Doc

One thing is for sure. Ethics decisions have an awful lot to do with location (local hunting methods), parental guidance, and often they vary by generation. When I grew up, almost every kid around ran traplines. I was pretty good at it, but I have yet to eat muskrat, coon, possum, skunk, beaver, mink or fox. Fact is that I don't even know anyone who ever did. I never had any twinges of conscience or ethical wrestling matches because I threw away all that meat or used it for bait. The only problem I have with limiting hunting to only the "food source" justification is the idea that that standard, if widely accepted, could have some far-reaching effects if it ever found it's way into law.

So, what is the traditional way of splitting up the meat when there is that many people involved. Does everybody get together an do the butchering and then split up the meat by the pound? I never participated in more than a 2-man drive (1 stander-1 driver).

You either have the wind right or you don't. You can't buy a good wind direction from Gander Mountain. Is it sloppy hunting to rely on a good solid understanding of where the deer will be coming from and understanding wind currents enough to know when the wind will not go to them, rather than relying on purchased products and hyped procedures to take care of all that pesky stuff for you? We all do what we think works best for us. There's nothing sloppy or not sloppy about it. And there's nothing in either scenario that labels a hunter a slob. That comment was way out of line.

I think we are forgetting the basic goals of the antlerless deer permit system. I think if you ask the DEC, they'll tell you that it is for herd management, not for filling freezers .... lol. So, a permit issued is intended to be a permit filled, regardless of who or how many hunters fill them. I believe that is what the permit sign-overs are all about, and even the deer donation program. Everything is focused on deer harvest and attempted herd management, and that applies whether the hunting area is public or private. As far as the notion that food gathering is the only reason for hunting, I really don't completely agree with that. I have spent some time in my younger years hunting woodchucks, but never was able to get myself to eat one. But the farmers who used to slam their equipment over those holes sure did thank me. I also do some varmint hunting, but am not looking forward to a fox rump roast. And I used to shoot rats at the dump ...... no meal for me there. I don't know how many people enjoy a nice stuffed Thanksgiving crow. Hunting has many reasons for justification, and food gathering is only one of them.

Well oh mystic mind-reader, it's time for you to go in and give your powers a tune-up. I happened to have been talking about what is referred to as a canned hunt. Is that what you are really running. Maybe that's why you seem to always be on the defensive even regarding replies that have nothing to do with you. For crying out loud, lighten up a bit. Like I said not everything is about you and little deer zoo.

If it were mandatory, I probably wouldn't lose any sleep over it. No, I am not going to start a campaign to pass laws regarding it, but I am of the opinion that it is absolutely stupid to be out in the woods without plenty of orange on. I am also of the opinion that there are way too many people without the intelligence to come to that opinion on their own (I've seem them). But I have to say that we are buried in laws already to the point where we are all offenders, often without even knowing it. Enough is enough! Now as to making one safety feature into law at the expense of backing off on another, I can't say that I am in favor of that. Frankly I think the shooting hours are sensible, and adequate. I know there are those that disagree, but I have seen plenty of weather conditions, and forest over-story densities that make even the present rules a bit marginal. My opinion ...... leave it all alone and simply abide by the rules as they exist with a little common sense thrown in.

Damn Gomer, everything is not about you and your little deer zoo. I simply gave one example of something that people call hunting that I really don't want to be associated with, and you get all butt-hurt. As far as all the other stuff that you listed, how about letting me make up my own mind as to how I feel about them rather than having you tell me my opinion.

Italian necktie

Actually I am one of those that complains about the reduced resources of the DEC and their law enforcement branch in particular. That is why I wonder why this guy is wasting time checking out the same one place and the same hunters multiple times. It makes absolutely no sense, and it sure appears that he is not performing his duties in an efficient way ........ unless there is more to the story than what we are hearing.

Why do I care about what kinds of practices travel under the name of hunting? It doesn't effect me does it? Well, as a matter of fact, it does. Unfortunately, society paints us all with the same brush. During my entire life, hunting has been an activity that I have been closely identified with. When I say I am a hunter, or people mention that I was a hunter after I am gone, I don't want images to pop into people's heads of some guy leaning against a fence settling the crosshairs on some critter eating out of a feeding trough. There are also a whole lot of other hunting practices that I don't want hunting to be associated with. So yes, I am opinionated, and vocal about those things that I do not want anyone to even think that I participate in. And yes, I do add those feelings to what I consider "personal ethics".

