Doc

You are right on target. Learning and reasoning does not start at a human level. And just because a deer's intelligence does not match humans, doesn't mean that they do not have any intelligence. The real question is just where are the limits of a deer's ability to learn, not whether or not they do have the ability to learn.

I'm simply saying that learned behavior is by definition not instinctive behavior. And yes it does take a certain level of mental processing to equate that hook with freedom. He was not born with the instinct to unhook latches and open gates. But he was born with the ability to learn.

Actually the criteria as far as I could find was a very loosely worded phrase relating to doing harm one's self and/or others. So needless to say, some bureacracy will have to be created or added on to to conjure up the details of what exactly that means, and how the reporting structure is to take place (forms, etc.). Administrative bloat. And similar to all other boondoggles that the government conjures up, there's going to be screw-ups. And then since gun control is a politically sensitive issue, you can rest assured that the fine print finally worked out (and subject to no real legislative over-sight) will be arranged to include as many people as they can possibly sneak in. Do i trust them? ..... hell no. Why would I? Why would anyone but the most naive?

Learned experiences and responses are not instinctive.

And just who is it that passes judgement on the questions you have just raised? I'll bet it's not all spelled out in detail in the law. Although I do believe they put the qualifier on it that the attending psychiatrist or whatever had to judge that the mental impairment had to pose some danger to himself or others. That's still a huge grey area.

I'm hoping that the Safe act goes down. It seems to me as a totally untrained person in matters of law and constitutionality that there are two grounds for declaring the law illegal. At least that's all I have heard so far. One is the impact on the 2nd Amendment. That is a tricky one because there are already a whole lot of accepted and installed laws that in my opinion violate the 2nd Amendment in exactly the same way. And these have been challenged through all the courts amnd upheld. So I am a bit worried about that one. The other basis for over-turning involve the process they used for passing the law with this covert, razzle-dazzle, super speed, without the legally prescribed amount of time for public comment and debate. Well, Cuomo has his (our) battery of lawyers working to know that one down. One thing I am starting to realize is that this is no ordinary scum-bag. He enjoys the fight, and he is very good at it. So, I am taking nothing for granted or getting any sort of positive vibes from any of this yet. And then ...... Even if we do get this thing trashed on some basis, there is nothing keeping them from amending the law slightly to satisfy the court's itches and then re-passing it. That is why we have to keep up the pressure on our reps. If it turns out that the process of passing the law is the illegal part, what keeps them from re-proposing the law and voting it through again only this time with all the t's crossed and i's dotted. Think about that.

Goats understand that the best stuff to eat is outside that fence. It's either that or they just appreciate a good challenge ..... lol. Whatever their reason for wanting to get out, if they can stand there and watch what it takes to unlock and get out of a gate, I find it hard that somebody can't understand that that is "learned" behavior. There is no "instinct" in that. I don't know whether that is assigning human traits to animals or not. I think it is simply understanding that animals can be taught things and have the ability to learn. Personally I only know what I have seen. And to think that a deer does not have the same abilities as a goat to learn things may not be the most correct thinking either.

As long as we've got Cuomo and his cohorts threatening guns and ammo, and Obama flexing his gun-banning muscle, this panic can go on for one heck of a long time. In fact if these gun-grabbing polititians ever understand how they have paralyzed the purchase of ammo, they may develop a policy of proposing some periodic gun and ammo restrictions every so many months just to keep the panic going indefinitely. They have to be having a real belly-laugh over the situation that gun owners are causing each other. It's too bad that we have some in our ranks that are willingly playing into their hands.

That Cuomo is one scarey dude. Not just scarey looking (check out those crazy eyes ....lol), but he has the attitudes and mentality and talent and desire to trash anything in his path to get his way. He has become a master of making the government do his bidding. Just remember, as dangerous as he is as Governor, just imagine what great tricks he can pull as President. I look at how callously he regards such things as the Constitution, and wonder what kinds of damage he can create as President. He's not a guy to be underestimated, trusted or voted for. We've got a bonafide megalo-maniac sitting in the Governor's mansion, and I don't think a lot of people realize it.

