I got one point when I applied. If it was a lottery, then it was the first lottery I've ever won. Of course I would prefer Powerball or Lotto, but I was as happy as a pig in sh*t knowing that I can at least fill my freezer this year with a doe. So there still may be hope for you to get one.

As far as 4Y being overrun by does, you are 100% right. I was so surprised that I didn't get a DMP knowing what is running around out there. There are way too many does in the fields that I hunt and most in my group have taken one during the past 6 years.

Edited November 11, 2011 by Deerthug

[5.9cummins]

For the most part i don't see any issues with how DMP's are issued. The greatest number of DMPs gets doled out in the lake plains region in western NY and the finger lakes and there are a ton of deer there. A lot get handed out in the southern tier but again its not as much as the lake planes and few to none get handed out in the St. Lawrence seaway and the ADKs respectively. That being said i don't have a whole lot of experience with region 4 aside from spending some time in Otsego and Delaware counties.

[Dad 6424]

I hunt mainly in 4o, if you dont own land you dont get DMPS. There were people that had 2or 3 pref,points and still did not get . I have had many deer aged by dec. I have shot does in this area (own land and live on it ) that have been aged a 12 years plus it drives me nuts they say there are to many deer then theres no tags then to open a cross bow season and run it with muzzle loader season Wow

[WNYBuckHunter]

I hunt mainly in 4o, if you dont own land you dont get DMPS. There were people that had 2or 3 pref,points and still did not get . I have had many deer aged by dec. I have shot does in this area (own land and live on it ) that have been aged a 12 years plus it drives me nuts they say there are to many deer then theres no tags then to open a cross bow season and run it with muzzle loader season Wow

Have you read the actual plan? If not, you should because its not what you have been told apparently.

[gunner1]

I live in 4s and they gave out ZERO DMP's this year! I have a trail cam out and have pics of five does and dawns at one time! But there's no deer they say. I did get one for 4y though. I always apply to 3f and 4y because I have two different places to hunt in those areas. Unfortunately, game management has become political in this state and that's not a good thing.

[steve863]

My theory has always been that everyone should be issued two tags. One for a buck and one for a doe that could be used anywhere in the state. And this would be all you'd get regardless of the season or weapon you decide to use. If you fill them both in bow season, you are done for the season. The DEC could issue extra DMP's in areas where they think it's needed and people could apply for those. I doubt this will ever happen, but I think it would work well and keep deer populations at a good level and keep most hunters out there happy other than those who want kill up to a half dozen deer or more per season like they currently can in some areas with the current system.

Edited November 11, 2011 by steve863

[arrow nocker]

i hope they dont change the way it is.Has worked fine so far.

[shantysitter]

Having to many deer in a area is a good thing, Pa used to have that "problem" then they gave out way to many doe tags. It isn't to much fun going in the woods and not seeing anything. At least you can see some deer then can shoot a doe if you want with a muzzleloader or bow. In Pa you can"t shoot what's not there. Can't wait for Southern Tier 8 days

[WNYBuckHunter]

Having to many deer in a area is a good thing

Good for who? The hunters or the deer? A properly managed herd is good for both the hunter and the deer. What do you think an either sex tag in the hands of every hunter during gun season is going to do? Especially in the areas of the state with low deer populations?

[Qthehunter]

Good for who? The hunters or the deer? A properly managed herd is good for both the hunter and the deer. What do you think an either sex tag in the hands of every hunter during gun season is going to do? Especially in the areas of the state with low deer populations?

I'd say 9 out of 10 are going to shoot a buck, big or small. Hard horn get's people crazy.

I just don't understand where the DEC gets their survey and information from. If they are basing it off of how many people "call" in their harvest then I imagine their count way off. Let's talk about how many people DON'T call their deer in.

On a side note, 2 weeks into gun season last year I had some family push a 10 acre piece of woods while I stood in a stand on the other side of a field. Needless to say, I counted 40, yes 40 does and there was only 1 buck in the group. Yes, there could of been buttons or very small bucks in the batch, but come on. There is no reason why I should be seeing a group like that with no bucks running in it.

Half of the reason why I do not bother rattling or using a grunt tube anymore. Why does a buck want to follow my call? He's probably sitting next to 10-12 does already. Why fight?

