Doc

Well, you have just proven my point that you are not even reading my replies. The things that I have been talking about have not even been tried, so how could they not be working. That is why it is so frustrating to try to discuss anything with you guys. What's the point if you refuse to read opposing views?

Well, those are great statistics about the effectiveness of establishing "apprentice licenses" which I assume is another phrase for "junior licenses", but when it came to the stats, I saw nothing that talked about or indicated that any special hunts added even one hunter to the roles. Yes, I am a believer in junior licenses. That really was not the topic here. My question related to stats showing how many new hunters were added because of special seasons, not special licenses.

I keep repeating myself because apparently it is all going right over your head, or you just find it convenient to ignore logical arguments. Either way, you win, because I really am getting weary of explaining things and having them ignored. And also, if you are going to insist that these special seasons work elsewhere, please explain how many youth attendees have actually purchased additional licenses in subsequent years. To me that is the only measure of whether they are working or not. After all, it is not a state sponsored "good-time", it is supposed to be a recruitment tool.

I guess you didn't read a word of my reply, so I'll just save the effort of replying to this one.

First of all, let me straighten you out on a few points. As a bowhunter, I could care less whether they hold that bogus special season. My only concerns are about people concocting this ridiculous season and then walking away wiping their hands convinced that the problem has been taken care of and all is well in the world. That kind of solution is definitely typical of today's thinking and actions, but I believe that something more than simple feel-good, knee-jerk solutions have to be worked on. In fact, it is just possible that some who would have otherwise taken some kids out may change their minds thinking that the problem has already been taken care of by "somebody" because of the creation ofthis special season. Personally, I doubt if I will be out there fighting the sweat and mosquitos, bowhunting at the time they are proposing the youth hunt anyway. Also, I thoroughly believe that the impact will be so insignificant that I probably won't even know that it is going on. So you can save your tirade about the evil bowhunters and maybe spend a bit more time actually thinking about real, useful, honest, solutions. I also have to ask. Those that are so hot to take a kid out during a special season, what is keeping them from taking a kid out during the conventional season? Is there something magical about a special season that all of a sudden makes hunters do the responsible thing? Has anybody actually put enough thought into this idea to ever ask that question? No, not really. Somebody has come up with an idea for them and it's real easy to mindlessly sign on to it (good idea or bad) and then pat themselves on the back thinking they have really done something. When that happens, all creative thinking ends. The problem is assumed to be fixed, and any new thoughts are never started. That's the danger of just trying something .... anything. The other thing that has always impressed me about these special seasons is that they are primarily aimed at kids that already have an interest and would normally be eager to get involved with hunting anyway whether there was a special season or not. That really is not recruitment. That's simply a couple of extra days to hunt. When you start talking about programs that reach kids that are not already engaged or interested in hunting then I will consider that you are working on a recruitment problem. That would require some real creative and useful and effective thinking. As written in my previous reply, get behind meaningful things. Work on some of those hunters that can't seem to have the time to introduce youngsters to hunting. Work on public programs aimed at convincing hunters and hunter organizations to get involved in youth mentoring and recruitment. Work on some of those kids that are not interested in hunting and make them interested. Work on up-grading the public image of hunting. Re-institute the "cool " factor. Insist that the DEC get active in schools and other youth groups. If you want to increase recruitment into hunting, you have to realize that you are competing against all the other distractions of the day. We're into a sales job, not just a few extra hunting days for those that are already sold. Put some real thought into the problem, and then get behind real solutions.

