Update on fatal shooting Of Sheridan NY Fire Chief

[Doc]

I guess if someone isn't wearing the Blaze Orange or have it hanging next to him / her , they are fair game !

Did anyone say that? That makes no sense at all. I don't have a clue where you are coming up with that statement.

[bubba]

umm one mans bs is another mans reality I guess. Just because I do not agree with the great and powerful doc makes my opinion BS? Pretty judgmental and close minded I would say. I am sure this will be BS too. Burst the bubble and see reality for a change.

Edited February 28, 2012 by bubba

[Doc]

Anyone know how many people have been shot and or killed wearing atleast a blaze orange vest in the last ten yrs? Just wondering. I personally wont go in the woods without it, just like I wont drive a car without a seat belt. Its only common sense, Im not to worried about myself shooting someone else not wearing blaze orange. But I sure dont trust anyone else not to shoot me if im not wearing it. Whenever I take my jacket off to clean a deer out I always hang it on an overhanging branch next to me and then put it back on to clean out the deer. Stiil it gives me the willies sometimes and I look around alot to make sure no one is drawing down on me.

The following link is a pretty good report from a few years back that gives exactly the info you are asking about. Especially note the chart at the end of the article for a pretty good run-down on the stats. http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00044112.htm

[First-light]

I guess if someone isn't wearing the Blaze Orange or have it hanging next to him / her , they are fair game !

Wow, that is alarming. That thinking is so flawed.

1. Identify your target

2. If it's a deer decide if you will take it or not

3. If it's a person w/o wearing any blaze orange, say to self- what is this guy an idiot!

[fasteddie]

So Burt , what you are saying is ..... in order to be safe during hunting season people must be wearing Blaze Orange or they are idiots ? I guess in your thinking , if the person isn't wearing Blaze orange and gets shot it's his fault because he was an idiot . Hmmmmmm ! Who's thinking is flawed ?

Oh look. Something moving down there . I don't see any orange ...... bam , bam , bam !

[First-light]

So Burt , what you are saying is ..... in order to be safe during hunting season people must be wearing Blaze Orange or they are idiots ? I guess in your thinking , if the person isn't wearing Blaze orange and gets shot it's his fault because he was an idiot . Hmmmmmm ! Who's thinking is flawed ?

Oh look. Something moving down there . I don't see any orange ...... bam , bam , bam !

1-Hunters are not going to blaze away at objects in the woods (not wearing blaze orange) just because blaze orange is mandatory.

2-You are safer in the woods during hunting season wearing blaze orange.

3-In my opinion, take it or leave it, your an idiot if you don't wear blaze orange in the woods during hunting season.

4.I know most of you guys here wear blaze orange during hunting season.

[Dave]

I think BO make you safer than if you don't wear it. I hunt private property and wear camo most of the time there are exceptions where it would safer to wear BO than not. when I do a singular drive to push deer to sitter I always wear BO or that Reflertive bright green. Also still hunting, going into my stand on my quad and coming out on my quad I also wear BO or Green. But this is just common sense and I don't think it should be mandatory just like you can't make common sense mandatory.

[Doc]

Oh look. Something moving down there . I don't see any orange ...... bam , bam , bam !

If there are some jerks that will follow that line of thinking, they probably already think that way even without mandatory B/O. That is even another good argument in favor of wearing blaze orange.

What amazes me is all the people who claim that hunters will react in this ridiculous way, and yet feel comfortable wandering around without B/O. Blaze orange may not be a perfect defense, but it still is darned effective. We will never know how many of us have never been shot at because we were decked out in B/O, and I'll tell you that I don't really want to find out about that stat with any kind of first hand experience, if you get what I'm saying.

[fasteddie]

Look , I wear blaze orange when I hunt whether I am in a blind , treestand or walking . I belive in wearing it . If I drop a deer in the middle of a field , I don't think it should be necessary to drag it 100 or so yards to the edge of the field so I can hang my blaze orange jacket on a bush or treelimb and field dress the deer

.

So now with my jacket off I am vulnerable because someone might see movement and shoot because they don't see the blaze orange . If you think this is stretching it , what the hell do you thing the original article was about . A son having his blaze orange off and being shot by his father .

[bubba]

I think BO make you safer than if you don't wear it. I hunt private property and wear camo most of the time there are exceptions where it would safer to wear BO than not. when I do a singular drive to push deer to sitter I always wear BO or that Reflertive bright green. Also still hunting, going into my stand on my quad and coming out on my quad I also wear BO or Green. But this is just common sense and I don't think it should be mandatory just like you can't make common sense mandatory.

that is entirely wrong wearing blaze does not make you safer it make others safer. You are safer for not shooting at others wearing orange . It is not my job to make others safer. You may feel safer, but it is a false sense of security.

