Doc

This is one of the reasons why my arrow budget has gone to zero .... lol.

As long as everything stays together, there will be no changes this year. I did re-fletch a half dozen arrows over the winter. Other than that, nothing is changing much. No need to mess with success. The only thing I have to keep improving is my use of what I already have.

I generally run about a week between checking.

I'm not too familiar with bear behavior, but are they starting to get like other critters where they are simply learning to work around humans and their activities? Your story sounds a bit like that may be happening. Not sure I like that when it comes to bears ..... lol.

I guess when you have had the equipment for decades and built a pile of arrows with it, you get a different perspective on that. I have reached a point where I don't even buy arrows anymore. And that does save me a pile of money. Sorry for side-tracking the thread. I should have started my own thread. Carry on.

Yes I was talking about aluminum arrows. I've had no need to buy anything but an occasional pack of nocks, and some vanes in the past 10 years and probably really a lot longer. So I guess I have saved a ton of money by having the equipment to build and repair any of my arrows rather than running out and buying new arrows at the exhorbitant prices that they are selling for these days. I know that I would probably have spent a small fortune over the years if I had to run to a pro-shop to get every vane replaced, or bought new shafts every time I shortened up my draw length or replaced a blown nock. Plus my arrows are custom made perfectly to my draw length. Plus, there is a certain level of satisfaction to be able to build your own stuff. It's just another good activity during the off-season. I know everytime I stop at Gander Mountain or Bass Pro Shop, I always take a walk past the arrow displays and am amazed at the ridiculous prices they are charging these days. I don't have a lot of money to throw away, so I am glad I made the investment in my multi-fletcher, and cut-off saw back when cash was a lot more plentiful. It's all paid for itself many times, over the years. When I bought my last dozen raw shafts (years ago), the difference between those and made up arrows was horrendous. Of course that was back when Bowhunter Discount Warehouse was still operating. I would guess that FS Arrows might give you some pretty good prices today on shafting (if they are still in business), but can't say for sure. But of course it does rely on shopping around for the best prices. Like I said, having my own repair and assembly equipment has kept me from having to buy shafts in a long time. So I can't say how much can be saved these days. Basicly I am set up so I will never buy another arrow again for the rest of my life. LOL.... no, I haven't joined the throw-away society on everything yet...... especially arrows. And I hate paying somebody to do repairs or assembly that I can so easily do myself. So for me it just makes sense to build my own.

See, that's why I really don't get all that hung up on antler scores. That is a magnificent buck that I would have a real problem criticizing. Really, the score could never convey how nice a deer that is. I think he definitely has a place in the gene-pool, and I would never shoot him just because of his genetics. Shoot him because he is a great buck and let mother nature take care of genetics. That's just the way I approach hunting. I'm not a big fan of measuring success by the numbers and that's where I disagree with a lot of hunters and a lot of the fancy management fads.

Does anyone make their own arrows anymore? I used to save a ton by buying the components and putting them together myself.

Ever notice that all conversations never stay glued on topic, even when you're talking face to face with someone. That' s just the nature of conversation. Forums are no different.

I have a neighbor that I'm sure burns up enough ammo to keep the feds busy if they started monitoring that sort of thing. I have seen others that have no problem burning up 1000 rounds. annually, I go through quite a bit of ammo myself. Do we want our law enforcement officers chasing around after all these innocent, legal, harmless activities? I mean we can come up with enough nonsense-type laws to keep them all busy watching us law abiding folks so that they won't have time to investigate real terrorists and others that really do pose a threat. I mean, if we put our minds to it, I'm sure we can concoct all kinds of worthless laws to keep them people busy and vitually impotent in terms of being able to do their job.

I agree that shot placement is way more important than the style of broadhead. That is why I encourage those that need mechanical broadheads to go ahead and use them. It's far more important that accuracy is acheived ..... everytime, without fail than to be out there with broadheads that have a mind of their own.

Among many other youth promotions, NYB already conducts youth archery hunts.

