Why??

[Five Seasons]

Im coming around on AR the more I watch Pennsylvania hunts on youtube.


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Same but I’d like a youth and new hunter exception.


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[PraiseDiana]

I'm very curious how the adjustment to start/stop times will affect the harvest this year. If it is much higher I wonder if it will prompt an adjustment to the duration of the season(s).

[Trial153]

I'm very curious how the adjustment to start/stop times will affect the harvest this year. If it is much higher I wonder if it will prompt an adjustment to the duration of the season(s).

Probably no statically significant difference considering the average NY hunters indifference to laws.

[tj1187]

So Trial153 wants 123 days of bowhunting (no crossbows), 10-12 days of gun hunting, and 5 days of muzzle loading. Sounds like  bowhunting greed to me. 

[Trial153]

So Trial153 wants 123 days of bowhunting (no crossbows), 10-12 days of gun hunting, and 5 days of muzzle loading. Sounds like  bowhunting greed to me. 

Sounds like i know what it takes to have a healthily deer herd and good hunting for everyone.
Considering my friends and neighbors hunt on my lands more then I do, I am far from greedy. If was really selfish, considering I deer hunt out of NY more then in NY then I wouldn’t say …I don’t give shit and NY can continue its drain circle

[land 1]

but why not xbow again same methods of hunting as bow,,, unless your purest bow hunter recurve /long bow then i would get it but modern day compound is just as effective,,lets face when bow season 1st started no one could predict the tech advances in bows,,,,

[Trial153]

but why not xbow again same methods of hunting as bow,,, unless your purest bow hunter recurve /long bow then i would get it but modern day compound is just as effective,,lets face when bow season 1st started no one could predict the tech advances in bows,,,,

Again, based on efficacy they have do not belong in an archery season.

[land 1]

1 minute ago, Trial153 said:

Again, based on efficacy they have do not belong in an archery season.

what is your arguement they are more efficant then modern day crossbow? i use both theres draw backs to both...range is same 45yards max for me at least on both in perfect situtation......I truely believe the only people that can say that they dont belong are traditional archers

[land 1]

and if your  saying we should not use them because they are to effective then lets all go back to recurve long bow because the same thing could be said for compound 20 plus yrs ago....but everyone is entitled to there own opinion I would just like to see any FACTS how its negatively effected the deer numbers or mgt or anyone persons bow season to have cross bow and please dont go with more people hunting thats just saying you dont want people in the woods I mean Ohio has cross bow they got great mgt right? ,,,,,,,,,

[The_Real_TCIII]

Same but I’d like a youth and new hunter exception.


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Thats always been my reservation. Or even a hunter with limited time, I hate telling them what they cant shoot if it makes them happy. Its a conundrum


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[The_Real_TCIII]

I'm very curious how the adjustment to start/stop times will affect the harvest this year. If it is much higher I wonder if it will prompt an adjustment to the duration of the season(s).

Id be very surprised if it made much difference. A beautiful opening weekend with light snow cover will though


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[The_Real_TCIII]

So Trial153 wants 123 days of bowhunting (no crossbows), 10-12 days of gun hunting, and 5 days of muzzle loading. Sounds like  bowhunting greed to me. 

Hes got my vote


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[land 1]

i just looked at 2020 harvest report xbow hunters had just over 11,000 reported deer taken compund over 68,0000.... just saying xbow is a drop in the bucket in the big picture... just like when youth season came out some bowhunters where saying that this would just ruin the rest of the season for bow.....and im not even arguing for full xbow season leave it as is but to say it has no place at all prior to gun well i just dont see the harm as far as hurting mgt we are talking just over a 11,000 deer taken in 2020, thats 192 deer per county in new york hell cars kill way more then that as far as AR some areas i would be good with them but not in the ADK thats hard enough hunting and winters are what control deer up there hunting has little to no effect

Edited December 5, 2021 by land 1
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[chrisw]

Hes got my vote


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Count me in also.

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[Shoots100]

2 hours ago, Trial153 said:

Sounds like i know what it takes to have a healthily deer herd and good hunting for everyone.
Considering my friends and neighbors hunt on my lands more then I do, I am far from greedy. If was really selfish, considering I deer hunt out of NY more then in NY then I wouldn’t say …I don’t give shit and NY can continue its drain circle

I've never seen a cook book with an antler recipe.

I hunt for the meat, not some huge rack that'll collect dust on a wall, or end up in some box in the garage, like my brother does with the many trophy bucks he's killed over the years in his travels.