[erussell]

TABLE 1. Number and percentage of two-party hunting-associated firearm injuries, by

factor contributing to injury * and "hunter" orange use + by injured hunter -- New York,

1989-1995

===============================================================================================

Injured hunter wearing hunter orange

------------------------------------

Yes No Unknown

---------- ---------- ---------

Contributing factor No. (%) No. (%) No. (%) No. (%)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mistaken for game 125 ( 35) 6 ( 5) 117 (94) 2 (1)

Out of sight 79 ( 22) 29 (37) 46 (58) 4 (5)

In line of fire 60 ( 17) 18 (30) 37 (62) 5 (

Unintentional discharge 39 ( 11) 11 (28) 27 (69) 1 (3)

Struck by ricochet 37 ( 10) 13 (35) 23 (62) 1 (3)

Other/Unknown 16 ( 5) 7 (44) 9 (66) 0 (0)

Total 356 (100) 84 (24) 259 (73) 13 (4)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

* Determined by a local law enforcement officer or a state environmental conservation officer

following an investigation of the injury.

+ Wearing any one of the following solid orange garments: hat, coat, vest, or pants.

===============================================================================================

Edited February 29, 2012 by erussell

[Doc]

Look , I wear blaze orange when I hunt whether I am in a blind , treestand or walking . I belive in wearing it . If I drop a deer in the middle of a field , I don't think it should be necessary to drag it 100 or so yards to the edge of the field so I can hang my blaze orange jacket on a bush or treelimb and field dress the deer

.

So now with my jacket off I am vulnerable because someone might see movement and shoot because they don't see the blaze orange . If you think this is stretching it , what the hell do you thing the original article was about . A son having his blaze orange off and being shot by his father .

If you're standing in the middle of a field, you're probably safe enough ....... probably. For myself, I wouldn't trust even that situation. But I will say that under that situation, while standing in the middle of a field, if someone shoots you it probably doesn't have anything to do with the mentality of blaze orange being mandatory or not. More likely they simply want to shoot you.....lol.

I only mentioned the idea of hanging your jacket on a tree limb or throwing it over a bush as a suggestion and as something that I do. For one thing, I have to put it somewhere. Why not put it where it provides another layer of safety? However, whether you do that or not still should not absolve anyone from being liable for careless accidental shootings as a result of unsafe hunting practices. I think that goes without saying. The person that mis-identifies the target should still be the one that is legally accountable. If there are judges, juries, or other enforcement and judicial people that do not abide by that line of thinking, then that is a problem that has nothing to do with blaze orange.

[Doc]

TABLE 1. Number and percentage of two-party hunting-associated firearm injuries, by

factor contributing to injury * and "hunter" orange use + by injured hunter -- New York,

1989-1995

===============================================================================================

Injured hunter wearing hunter orange

------------------------------------

Yes No Unknown

---------- ---------- ---------

Contributing factor No. (%) No. (%) No. (%) No. (%)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mistaken for game 125 ( 35) 6 ( 5) 117 (94) 2 (1)

Out of sight 79 ( 22) 29 (37) 46 (58) 4 (5)

In line of fire 60 ( 17) 18 (30) 37 (62) 5 (

Unintentional discharge 39 ( 11) 11 (28) 27 (69) 1 (3)

Struck by ricochet 37 ( 10) 13 (35) 23 (62) 1 (3)

Other/Unknown 16 ( 5) 7 (44) 9 (66) 0 (0)

Total 356 (100) 84 (24) 259 (73) 13 (4)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

* Determined by a local law enforcement officer or a state environmental conservation officer

following an investigation of the injury.

+ Wearing any one of the following solid orange garments: hat, coat, vest, or pants.

===============================================================================================

Lol ...... It doesn't format too well when copied and pasted onto this site, does it? That's why I simply gave the link. On another thread, I went to great efforts to completely re-type this chart and format it so people could follow the columns and rows. It didn't matter. Nobody read it anyway. It's a great source of info when discussing blaze orange topics if only you can get anyone to actually read it and then acknowledge the facts when they see them.

[erussell]

Yeah, it kind of makes sense if you look at the good chart 1st on the link.

I find it intresting that there were 6 people shot wearing BO mistaken for game. That seems a little suspicious to me.

Edited February 29, 2012 by erussell

[First-light]

that is entirely wrong wearing blaze does not make you safer it make others safer. You are safer for not shooting at others wearing orange . It is not my job to make others safer. You may feel safer, but it is a false sense of security.

