America's Most Ineffective Deer Management Program

[Five Seasons]

1 hour ago, phade said:

What do you think Chernin does with the money he makes - cause that sure as hell ain't just opinion? Do you think he invests in Pro-2A lobbyists? Pro 2-A candidates? No. The other way around. He is taking money from hunters and 2-A supporters and using it to advance his cause. So I can't agree with "opinion" being separate from the money.

And you know what - Rinella knew that; he won't ever answer whether he believes AR-15s should be "legal" because he knows his answer would make him this generation's Jim Zumbo.

Meateater would not be a digital marketing company that owns things like First Lite without Chernin. They'd be just another brand in a sea of companies looking for growth. So, let's be real, Rinella sold out to become a talking face for a guy who takes his money and spends it toward anti-2A causes. You can continue to defend him. I won't. 

 

 

1 hour ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

I do See what you are saying, but having an opinion and actively pushing for a ban are two different things. If someone just doesn’t like semi auto rifles and chooses not to purchase one, and even voices their opinion without restricting the rights of others, I have no issue with that. In fact, I support That persons right to have and voice their opinion which is different than my own. Supporting, sponsoring or organizing support of a ban that chips away further at the rights of all citizens is different in my eyes. Personally I will Do whatever I can To avoid giving any type of support to someone like that, and will speak out and support groups that try to stop those antis from being successful in installing their agenda. 

 

Ok so lets look at this differently. There are plenty of democrats who are still pro 2A. Sure, the list is smaller than the republicans, but there are a few on this board. This guy may throw money at dems and we can all agree that in no way does that help our cause, but perhaps his reasons are not just 2A? Maybe that's a small part of it?

I'm not trying to defend him, so I hope that it doesn't come across that way. But I do think that Steve and his brand have done a lot for hunting and conservation for the new generation of hunters and fisherman. 

[Five Seasons]

let me throw out something else as well. And this won't be popular.

Before yall lose your shit on me, remember I own semi-auto rifles and handguns and firearms that have no purpose for hunting. Remember I belong or have belonged to and donated money to pro-2a groups. 

So now that is out of the way

You can support firearm ownership for hunting and have little to no need to own a semi-auto rifle. Do some semi-auto rifles present an advantage in some scenarios vs a bolt action/lever/pump? Sure, but by and large they do not.

I have a father and uncles that can run circles around the number and quality of deer most of us (myself included) harvest. They own multiple rifles and shotguns each. None of the 3 own a single semi-auto rifle or pistol between them. Rinella, the meateater brand and many other hunters could and probably do support ARs and other firearms out of principal (my dad and uncles do as well), but outlawing them wouldn't change a thing in their approach to hunting.

Please don't take that as my personal belief, but only as food for thought. And save your breath on the slippery slope counter-argument please, this is purely an observation on the current state of the country and the 2A.

[phade]

30 minutes ago, Belo said:

let me throw out something else as well. And this won't be popular.

Before yall lose your shit on me, remember I own semi-auto rifles and handguns and firearms that have no purpose for hunting. Remember I belong or have belonged to and donated money to pro-2a groups. 

So now that is out of the way

You can support firearm ownership for hunting and have little to no need to own a semi-auto rifle. Do some semi-auto rifles present an advantage in some scenarios vs a bolt action/lever/pump? Sure, but by and large they do not.

I have a father and uncles that can run circles around the number and quality of deer most of us (myself included) harvest. They own multiple rifles and shotguns each. None of the 3 own a single semi-auto rifle or pistol between them. Rinella, the meateater brand and many other hunters could and probably do support ARs and other firearms out of principal (my dad and uncles do as well), but outlawing them wouldn't change a thing in their approach to hunting.

Please don't take that as my personal belief, but only as food for thought. And save your breath on the slippery slope counter-argument please, this is purely an observation on the current state of the country and the 2A.

You ever shoot a duck or a goose? 

[Grouse]

Well, this thread certainly ran off the rails and became a train wreck.  The pro-hunting messenger has been killed by hunters.  

[left field]

So I can post WLP's botched elephant hunt?

[Dinsdale]

35 minutes ago, left field said:

So I can post WLP's botched elephant hunt?

Ya, he looks really uncomfortable handling a rifle. It's a Blaser loaned from the guy in the hat (tony makris)

Now in the end he most likely spined that bull. But fumbled for a bit on follow up and should not have taken that first shot on the run.

 

Wife makes a great brain shot.