It's hard to believe that when I was a kid, we never had locks on our house doors. There was no need. Things sure have changed.

It's a freakin' mistake of nature that can't make up its mind whether it is a deer or a goat. Shoot the damn thing and eat it just like you would any other deer and take satisfaction in the fact that you have removed a deer full of recessive genes from the pool, and never mind all the romantic emotional crap. Yes it is rare, and that's a good thing.

I have to laugh at all this concern about confined animals laying in their own crap. Do you suppose any of them sit around having a nervous breakdown about the fact that they are not allowed to bathe regularly.....lol. And does anyone think they really care that they aren't out there "where the deer and the antelope roam" .... lol. For crying out loud these are animals that will lay in their own crap even if they are out in the pasture, and the most activity that the "free" animals get is sauntering along on their way back to the barn to getting milked, and begrudging that expenditure of effort at that. Ever see a pig that laid around all day pondering his great escape to freedom and cleanliness? Come on......a life of misery??? This is the language of PETA casting human intellect, reasoning and emotions on animals.

It sounds like you may have interrupted some illegal activity.

The Owner does is not released from liability for any damages caused by their animals just because they found a way outside of the fence. My thought is that any of today's light-weight vehicles going highway speeds that hits a buffalo is likely to fare well with such an encounter and a fatality is perhaps likely. The same results would apply to a confused and ornery buffalo that might take into his mind to squash a person regardless of the circumstances. I am not sure what the penal law says about all of that, but you would certainly think that the plaintiffs in a civil suit would have a pretty strong case for a substantial award. I would think that alone would make the owner of the animal very happy to have someone put it down for them.

So far, bow hunting is a lot less of a carnival atmosphere. It allows one to actually pattern deer rather than patterning hunters. I say "so far" because every year brings the two styles of hunting closer and closer together. Those of us that hunt state land are generally finding things more and more crowded every year. Some of that is due to the non-hunting uses of state land, and some is due to the increasing success rates due to equipment changes.

Can't wait for the next round to hit???? Aren't you just a prince. Damn.....You run into all kinds on these forums.

So, any sign of those floods that they are expecting?

Don't ignore those packages of dried food that you can buy at Ganders, Bass-pro, Field and stream stores. Yeah it's pricey, but damn good. I know you have ATVs, and you aren't all that far back in, so cargo space and weight is not a concern. But that stuff is pretty darn tasty and convenient and offers a heck of a variety. Even if you carry in some fresh and canned stuff, the addition of some of that dried food can add some great change-ups in diet.

It's a wound for sure, but let's not assume that every malady that wildlife suffers is manmade.....lol. There are so many ways that deer get injured that are simply a part of their normal life. It is impossible to tell from these two pictures exactly what he cause of that mark was.

I repeat.....Blaze orange does not make you bullet-proof.

You are hunting exclusively for mature bucks, then you have to hunt where they are. Don't be looking at stuff you are already doing right. For one thing, perhaps the state land you are hunting is over-pressured either by hunters or non-hunter use. Mature pressured bucks are really damn hard to hunt (during legal shooting hours).

New York has not had an excellent safety record because blaze orange is not mandatory. From what I have seen, NYS hunters treat blaze orange as though it is mandatory. Over all the years that I have been hunting, thankfully, I have seen only two idiots out there in camo. Ha-ha, maybe I haven't seen them because they were in camo. But the fact is that we do not refer to them as the "orange army" because they are decked out in camo. I am not a big proponent of mandatory orange, but I wouldn't exactly get real mad if it did become mandatory. I really hate the idea that there are people posted out there in full camo.

54 consecutive gun deer seasons for me, and 53 bow deer seasons without missing any.

I really am enjoying the thread and thanks for posting it, but regarding the size, age or whatever that you feel you should be taking, you should never feel that you need anyone's approval but your own. Do not let others influence how you feel about hunting and whatever kill that satisfies you. We have too much of that going on these days where we spend way too much time worrying about what someone else thinks we should be hunting. If you can break that mindset, I think your enjoyment of hunting will jump a few hundred percent.