Your wrong Bubba and for those who don't know Bubba he is a Hunter safety instructor. I could just imagine you in front of a class making that statement, my head would spin. I'm done with this cause it will go on and on. Fact is know your target before shooting and wear blaze orange, it make you much safer in the woods.

Hunting Safety

What You Should Know | Transporting | Field Carries | Preventing Falls | Crossing Obstacles | Zones of Fire | Safe / Unsafe Shots | Alcohol and Drugs | Blaze Orange | Final Quiz

Blaze Orange

Wearing highly visible hunter or "blaze" orange clothing makes it much easier for other hunters to see you and increases your safety while hunting. That's why the majority of states and provinces recommend or require hunter orange clothing for most kinds of hunting activities.

See and be seen!

Don't wear tan, brown or white clothing when hunting, even while wearing hunter orange, as these colors are associated with game species.

Never do anything that could make someone mistake you for game, such as putting a deer over your shoulders to carry it out of the woods.

Hunter orange requirements vary depending on your location and the kind of hunting you are doing. Always check and follow the regulations for the area you intend to hunt.

start You are 95% complete in Hunter Safety section quiz Copyright, International Hunter Education Association, Inc. 2002

[Doc]

Yeah, it kind of makes sense if you look at the good chart 1st on the link.

I find it interset that there were 6 people shot wearing BO mistaken for game. That seems a little suspicious to me.

Sounds like intentional homicide to me.

[bubba]

just another case of the human factor and that bo is not the cure all everyone thinks it is. I guess if you feel better wearing it then wear it for every season. That is your choice. But I still find it funny hat all the proponents think it should only be worn during gun season. If it should be mandatory and seer do not see it, why dont you wear it during every season? I have heard the argument that less likely to get shot with a bow so no need. Well less likely still means there is a chance. If you really feel it is such a great thing take it all the way, not just make it a convenience when you think it is needed. If and I doubt they ever will as DEC is not for it, but if they make BO mandatory and it goes for all big game seasons, you guys will be the first to gripe about it Also I would be interested to see how many of those incidents are big game and how many are turkey. The numbers there increase almost every year. Where are the drum bearers calling for that to be made mandatory also.

[bubba]

Your wrong Bubba and for those who don't know Bubba he is a Hunter safety instructor. I could just imagine you in front of a class making that statement, my head would spin. I'm done with this cause it will go on and on. Fact is know your target before shooting and wear blaze orange, it make you much safer in the woods.

Hunting Safety

What You Should Know | Transporting | Field Carries | Preventing Falls | Crossing Obstacles | Zones of Fire | Safe / Unsafe Shots | Alcohol and Drugs | Blaze Orange | Final Quiz

Blaze Orange

Wearing highly visible hunter or "blaze" orange clothing makes it much easier for other hunters to see you and increases your safety while hunting. That's why the majority of states and provinces recommend or require hunter orange clothing for most kinds of hunting activities.

See and be seen!

Don't wear tan, brown or white clothing when hunting, even while wearing hunter orange, as these colors are associated with game species.

Never do anything that could make someone mistake you for game, such as putting a deer over your shoulders to carry it out of the woods.

Hunter orange requirements vary depending on your location and the kind of hunting you are doing. Always check and follow the regulations for the area you intend to hunt.

start You are 95% complete in Hunter Safety section quiz Copyright, International Hunter Education Association, Inc. 2002

Again with the hunter safety crap. I have it on every post I have on here. Explain to me how wearing orange makes you safer? It makes you feel safer yes but does not make you safer Do you suddenly get more brains wearing orange? Do you pay more attention to your target if you are wearing orange. Do you take a second look if you are wearing orange? Umm No moron others see you which makes them safer and less likely to shoot at you. So by common sense which I know was sparingly passed out to you, I make you safer by wearing it. If I see you, and you see me, we are less likely to shoot at each other. I know I never would because I follow the rules of hunting, and do not rely on a color to decide what to shoot at, but you I am not so sure about either way. Take a couple minutes and let it sink it and spend less time making sure you try to discredit my posts and it may make sense to you. I doubt it because your mind is already made up so there is no sense confusing you with the facts. Are you the new one in the posse now who turn it is? OH and btw Burt. I have a class starting 4/14. I will pay for your gas and lodging to set in on the class and then you would have a basis to form an opinion on how I teach a class. Until then keep your biased unknowing responses about my classes to yourself just because I have adifferent opinion than you do ok. I can also give you the address where you can become an instructor and make it all better. Gotta love armchair quarterbacks. Oh you are out as usual. Spew your vomit and leave as not man enough to hear the response. I am starting a new thing for myself on here called the idiots list. Perhaps you would like to be the second member, just let me know ok. Be sure to read the paragraph you posted as it says exactly what I just said. It says wearing bo increases your safety. It does not say it makes you a safer hunter. shaking my head.