Edited November 11, 2011 by Qthehunter

[WNYBuckHunter]

I'd say 9 out of 10 are going to shoot a buck, big or small. Hard horn get's people crazy.

I just don't understand where the DEC gets their survey and information from. If they are basing it off of how many people "call" in their harvest then I imagine their count way off. Let's talk about how many people DON'T call their deer in.

On a side note, 2 weeks into gun season last year I had some family push a 10 acre piece of woods while I stood in a stand on the other side of a field. Needless to say, I counted 40, yes 40 does and there was only 1 buck in the group. Yes, there could of been buttons or very small bucks in the batch, but come on. There is no reason why I should be seeing a group like that with no bucks running in it.

On your first point, I disagree. I feel that most people are going to shoot the first deer they see if they can shoot either sex.

The DEC has many ways it gets its data, and while it may not be perfect, its not just from people that report their harvests. Do some searches on the DEC website, or shoot your local office an email, they can point you in the direction of info on what you want to know.

If the numbers on your land are that skewed, well, Id say there was a problem.I would also say that you cant base a good count on deer in an area upon what happened with 1 drive of 10 acres of land. You ever see what a smart deer does during a drive? He stays dead still and sneaks out after the pushers go by.

[shantysitter]

Having to many deer in a area is a good thing, Pa used to have that "problem" then they gave out way to many doe tags. It isn't to much fun going in the woods and not seeing anything. At least you can see some deer then can shoot a doe if you want with a muzzleloader or bow. In Pa you can"t shoot what's not there. Can't wait for Southern Tier 8 days

Good for who? The hunters or the deer? A properly managed herd is good for both the hunter and the deer. What do you think an either sex tag in the hands of every hunter during gun season is going to do? Especially in the areas of the state with low deer populations?

To many deer is better than to few.Drive Pa roads , most of the deer you see dead along the road are bucks, How many miles did that buck run lookingfor a doe before it met it's demize by an 18 wheeler. You will always have areas where there is going to heavier doe populations thanks to the inventions of "Posted Signs"..Wmu are to large to properly manage a herd.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Nobody is saying WMUs are not too large to really manage in the best way. Go drive NY roads right now, most of the deer you will find hit are bucks. Regardless of how many does are in an area, bucks move long distances this time of the year.

Again, I ask, what do YOU think is going to happen with an either sex tag in every gun hunter's hand in the state?

[Dom]

Im not sure how the dec.gets there number of deer in an area.I know there are greater numbers in most local areas then known.In my area there are way more doe than bucks/atleast thats what i see here.With that said i to believe more tags should be givin out.

[hunterjohn]

my thought you should earn your buck tag like many other states have done and the bucks get bigger and the hurds are controled ... just a thought

Edited November 12, 2011 by hunterjohn

[Doc]

I am not in love with the DMP system and I believe there are flaws in the establishment of quotas and all that. However, I am not ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater. As flawed as the system is, it still does a reasonable job of controlling populations. It certainly is better than anything else that I have ever heard suggested. And it is WAY better than just arbitrarily handing out either-sex tags to every gunner. That would be a complete surrender on any type of managed population control.

[the blur]

I hunt mainly in 4o, if you dont own land you dont get DMPS. There were people that had 2or 3 pref,points and still did not get . I have had many deer aged by dec. I have shot does in this area (own land and live on it ) that have been aged a 12 years plus it drives me nuts they say there are to many deer then theres no tags then to open a cross bow season and run it with muzzle loader season Wow

We had a hunting lease in 4O. 4 guys, I bailed out for this reason. But the rest of the party still hunts there.

[orion]

Qthe Hunter,

You can shoot 2 doe with your bow and muzzleloader tags and then shoot a doe with your regular tag during the last season if you don't shoot a buck.

You think 3 isn't enough?

[Qthehunter]

Qthe Hunter,

You can shoot 2 doe with your bow and muzzleloader tags and then shoot a doe with your regular tag during the last season if you don't shoot a buck.

You think 3 isn't enough?

I normally do not get to go out late season. It's now or never. I tried to burn my buck tag on a doe this past weekend with no success. You see does all day long, but when you go out to harvest one, for some reason they do not show up

[orion]

"You see does all day long, but when you go out to harvest one, for some reason they do not show up"

They know!!!