No, I think you missed the point of my question. If parents and other hunters currently have no interest in taking kids out hunting In regular season, where are all these people going to be coming from to serve as mentors for a special youth season. I don't believe that anything about special seasons can force parent/hunters to do the right thing any more than during the regular season days. It is quite logical that attendees of any special youth season will be exactly the same people that are already providing opportunities for kids within current regular big-game seasons. So where is the additional recruitment?

That is one reason why I believe that deer season is not the right way to initiate a kid to hunting. You really can't beat squirrel hunting for getting kids in the woods, and keeping them in the game with non-stop action. That is one of the "old ways" of introducing kids to hunting, and it does still work. Stir in some rabbit hunting and bird hunting, and before you know it you will have a kid on your hands that will be completely ready to deer hunt. Starting at the top is a huge mistake that can serve as a big frustration. A kid with a year or two of intense small game hunting under his belt is pretty well indoctrinated and ready and eager for the bigger challenge of bigger game. The small game season is custom made for hunter introduction as well as learning about woodslore and animal habits and hunting skills. I am a big believer in that and have seen it all work first hand with my own kids and nephews, and now grand-kids. It all happens with no hassles, no boredom, and a wealth of good hunting mentoring to boot. No special season required for properly building hunting skills and dedication from the ground up. And no hassles from bored kids that have short attention spans. And the season lasts for a whole lot longer than just a couple of days.

We talk a lot about youth recruitment, and that is a big part of it all along with problems of getting kids into outdoor activities of all sorts. However, no one ever quotes stats on how fast adults are dropping out as well. I do know people who at one time were die-hard hunters that simply stopped hunting ...... permanently. And these are not old guys who physically couldn't do it anymore. these are guys in the 30's and 40's. You know what's really bad about losing middle aged people is that we are talking about the parents that would be the ones influencing their kids. So we not only lose them but their kids as well. So my question is, has anyone seen any stats about those that desert hunting after they have been in it for a while? And another question would be what are some of the reasons for adult hunters leaving the sport. I think the problem is a whole lot bigger than just the fact that we can't get kids interested anymore. It appears that we not only have to get kids involved with hunting, but also have to worry about figuring out how to keep them there too. I wonder if the DEC has even looked into this aspect of the problem?

It's a lot different world than it was when I taught my kids how to hunt and fish and enjoy what nature has to offer us. Yes hunters have perhaps been dropping the ball, but I have seen the development of "mandatory" overtime, and people being wired up with contact at the office even when they were home. I have seen massive changes in recreation that now takes in some pretty sedentary activities involving the computer and communications devices. I've seen huge areas go from rural farming communities to large tracts of suburban development. I have watched people dragging kids out to go camping only to have the kids sit all day in the apartment-like camper playing computer games or exercising their thumbs with texting and such. It's difficult to completely blame the parents when the entire American lifestyle has been turned upside down. Hunting and fishing and trapping simply aren't cool anymore. And that's a situation that's going on around the country. The whole culture is geared to fast paced, modernism. There is no surprise anymore that hunter numbers are diminishing. Even adult hunters are abandoning the sport and taking with them any opportunity or interest in passing on a culture of hunting.

Actually, any kids that are taking part in the youth deer hunting season are not really little kids. They are of the age where they know that they have to be quiet. But also, they are not infants that have to be coddled as far as temperatures are concerned, especially given the quality of modern cold-weather hunting gear. When my sons were of that age, we did all kinds of hunting together, not just deer hunting. They never complained about the cold or made any undue noise. They simply wanted to hunt, and they understood the basic principles of hunting from prior instruction. You know, it was a very, very, very , very, long time ago, but I still remember my first hunt with Dad. We were hunting for squirrels up behind the house, in fact I can pick out the very spot today. I already knew the routine and what was expected of me from discussions that took place before we even went out. There was no fidgeting, or whining about the cold. We just went about the business of sitting there waiting for the squirrels to appear. It was fun. No special season, just an afternoon on the hill hunting.