Even if you ignore a person's right to privacy (which you shouldn't), what do you do about a legal requirement that in effect would keep those that are dangerously mentally ill from ever seeking medication and treatment for their condition. Don't you eventually wind up with more seriously unmedicated looneys on the street. It is one heck of a balancing act that needs a whole lot more thought than those Albany freaks gave it. The idea of taking their time and getting medical professionals involved for assistance in making the right choices is a step in logic that they apparently are not capable of. They were in such a hurry to strike and make the most of the dead children and firemen that they had no interest in figuring out whether what they were doing was the right thing or not. They didn't even care. They were just so giddy over having a properly worked public over some tragedies that they couldn't help themselves. That's Cuomo's new montra ...... "Never waste a good tragedy".

I don't care what you call it, it still comes out pretty darn smart....lol. Running away would be more of an instinctual reaction. To me, it looked like a learned and reasoned out act. She saw the danger and figured out that letting the hunter pass was a way to safety. It wasn't like she was frozen in fear. She was really quite deliberate in the way she laid down inside of adequate cover. She had it figured out that if she laid down and sat tight, the danger would pass. As it turned out, it was a pretty darn smart way to escape the hunter. I'll tell you something that I learned about other critters that are very similar to deer. We used to have a couple of goats. They were fenced into a pasture that had a door-like gate for an entrance. It wasn't too long before I found the goats wandering around the yard. I put them back, and before I got up to the house, the gate was open and they were heading for one of our prized shrubs. So, I locked them back up and watched how they were getting out. The next thing I knew, one of the goats reared up on his hind legs and planted her front legs against the gate while she picked at the hook until she got it unlatched. That goofey goat had watched me everytime I went in and out and realized that the hook on the gate was the thing she had to work to get it open. She not only figured that out, but realized exactly what motion the hook had to go through to come loose from the fence staple that the hook worked with. There was no instinct involved there. That was 100% learned behavior. I'll bet there's probably not a lot of difference in intelligence between a goat and a deer. They both are capable of learning what works.

From the article: "Several veterans and their advocates say it would deter many from seeking counseling and medications to deal with post-traumatic stress disorder or other psychological issues. Veterans fear their rights would be taken away." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That was the first thought that popped into my mind. We may have a whole bunch of mentally disturbed people not being treated because of this "tattle-tale" portion of the law. This may actually make matters even worse by increasing the number untreated people on the streets. I understand the intent of that provision, but like so many things that are so well intentioned, not enough thought is given to the resulting unintended consequences.

This guy is really getting out of control. He is taking on the Justice Branch of the government now. Watch him closely. You may be looking at the kind of president he will be if he should be elected to that office. This guy is scarey.

Whenever the discussion of deer intelligence comes up, I am reminded of back when I was a new hunter, hunting on my uncle's place. I had an elevated position that looked down on a swamp. I saw a big doe that was not a legal shooter at the time. She was standing up looking intently at an approaching hunter. She laid down in the cat-tails, and let this guy pass within 15 or 20 feet of her. Once he was out of sight, she slowly walked off in the other direction. I believe that this tactic is used a lot more than we know, and may well explain why after opening day, all the deer seem to disappear. Pretty darned smart.

Bow. When I get too old and feeble to use my bow, and assuming I am still fit enought to climb our "killer hill", the shotgun or rifle will do just fine. If I can't lift my rifle or climb the hill, then probably it is time to quit .... lol. Pretty simple for me.