 

Now to play devils advocate, what do you think a whitetail is doing when everyone preaches wait overnight, and follow up in the morning?

You think that's pretty?

Now he could have been more effective. But they didnt edit out hours and hours. He seems over matched for the seriousness of the situation. But he did get the job done.

And I think I can qualify to comment, I'd guess I'm the only one here who has killed a couple. I've put 4 in them, first has always been a killing shot, but insurance shots on 12,000 lbs of animal are standard. I tell ph's stay put, I'm not going to stop shooting if I can see the body. No such thing as too much lead in dangerous game hunting.

And I'm not an nra fan and less so of LaPierre. 

Hunt enough, and situations arise that can get less than desired results.  I've hunted a fair bit and have two animals come to mind that I'd rather not repeat and wouldnt have looked great on film. One wounded and lost that I remember every time I pull the trigger. And another only time I have seen real bullet failure and it was ugly.

[Dinsdale]

Oh, and there was no way some of that hunting crew should have been on the opposite side where that bull went down in the line of fire for follow up.

Absolute ridiculous and not one of them would even get a ride back to camp where I have been. I have no idea how that could have happened with a veteran crew. And that's square on the ph for not controlling that mess. That safari company is one of the most ,if not the most , expensive in Africa even dating back the 8 years ago this was filmed. And to have that is shameful at best.

[Five Seasons]

16 hours ago, phade said:

You ever shoot a duck or a goose? 

yes...

point?

[Five Seasons]

14 hours ago, left field said:

So I can post WLP's botched elephant hunt?

I have no idea what this is in reference to or how it applies to meateater

[phade]

57 minutes ago, Belo said:

yes...

point?

Enjoy hunting with the bolt action?

Is what it is. Some people are fine with eroding our rights. Some aren't.

[Five Seasons]

7 minutes ago, phade said:

Enjoy hunting with the bolt action?

Is what it is. Some people are fine with eroding our rights. Some aren't.

you rifle hunt duck and goose?

I never once stated anything about eroding our rights, In general though I do feel that what Steve and his brand have done for the sport outweighs the opinion of one of his investors and what he may do with his ROI. Also that not a single piece of evidence exists that shows the meateater group is anti-2A or that their views on guns have changed at all.

[left field]

1 hour ago, Belo said:

I have no idea what this is in reference to or how it applies to meateater

It doesn't but Grouse called the thread a "train wreck", so I figured why not.

[Grouse]

Meanwhile, NYC anti-hunters and DeBlasio are reading this thread and laughing so hard they are pissing themselves.  

[left field]

On 5/12/2021 at 7:05 PM, Dinsdale said:

Ya, he looks really uncomfortable handling a rifle. It's a Blaser loaned from the guy in the hat (tony makris)

Now in the end he most likely spined that bull. But fumbled for a bit on follow up and should not have taken that first shot on the run.

 

Wife makes a great brain shot.

 

Now to play devils advocate, what do you think a whitetail is doing when everyone preaches wait overnight, and follow up in the morning?

You think that's pretty?

Now he could have been more effective. But they didnt edit out hours and hours. He seems over matched for the seriousness of the situation. But he did get the job done.

And I think I can qualify to comment, I'd guess I'm the only one here who has killed a couple. I've put 4 in them, first has always been a killing shot, but insurance shots on 12,000 lbs of animal are standard. I tell ph's stay put, I'm not going to stop shooting if I can see the body. No such thing as too much lead in dangerous game hunting.

And I'm not an nra fan and less so of LaPierre. 

Hunt enough, and situations arise that can get less than desired results.  I've hunted a fair bit and have two animals come to mind that I'd rather not repeat and wouldnt have looked great on film. One wounded and lost that I remember every time I pull the trigger. And another only time I have seen real bullet failure and it was ugly.

I was astounded on how awkward he seemed, as if it was the first time he handled a rifle. 

I'd love to hear those two stories. It may not be hunting at its best (or even you at yours) but it's sound like you still carry them, which says something about you.

[WNYBuckHunter]

On 5/12/2021 at 3:41 PM, Belo said:

let me throw out something else as well. And this won't be popular.

Before yall lose your shit on me, remember I own semi-auto rifles and handguns and firearms that have no purpose for hunting. Remember I belong or have belonged to and donated money to pro-2a groups. 