There should be a second part to your question. That being, if hunters are not taking kids hunting now, what makes anyone think that they will during a special season? Who are the people who will mentor kids in a special season? .... They are the same ones that are currently doing it during the regular season.... aren't they?

Good point!! leave those stumps good and high even if you do eventually rely on a dozer. It's so much easier to get them out roots and all if you leave some good leverage height on the stumps. Of course a lot of what kind of equipment you need to use depends on the diameter and variety of the trees. Here's something I have heard of people doing that sounds like a good idea. They buy an old dozer, do their work and then sell it for just about what they paid for it. Of course that means that you would have to learn how to operate the thing ...... probably not a bad thing to know for future projects anyway. It's probably not something I would be getting involved with, but if you're an adventure some sort, it could save a pile of money and get an awful lot of work done for you.

I think there is a natural tendency to be a bit touchy about those who seem to delight in bad-mouthing our country. That generally will put me in a spring-loaded, pissed off condition. However even with all that said, I do think it may not be so bad to keep a critical eye on trends and features that might indicate negative changes in our status and national condition. What sends me into orbit is when I sense people making a sport out of "shock-talk" where they engage in what I would call mindless U.S. bashing, and seem to take some kind of perverse delight in that or try to come off as some phoney, lofty, super-open minded, superior intellect. I can be sent into two directions when it comes to that sort of thing. Hysterical laughter at the pretentiousness or finding myself going off the deep end in anger .... lol. It all depends on how it hits me.

Yes, I do believe that more pressure is put on bucks than does, but I think the bigger reason why the lady-goats seem so much easier to take is simply because there are more of them. So they do seem to be "easier" than bucks. The scenario posed in the original post is that bucks become an unhuntable gender. That really would change the dynamics considerably. And I believe that the cunning of the does would become as legendary as the bucks are currently.

Oh come on, can't we have at least one discussion without it turning into this?

I don't suppose that any of that would correlate to the implementation of the "apprentice licenses" themselves would it? There was some reason that they stepped around flat out stating that those sales were totally due to special seasons. Any mention of what those youth license sales would have been without special seasons? I couldn't find it. Yes they are selling youth licenses and if you had bothered to read my reply you would have noted that I said the creation of youth licenses is a good thing. Add to that that also lowering hunting ages is a good thing. These are positive moves, but none of that has a thing to do with special seasons. And the spike in 2009 seems to indicate that there are other factors at work here besides just special seasons. They noted that spike but didn't explain a lot about the cause of it. Also, I didn't see any explanation in the article of how all of a sudden they seemed to have mentors coming out of the woodwork for a special season when none can be found during the season. Ever wonder about that? Why is that? It does lend a little credence to Skully's assertion that guys want this special season to get kids out of their hair while they do their hunting. But that's another subject. As far as my arguments against the youth season, I have made them clear. In fact you have already noted that I don't hesitate to repeat them, ad nauseum, for those that have problems understanding or who pretend not to understand them or simply want to ignore them. So don't be insinuating that I have any unstated agenda. I have been up-front and complete in describing my objections. If you want to jump on the bandwagon have at it. I hope you don't take it too hard when it does absolutely no good. If human nature plays out as usual, there will be a lot of back-patting and congratulations and another continuation of the pretense that the problem has been put to bed. With the pressure off to come up with new solutions, it will signal the beginning of another long period lacking in creative and innovative and truly effective solutions. Whether you like it or not, even you have to have at least enough understanding of how human nature and the DEC works. They have done exactly what was demanded of them. They have "done something ..... anything". That's all we have asked of them and we have not demanded a solution that works. Well, we got what we asked for.

Ouch! ....... Man that's harsh.

This is currently the hottest topic in hunting. Everyone seems to have an opinion, and I haven't heard of too many that are riding the fence on this one. It is interesting to hear all the different points regarding ARs. What is a bit disappointing is the number of threads all on the same subject, all at the same time. It certainly does water the discussion down considerably since nobody has time to access and respond to each and every one of them.