Speaking of changes in hunting over long periods, I was reading an artical in the American Hunter yesterday that was about how state lands have changed over the years since they were first purchased. The article was about publically owned lands across the country and not just NYS. However, I can see what they were saying even here in our own state. The article was pointing out how states take mostly a hands-off policy regarding maintenance of public lands. And so over the decades from the time they were mostly farming lands, they have matured and moved through the transitional habitat that most wildlife requires, into heavy over-story kinds of lands that are very unfriendly to deer, rabbits, grouse, etc., and are moving toward a sterile kind of habitat that cannot support a whole lot of wild critters. With only a few rare exceptions there really has not been any kind of habitat management to create the diversity needed to support a diverse population of critters. They didn't mention it, but I have seen the same thing happening in private forests as well. As the nation's lands keep getting divided up and then divided up again, over and over, the new generations of landowner think there is something good in keeping habitat forever wild. The idea of logging state forests doesn't seem to be a very popular one within the general (uneducated in the ways and needs of wildlife) public, and so the management agencies are reluctant to do what they know should be done. Also shrinking budgets eliminate a lot of the options for changing the situation. So anyway, perhaps we will see hunting impacted by this unwise neglect of habitat. It may actually turn out that even small game hunting will be impacted, and we may find severe shortages of things to hunt because of it.

People react to these gun control threats in a lot of peculiar ways. Most of the time the reactions aren't the slightest bit rational. A few decades from now, there will be a lot of people with some old green ammo kicking around from closet to closet ..... lol.

It looks like Walgreens has sales and processing for film. A quick search on Google ("35 millimeter filmprocessing") gives all kinds of sources for buying fim as well as getting it purchased. I too would recommend switching to all digital, but that isn't what you asked.

No, the best option is to fight the law in the courts (which is already in progress). The second best idea is to vigorously lobby your legislators to guarantee that if this law does go down in the courts that a brand new one does not get authored and passed that doesn't have the illegal aspects to it. That is a serious option that we should be doing on a regular and repetitive basis already. Another necessary option is to check which ones of your state legislators voted for this law and ensure that you nor anybody you can convince votes against them (regardless of what kind of jerk is running against them). Make it known that voting with anti-gun intentions does cost them. License boycotts are not reliable because hardly anyone will ever take that action seriously and participate. Also, you have no guarantees that it will be only one season that it will cost you. And also, it is kind of like cutting off your nose to spite your face. As hunters, there is nothing to be gained by trying to destroy the agency that is charged with game management. That's the wrong target.

Lol ..... I suspect that there probably won't be as many people interested in becoming felons as you may think. By the way, did you know that a felony as a result of non-compliance with this law could result in all your guns being confiscated and the right to ever buy another one would be forfeited?

Lol .... we have a lot of geese that never left.

I have an overhead bird feeder that they haven't caught onto yet. Ever see those old-timey clothes-lines That used to run from the upper stories of apartment buildings, with pulleys and things. Well that's how our bird feeder is arranged. We have a raised ranch, and the line runs from the kitchen window to one of the trees in the woods behind the house. Keeps everything up good and high. We can pull it in to fill it and send it back out a ways so the birds will go to it.

Yeah, I got caught this morning. I had everything all scheduled out for the day, and started the day off 1 hour in the hole when wifey reminded me to set the clocks ahead.

Sounds good.I'll have to try it.

You know, it wasn't that long ago that I was on stand, being as quiet as possible, paying attention to wind direction, all camoed up and trying to be motionless, only to get picked off at 50 yards or more when I tried to lift my bow into position or even draw the string back. While still-hunting, the slightest mis-step or shift in wind direction would send the deer charging away. They definitely were displaying some of the wiliest behavior, instincts and defensiveness of anything in the woods. Ok, so here we are in March. The law says I cannot shoot these guys and magically they seem to have read those laws and looked at that calendar and decided that they really don't have to worry about me now. It all was made so blatently clear when we arrived home late yesterday afternoon. When I pulled into my parking spot, there was a deer standing a short distance up the bank behind the house ...... just staring at the car. That was about 20 yards away. I expected when the car doors opened he would take off like a crazy-thing and head up the hill. Instead my wife opened her door and got out, and said something like "Hi-there", and he immediated came off the hill like some tame pet and walked towards us and down under the bird feeder. Now it was about 15 yards away. So I got out slammed the door and walked into the house. I got upstairs and looked out the window and sure enough, there he was working over the seeds that the birds had dumped out of the feeder....two feet from the house. In just a few months they had learned that I was no longer a threat. So just how smart are these critters? And who is supplying them with the calendars and a copy of the game laws?