Heaviest buck day in NY

[Foggy Mountain]

32 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

Did you ever kill any up there when hunting as a kid, and look at the stomach contents ? 

Most of the bucks I have killed in WNY were early rut, but the few late rut (thanksgiving weekend) ones had basically empty stomachs even though there was plenty of food in the area.

In stark contrast were my 2014 and 2016 Adirondack bucks both of which had full stomachs.  This leads me to believe, like moog says, peak weight may be property specific.

What dmu do you hunt currently and what day would you estimate that bucks reach their peak weight there ?

Not gonna argue if deer in your area with 2 deer as “experience” having you believing these deer run contrary to whitetail ecology so be it. Remember after the rut the food sources are actually winding down. Remember too by a bit after the rut they are aggressively eating again to regain weight, hence full stomachs again, , they still aren’t likely to hit late summer, early fall weight. Walk stage is pretty obvious its most commonly max weight time. That goes for anywhere. They’ve bulked up all summer, food was the most abundant, movement not as extensive. 
I must digress about the summer thing. Extreme Parts of Fla have peak rut mid summer from my understanding. In that case it’d change things. I only mention to cover my words. 
Yes I’ve killed plenty of deer all over for many years. 
Just something to think about, what was exact weight on your deer when you shot them? Now what was their exact weight just before walk phase? Bet you don’t know. How could you???

Open minds are good, we’re all wrong, I am as well,  but you’re saying nothing that makes any sense as already stated. Trying harder to prove it makes you spin your wheels in attempt at traction. 
 

[wolc123]

3 hours ago, Foggy Mountain said:

Not gonna argue if deer in your area with 2 deer as “experience” having you believing these deer run contrary to whitetail ecology so be it. Remember after the rut the food sources are actually winding down. Remember too by a bit after the rut they are aggressively eating again to regain weight, hence full stomachs again, , they still aren’t likely to hit late summer, early fall weight. Walk stage is pretty obvious its most commonly max weight time. That goes for anywhere. They’ve bulked up all summer, food was the most abundant, movement not as extensive. 
I must digress about the summer thing. Extreme Parts of Fla have peak rut mid summer from my understanding. In that case it’d change things. I only mention to cover my words. 
Yes I’ve killed plenty of deer all over for many years. 
Just something to think about, what was exact weight on your deer when you shot them? Now what was their exact weight just before walk phase? Bet you don’t know. How could you???

Open minds are good, we’re all wrong, I am as well,  but you’re saying nothing that makes any sense as already stated. Trying harder to prove it makes you spin your wheels in attempt at traction. 
 

Well at least your south Florida ppint indicates that you believe the date of maximum buck weight might be property specific.  I do find it interesting that you dont think it is effected by buck to doe ratio however.

Edited September 24, 2020 by wolc123

[nybuckboy]

On 9/23/2020 at 11:32 PM, Chef said:

This is the most Ridiculous insane thread and it has almost 0 merit.


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Chef - It’s almost like asking is Trump fatter before the election or will he be fatter after. 

[Kmartinson]

On 9/22/2020 at 6:45 PM, squirrelwhisperer said:

I don’t know about the biology stuff, but my ratio is WAY off. I see 10 doe for every buck. 

Shoot more does

[wolc123]

15 minutes ago, Kmartinson said:

Shoot more does

That is why I plan on spending the whole early ML week up in my NW Adirondack hot spot.  There are at least 6 antlerless per every antlered one up there.  Unless you are a disabled veteran, you can't get a doe permit up there, but at least I can legally take a doe, on our side route 3, with my ML.

Edited September 26, 2020 by wolc123

[Kmartinson]

No matter where deer live or what they eat, thier whole life revolves around procreation. Deer eat the highest quality food source they can safely eat.   The only time they leave this eating pattern is during rut. When the lose upwards of 20 to 30 percent of thier body weight. It is safe to say, numerous scientists have shown, the peak health and highest weight of whitetail deer is right up until rut.

[Kmartinson]

It could possible that deer lose more weight in certain situation with more does, but it does not change when the deer is heaviest.