He gets the meat  processed and gives it to needy families we know, so I don't give him shit about killing for a trophy rack.

My family and I have been hunting in NY state for a long time.

I'm 5th generation and have been hunting deer in NY for 40 years myself.

I remember the stories told to me from my uncles and grandfathers about times when seeing any buck was a cause to celebrate, as deer were overhunted and very scarce.

NY has come a long way from those days.

Last year was the only year that I didn't harvest a deer and it wasn't because I didn't have the opportunity.

I had enough stag meat left over from a cull hunt on a friends preserve that I help protect from predators.

As you know, If you want to hunt trophy deer, there's plenty of states with the agricultural lands that'll support a bucks nutritional needs to grow that big.

NY state used to have the agricultural farms to support a big deer herd, but those farms have been sold by the younger generations and turned into subdivisions or have gone back to the woods they once were, which won't support as many deer as the land used to.

To me , NY's human population growth and lack of farm land upstate for deer to live on is the cause for the "supposed" deer population issue, not the length of the hunting seasons or implements being used.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2021 by Shoots100

[Five Seasons]

I'm very curious how the adjustment to start/stop times will affect the harvest this year. If it is much higher I wonder if it will prompt an adjustment to the duration of the season(s).

I think more than half the hunters have always hunted 30 minutes before and after. Of course I have no data to prove this but we all know how ridiculous that law was and how safe and clear many “illegal” times were.

Plus we’ve all heard the shots during gun haha


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[Five Seasons]

So Trial153 wants 123 days of bowhunting (no crossbows), 10-12 days of gun hunting, and 5 days of muzzle loading. Sounds like  bowhunting greed to me. 

Many coveted whitetail states have a version of this though…


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[Five Seasons]

I've never seen a cook book with an antler recipe.
I hunt for the meat, not some huge rack that'll collect dust on a wall, or end up in some box in the garage, like my brother does with the many trophy bucks he's killed over the years in his travels.
He gets the meat  processed and gives it to needy families we know, so I don't give him shit about killing for a trophy rack.
My family and I have been hunting in NY state for a long time.
I'm 5th generation and have been hunting deer in NY for 40 years myself.
I remember the stories told to me from my uncles and grandfathers about times when seeing any buck was a cause to celebrate, as deer were overhunted and very scarce.
NY has come a long way from those days.
Last year was the only year that I didn't harvest a deer and it wasn't because I didn't have the opportunity.
I had enough stag meat left over from a cull hunt on a friends preserve that I help protect from predators.
As you know, If you want to hunt trophy deer, there's plenty of states with the agricultural lands that'll support a bucks nutritional needs to grow that big.
NY state used to have the agricultural farms to support a big deer herd, but those farms have been sold by the younger generations and turned into subdivisions or have gone back to the woods they once were, which won't support as many deer as the land used to.
To me , NY's human population growth and lack of farm land upstate for deer to live on is the cause for the "supposed" deer population issue, not the length of the hunting seasons or implements being used.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

I had only one season recently where my option between no meat and a small buck was all I had. It was a total shit year and in 25+ years I consider that a rarity, but still I get it as a meat hunter with a trophy goal myself.

I guess my point is that you can limit small buck or total buck take and generally still fill your fridge in NY.


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[The_Real_TCIII]

I think more than half the hunters have always hunted 30 minutes before and after. Of course I have no data to prove this but we all know how ridiculous that law was and how safe and clear many “illegal” times were.

Plus we’ve all heard the shots during gun haha


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Seems like 15 minutes is the right number. I cant see the ground at 30 lol


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[Five Seasons]

Seems like 15 minutes is the right number. I cant see the ground at 30 lol


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You’re right and it depends. Field or thick canopy, cloudy sky, full moon, snow on the ground.

We should all aim for ethical clean shots even it’s legal light and especially if there’s ARs or you don’t have a tag for both sexes.


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[Trial153]

I often wonder where the misconception comes that having a healthy/balanced herd equates to less opportunity to fill your freezer. My only conclusion is that a lot of it comes from people having almost no experience any place else and they have nothing to compare it to. Hence they make faulty assumptions.

Where in fact the exact opposite is true. With better management you could have more opportunity, better quality and higher hunter satisfaction.

[Shoots100]

1 hour ago, Belo said:

I had only one season recently where my option between no meat and a small buck was all I had. It was a total shit year and in 25+ years I consider that a rarity, but still I get it as a meat hunter with a trophy goal myself.