Edited February 29, 2012 by bubba

[hunterman7956]

Just my 2 cents on this subject when i started hunting red was the color everyone used then yellow became popular now it is blaze orange. The way I see it it is just a progression to try to be Safer while outdoors. While some point out who is safer I say we all are, not just the shooter but the target too. If you as the shooter dont shoot at or in my direction belive me I'm all for it ! This debate will go on and on but we as hunters and outdoorsman should embrace all the tools at our disposal to become safer in the woods. If by chance you choose not to wear b/o this is your choice and if I choose to wear it or be a advicate of it that is my choice...doesn't make me right but makes me feel safer.

[Lawdwaz]

Deleted because I was responding to a post on page 3 thinking it was the last entered. My bad, looks like you guys are handing Bubba his ass on this.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Lawdwaz

[fasteddie]

Deleted because I was responding to a post on page 3 thinking it was the last entered. My bad, looks like you guys are handing Bubba his ass on this.

Is that supposed to be the point of this whole thread ?

Know what you are shooting at ! The father shot his son in the chest at about 100 yards according to the article . If he wasn't sure of his target , he shouldn't have shot !

Since there are several hunting seasons , other than deer season , should hikers , bike riders , horse riders , joggers , farmers , etc be made to wear Blaze orange all year "to be safe" ?

Know what you are shooting at before you pull the trigger ! it's as simple as that .

[wooffer]

Agreed, the reality is that these people need to stop shooting at "movement" and should be charged with manslaughter when they kill someone due their neglect. I remember one gun season I could hear movement but couldn't make out what it was. I took a look through my binoculars and the sound stopped, but as I scanned the area I could see an antler through the branches. I stayed on the antler with my binoculars and they started moving and then rattling. Finally I got a better view of the knucklehead in cammo carrying antlers on his back. No blaze orange anywhere but antlers dangling from his back. Point of the story, always know your target. I never shoot at fur, and always know my target is a live animal when I pull the trigger.

[hunterman7956]

What if you were in camo 40 yds past the deer in the field and just inside the woods and the shooter shot at the deer in the field ? Directly towards you but could not see you because of your camo .I think b/o would make you stand out ...NO ? YES ? just wonderin .....

[Doc]

Is that supposed to be the point of this whole thread ?

Know what you are shooting at ! The father shot his son in the chest at about 100 yards according to the article . If he wasn't sure of his target , he shouldn't have shot !

Since there are several hunting seasons , other than deer season , should hikers , bike riders , horse riders , joggers , farmers , etc be made to wear Blaze orange all year "to be safe" ?

Know what you are shooting at before you pull the trigger ! it's as simple as that .

You know, if it was as simple as simply telling everybody that, we would not have people getting shot by other hunters. We wouldn't even be talking about blaze orange at all. But guess what..... they have all been told about being sure of their target in their hunter safety training, and we still have people getting shot. We can spout the rules of safety all we want and as often as we want, but there will still be people who ignore those rules, or who simply get too damned excited, or whatever it is that makes them throw all caution to the wind and blaze away at movement. So it is obvious that we need something besides these nice little safety phrases. Blaze orange is a poor substitute for safety-minded hunting, but there is no arguing the effectiveness of it. There just isn't. It would be interesting if only there was some way to measure just how many lives have been saved because of that little flash of orange.

As far as non-hunters, I think they are more afraid of gun hunters than we are. They seem to vacate the woods while the season is in progress.

[Nomad]

Myself I wear it . I don't enter the turkey woods with out some either. I wear more in deer/gun season because the slugs go farther then shot used in most other seasons,there are a ton more guys hunting then, they move around more and i feel there are far more ya- whos out then and I'd like every edge I can get.

Me I like to be seen .I wear an orange hat walking my dog, at night add a headlamp and 750 luman handlight . On the job a bright reflective vest is mandated when working a scene on a road unless we have it shut right down to traffic.Is a vest going to stop an out of control car? No, but if it helps someone pick me out just a few seconds earlier thats a plus maybe they steer away or brakein time.

I could not count the ways I,ve seen folks killed,shot,stabbed,burned up, OD'd, falls,,crushed,pinned caught , hit by countless cars,busses,trains,boats. If your plan is to count on the other guy to be safe Ha Ha HA jokes on you .

Part of my plan is to help out the other guy ,"oh look I see someone down range,or in the road, yes some are beyond help , I'll still try.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Larry302