[Kmartinson]

On 9/24/2020 at 12:17 PM, wolc123 said:

Well at least your south Florida ppint indicates that you believe the date of maximum buck weight might be property specific.  I do find it interesting that you dont think it is effected by buck to doe ratio however.

not property specific.... rut date specific 

[wolc123]

10 minutes ago, Kmartinson said:

It could possible that deer lose more weight in certain situation with more does, but it does not change when the deer is heaviest.

Wouldn't the bucks lose more weight in areas with less does, because they have to fight with other bucks for them ?

If there was an unlimited supply of food (such as a big field of standing corn) thru December, and 6 doe for every buck,  might it be possible for a buck to be heavier on December 22 than on October 25 ? 

 

[Kmartinson]

Science would tell us not likely. 

[grampy]

21 hours ago, wolc123 said:

Wouldn't the bucks lose more weight in areas with less does, because they have to fight with other bucks for them ?

If there was an unlimited supply of food (such as a big field of standing corn) thru December, and 6 doe for every buck,  might it be possible for a buck to be heavier on December 22 than on October 25 ? 

 

Unequivocally....... NO ! 

Final Answer.

[dbHunterNY]

I would imagine its right before seeking phase - sometime late October but property specific.

This is a very educated logical answer. Still for some it might even be a touch before that. They're already starting to determine pecking order, making rounds, and rubbing trees. Not by much I'd imagine.

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[wolc123]

1 hour ago, dbHunterNY said:

This is a very educated logical answer. Still for some it might even be a touch before that. They're already starting to determine pecking order, making rounds, and rubbing trees. Not by much I'd imagine.

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It depends on the buck to doe ratio, and available food.  A buck that does not have to compete for does and has plenty  of food might add weight continuously.  In rare instances (like NW Adirondack edge next to a corn field), that can happen in the wild. I know because I saw it myself. I will post the photo of the fat hind quarter, mature, Adirondack buck that I killed on Thanksgiving weekend in 2014, to help convince the naysayers, after I get home from my current Adirondack bear hunting trip.  

In the vast majority of NY lands, the bucks struggle to find food thru the rut, and have lots of competition for hot does.  That causes then to loose weight thru the rut.  By November 1st, thier hind quarters have withered to the point where they struggle to outrun coyotes.  That is not the cases where there are plenty of does and plenty of food. 

If you are still not convinced, think about a domesticated whitetail buck in a stall,  in a barn.  Would he not gain weight continously ?

    

  

 

 

 

[chrisw]

It depends on the buck to doe ratio, and available food.  A buck that does not have to compete for does and has plenty  of food might add weight continuously.  In rare instances (like NW Adirondack edge next to a corn field), that can happen in the wild. I know because I saw it myself. I will post the photo of the fat hind quarter, mature, Adirondack buck that I killed on Thanksgiving weekend in 2014, to help convince the naysayers, after I get home from my current Adirondack bear hunting trip.  
In the vast majority of NY lands, the bucks struggle to find food thru the rut, and have lots of competition for hot does.  That causes then to loose weight thru the rut.  By November 1st, thier hind quarters have withered to the point where they struggle to outrun coyotes.  That is not the cases where there are plenty of does and plenty of food. 
If you are still not convinced, think about a domesticated whitetail buck in a stall,  in a barn.  Would he not gain weight continously ?
    
  
 
 
 

First off. Just because there are plenty of does doesn't mean the bucks just lay around in their recliners waiting for does to drop by and get serviced all while eating like pigs. Deer have a natural change when it comes time to breed, it's a light switch for them. They instinctively move more and eat less. It's science.
Secondly, just because there are plenty of does doesn't mean bucks have it easy. In fact in areas where the ratio is very skewed, the rut can last 3-4 times longer than it should. Therefore further exhausting the bucks. Especially in a tract of land as large as the adirondacks which lacks agriculture. Just look at the guys who track bucks up there, they will follow tracks for 5+ miles at times in a day. How many farmland type bucks do that? I bet very few.
You can try to twist your own hypothesis all you want but science and the forces of nature do not agree with you. When you were in your prime breeding years, in a bar full of women, were you thinking about the food menu? Were you sitting around eating? No, you weren't. You had one thing on your mind.


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