I guess my point is that you can limit small buck or total buck take and generally still fill your fridge in NY.


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I was skeptical about antler restrictions, but after a few years time, I've seen the benefits of the program.

As the antlers get bigger, so do the bucks, which means more meat in the freezer.

The deer programs that have had success in other states, generally won't work in NY state, as this state has a vey diverse environment, with a lot of dense human population areas and a lot of land that's off limit's to hunting. 

Programs that are suited to work in the sparsely populated western NY AG tier, won't work in the vast mountains of the Adirondacks,  Catskills, Southern tier or the populated capitol + lower Hudson valley regions.

A broad brush approach won't work.

[Trial153]

I was skeptical about antler restrictions, but after a few years time, I've seen the benefits of the program.
As the antlers get bigger, so do the bucks, which means more meat in the freezer.
The deer programs that have had success in other states, generally won't work in NY state, as this state has a vey diverse environment, with a lot of dense human population areas and a lot of land that's off limit's to hunting. 
Programs that are suited to work in the sparsely populated western NY AG tier, won't work in the vast mountains of the Adirondacks,  Catskills, Southern tier or the populated capitol + lower Hudson valley regions.
A broad brush approach won't work.

How is a shorter more condensed gun season that isn’t in the peak of the rut a program? What are you taking about?


You have 15.1 hunters per square mile, the second highest density in the county and we have a gun season in the southern zone that is over 4 weeks long between the rifle and Muzzle loader Season, with the first two weeks being in the rut.

In norther zone that is six weeks long between muzzleloader and rifle season, all in the rut.

Pure idiocy in deer management.

[chrisw]

There's a reason you don't see people flocking to NY to buy deer tags. NY has the capability of producing the same type deer that the Midwest does but we're stuck behind the times. Anytime you bring this conversation up the opponents always jump to talking about trophy hunting. QDM isn't about trophy deer. It's about overall herd health, sustainability and more diverse age classes of deer. Now, with that the trophies are benefiting also, yes. The biggest common denominator for people who oppose antler restrictions is the fact that the vast majority of those people have never killed a big buck. That's a tough piece of truth for a lot of people to swallow. What they don't understand is that with a shorter gun season you will have more deer, therefore negating the need to have to rifle hunt for 4-5 weeks in order to shoot a deer or two. You will also have a much longer archery season. I know, I know (whiney voice inserted) "well we don't all archery hunt, you're just an elitist bowhunters." Why is that dictating what's healthy for the herd? I do not take offense to someone calling me an elitist bowhunters because at least I know where I stand. Me wanting more archery season is no different than you whining that you want longer gun seasons and more implements added. Life's not fair and noone is stopping you from archery hunting. Pick up a bow and join or don't. Especially now that you can crossbow hunt during the best part of the season. The spots we've hunted (public land) for the last 20 years have seen a drastic decrease in deer, especially since rifles were allowed. It's simple math, you add more effective weapons into the season but don't decrease it's length, deer numbers will suffer. To Trial's point, the people who speak so vehemently against change have never experienced truly great hunting. They've hunted the same piece of land, shooting the same type of deer their entire lives, they know no better.

Feel free to fire away. I'll respond if I get time or see fit.

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[Shoots100]

Here are some recent numbers about deer hunting in NYS.

https://www.dec.ny.gov/press/119982.html

NY doesn't  manage the deer population for making money in license sales, as a lot of the states out west need to do.

There's a lot of factors about deer management that some here aren't considering, listed here.

https://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/104911.html

And This, 2021.

NYS big Buck

And another broad brush assumption about NY hunters being made by other's here also.

I've hunted all around the US and abroad, as have many of my family + friends and members here on this forum too.

Assuming that everyone posting on this topic doesn't know anything about deer management and are behind the times, is as closed and narrow minded as you can get.

Having a family with a history of deer hunting all over this state for nearly a century, I'm told by the old timers that this generation is living in golden times, as far as deer numbers go. 

Using some of the logic being touted here,  a compound bow using mechanical broad heads, string release, sights, arrow rest and carbon arrows would be considered a more efficient weapon compared to a traditional long/ recurve bow, using wooden arrows with flint broad heads.

Should the non traditional Bow hunting season be made shorter and the Spear season made longer for that reason ?

Maybe some should take a step back and look at the whole picture in NY, instead of a slice before assuming idiocy and the lack of experience in hunting other areas of the country as the basis for their position on the matter at hand.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2021 by Shoots100