So now that is out of the way

You can support firearm ownership for hunting and have little to no need to own a semi-auto rifle. Do some semi-auto rifles present an advantage in some scenarios vs a bolt action/lever/pump? Sure, but by and large they do not.

I have a father and uncles that can run circles around the number and quality of deer most of us (myself included) harvest. They own multiple rifles and shotguns each. None of the 3 own a single semi-auto rifle or pistol between them. Rinella, the meateater brand and many other hunters could and probably do support ARs and other firearms out of principal (my dad and uncles do as well), but outlawing them wouldn't change a thing in their approach to hunting.

Please don't take that as my personal belief, but only as food for thought. And save your breath on the slippery slope counter-argument please, this is purely an observation on the current state of the country and the 2A.

No. If you support gun bans as a firearm owner, you are just accelerating your loss of that right. Semi auto bans are just another step towards complete gun bans. I dont care what line of rhetoric anyone gives me, history shows the pattern. 
 

The second amendment is not there to protect your right to hunt. Besides, semi autos have their place in the hunting realm. 

[Five Seasons]

21 hours ago, Grouse said:

Meanwhile, NYC anti-hunters and DeBlasio are reading this thread and laughing so hard they are pissing themselves.  

idk, the mayor of nyc doesn't have a whole lot of influence at the national level. Him and Cuomo have also come under a lot of heat lately. It's not like you could ever really "own" a gun in NYC for a while now anyhow.

[Five Seasons]

5 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

No. If you support gun bans as a firearm owner, you are just accelerating your loss of that right. Semi auto bans are just another step towards complete gun bans. I dont care what line of rhetoric anyone gives me, history shows the pattern. 
 

The second amendment is not there to protect your right to hunt. Besides, semi autos have their place in the hunting realm. 

I know what you're saying, but not sure what your point is here. Nothing in my post indicated anyone supported any gun bans just that most hunters wouldn't be affected by them, again assuming it doesn't progress. 

[WNYBuckHunter]

1 minute ago, Belo said:

I know what you're saying, but not sure what your point is here. Nothing in my post indicated anyone supported any gun bans just that most hunters wouldn't be affected by them, again assuming it doesn't progress. 

All hunters will be affected by them. That’s my point. 

[Five Seasons]

20 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

All hunters will be affected by them. That’s my point. 

so i'll play devils advocate. how would a ban on semi-auto rifles affect hunting?

and i pose this only because it's a major talking point for the anti's and other than slippery slope i've never had a great response, and wouldn't mind having one when it comes up again for the thousands time.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Belo

[Steuben Jerry]

47 minutes ago, Belo said:

It's not like you could ever really "own" a gun in NYC for a while now anyhow.

Some of the erosion of rights though, correct?

[phade]

28 minutes ago, Belo said:

so i'll play devils advocate. how would a ban on semi-auto rifles affect hunting?

and i pose this only because it's a major talking point for the anti's and other than slippery slope i've never had a great response, and wouldn't mind having one when it comes up again for the thousands time.

Follow the money - it seems to be a trend here that you cannot wrap your hands around. Ammo and firearms sales create excise taxes that drive the bulk of the North American Hunting/Conservation model. Hunting and 2A is a bi-directional relationship - hunters reinforce 2A and 2A in turn supports the conservation of land, resources, game, and hunting itself. Mutual support.

The gusto for Rinella you have appears to be on what he says vs what he does. And what he did is sold out to an Anti-2A owner who uses his money to pursue bans on firearms and trophy hunting.

If Rinella makes a dollar via MeatEater, he gets a small minority cut of that dollar (due to the buyout/arrangement which is not public, but common info says he no longer has controlling interest in MeatEater). The majority of that dollar's net profit goes into Chernin's pocket. Chernin in turn takes that same coin, and puts it toward the limitation of YOUR gun rights as defined by the 2A. Rinella knew this, and made a conscientious choice to do so. He could have went to several other large investment groups and picked nearly any one of them, plenty of pro-2A groups, too. My personal belief is that he did this because he was comfortable as it aligned with his moral compass despite not speaking about it. He didn't do it because Chernin was the only game in town, let's be real. He likely had a choice of investors.

But go ahead and keep defending on principle because Rinella doesn't say something. Ignore the fact he was willing to get into bed with the enemy and contribute toward the erosion of our 2A. His success is now intrinsically linked to anti-2A....every dollar he makes has a portion that now goes to push against 2-A.  C'mon man. 

Edited May 14, 2021 by phade

[phade]

Curious question -

Let's replace Chernin with Nancy Pelosi or Chuck Schumer. Let's say Pelosi or Chuck own the enterprise that Rinella sold out to but neither are necessarily in Congress, still, in this hypothetical.

Would you hold a different view? They're both anti-2A, just maybe more known because of being a politician. 

Would you be comfortable with that arrangement? It's no different, their views are largely the same as Chernin, but we're much more comfortable with them knowledge wise.

Edited May 14, 2021 by phade

[WNYBuckHunter]

35 minutes ago, Belo said:

so i'll play devils advocate. how would a ban on semi-auto rifles affect hunting?

and i pose this only because it's a major talking point for the anti's and other than slippery slope i've never had a great response, and wouldn't mind having one when it comes up again for the thousands time.

Go back and read what I already wrote. 

[Five Seasons]

23 minutes ago, phade said:

Follow the money - it seems to be a trend here that you cannot wrap your hands around. Ammo and firearms sales create excise taxes that drive the bulk of the North American Hunting/Conservation model. Hunting and 2A is a bi-directional relationship - hunters reinforce 2A and 2A in turn supports the conservation of land, resources, game, and hunting itself. Mutual support.

The gusto for Rinella you have appears to be on what he says vs what he does. And what he did is sold out to an Anti-2A owner who uses his money to pursue bans on firearms and trophy hunting.

If Rinella makes a dollar via MeatEater, he gets a small minority cut of that dollar (due to the buyout/arrangement which is not public, but common info says he no longer has controlling interest in MeatEater). The majority of that dollar's net profit goes into Chernin's pocket. Chernin in turn takes that same coin, and puts it toward the limitation of YOUR gun rights as defined by the 2A. Rinella knew this, and made a conscientious choice to do so. He could have went to several other large investment groups and picked nearly any one of them, plenty of pro-2A groups, too. My personal belief is that he did this because he was comfortable as it aligned with his moral compass despite not speaking about it. He didn't do it because Chernin was the only game in town, let's be real. He likely had a choice of investors.

But go ahead and keep defending on principle because Rinella doesn't say something. Ignore the fact he was willing to get into bed with the enemy and contribute toward the erosion of our 2A. His success is now intrinsically linked to anti-2A....every dollar he makes has a portion that now goes to push against 2-A.  C'mon man. 

Ok so a couple points here.

The VAST majority of pittman robertson comes from sport shooters, not hunters. Yes many shooters are also hunters, but there is heaps of data out there on this because it's a cause of frustration for sport shooters that their taxes aren't being used to fund things like public gun ranges, just like hunters get upset when those funds are used to build a city basketball court.

I bet anecdotally we all know a whole lot of hunters that still have the same box of 12 gauge slugs and same box of .30-06 for the last 3 to 5 years now. I'm going on 2 years of not pulling the trigger on a turkey or a deer during gun but I sure have shit chewed up .223, .40 and .45 at the range.

Lets talk about what Steve has done:

grown hunter numbers

brought in a newer generation interested in sustainable farm to table

brought attention to organizations like BHA, TRCP, WTF, NWTF etc etc

bought, managed and raffled off boats and land 

bought and saved land from becoming private and opened it to the public

Partnered with an ammo company

https://www.federalpremium.com/meateater.html

Partnered with a gun company

https://weatherby.com/store/meateaterrifle/

I just don't understand this "sell out" comment. I understand that it upsets you that his primary backer is a democrat and outspoken against some parts of the 2A, but I can't find anywhere where this owener leads an anti-gun group.

You sound like a teenage boy that's upset his favorite band signed a record deal after getting popular to help further their reach and brand.

Finally, Steve's statement is a very quick google. And what I learned listening to this around the 2min mark is that this guy Cherin has stake in fox news for f*cks sakes. I've said my peace, you guys are all big boys and you can spend your dollars however you want, but to paint Steve as a bad guy in a world where hunters and fisherman are constantly under attack is dangerous as we don't have many "safe" guys like steve out there advocating for us and risk guys like Nugent become the face of our sport.

https://www.themeateater.com/conservation/general/steven-rinella-addresses-questions-about-meateater-inc

 

stay safe, happy friday

Edited May 14, 2021 by Belo

[Five Seasons]

1 hour ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

The second amendment is not there to protect your right to hunt. Besides, semi autos have their place in the hunting realm. 

where? I've asked this 3 times now and nobody has given me an answer and you didn't give any explanation other than slipper slope.