Well actually it is quite simple. I want efforts that actually make some sense rather than the gimmicky ideas that people are placing their hopes on these days. If they want to do useful things, then do them in time slots that make sense (For all the reasons I have previously commented about). If you can't rally hunters to mentor youngsters during real gun seasons, what on earth makes you think that they will do so during some trumped up special season? If you can come up with a way to produce such phantom recruitment help, then why can't you do it during traditional hunting seasons. To me it all stacks up to a bunch of wishful thinking and a desire to come up with something .... anything .... that can allow hunters to simply place on the books and then walk away feeling like the problem is solved and that somebody else will now pick up the ball. Now, if the DEC really wants to do something besides window dressing, feel-good, nonsense, then perhaps they should be attempting to become more visible and active in school programs. Maybe even begin some pro-hunting, fishing and trapping P.R. activities that actually reach out to the non-hunting public. Activities that coerce and encourage hunters to become involved in recruitment would also be useful and aimed specifically at the problem. One of the most meaningful activities that the DEC ever bhecame involved in was the National Hunting and Fishing Days celebrations that they have left floundering (Speaking specifically from recent experiences at the Avon celebrations). There was something that reached an awful lot of people including more youths than any special season will ever reach. And each time I go there it is shrinking. At one time it was a vibrant, growing activity that got larger every year. That was back when Ron Shroeder ran the show and actually took some interest in it. They want to do something that really has an effect on growing and promoting the sport, there is something big that needs a bit more attention than they are apparently willing to give it. So there are things that the DEC can do to promote hunting that do not involve phoney efforts like special seasons. And, there certainly are a lot of things that those who are so concerned over recruitment can actually do if they simply put their actions where their mouths are. It is amazing how whenever recruitment is discussed, everyone has been conditioned to the knee-jerk response of suggesting some kind of special season like that is some kind of magic bullet that will save the sport. The fact is that we already have a season. It is the time that actual hunting is traditionally done. It is the time of year that friends and families traditionally do get involved. And it is a time that is most likely to offer positive results to new-comers. That is the time to realistically introduce kids to the sport. But it does involve real hunter dedication and action.

There are a few areas where I do believe that the U.S. has dropped way down in terms of the general individual and national character that most U.S. citizens once shared. My personal opinion is that we probably couldn't survive another depression of the size of 1929. I believe that instead of self reliance, cooperation and charity that was prevalent back then, a depression would plunge us into a state of barbarism, mass starvation, and lawlessness, the likes of which we can hardly imagine. The "me generation" would manifest itself in ways that would absolutely horrify those that went through or even read about the great depression. I don't think we are made of the same fibre that brought us through those trying times. Also, the way the economies are so entangled these days, there wouldn't really be any place to flee to in the event of a depression. Be careful what you wish for.

Not a lot of reason to go into town anymore ..... lol.

If I had to pick one day when I was most likely to see the most deer, it would be opening day of gun season. It would not be some sweaty day with bugs buzzing around my face. In fact given past experience, I can almost guarantee that I will have at least one shooting opportunity sometime during opening day. If I had to pick the one time and place where I could enjoy the experience of comraderie and hunt-camp atmosphere, it would be opening weekend, not some obscure summer day when hunting is the last thing on anybody's mind. In other words, if I was trying to sell hunting to a newcomer, opening week-end would be my time of choice.

I'm pretty sure that as the U.S. goes, so goes the planet. What I mean by that is that the world is so financially intertwined that if anything were to happen to America, we would likely take down any other place that anyone might think to move to. Of course that works both ways .... The economy of Greece threatens default, and Wall Street has a nervous breakdown. Isn't globalization wonderful?

Here's the problem I have with all these gimmicky kinds of solutions. If recruitment were as simple as taking kids hunting, all the potential for that exists today during regular season. Creating a special time slot is a feel good action that makes all potential mentors feel like they have done something. But as long as hunters refuse to not take kids out now, there is nothing that I can see that will have them taking time to do it during some special season. In fact with special events, hunters are more likely to assume the problem is taken care of and assume that someone else will be out with the kids. Furthermore, I do not believe that late summer with the bugs and heat is the most attractive time to introduce anyone to hunting. I would rather they be introduced to the real activity of hunting along with friends and family and a time slot that includes the most fruitful days of hunting. There truly is the aspect of comraderie that can be added to the experience if that first introduction happens at a time when other hunters are taking part. That is a feature that most likely will not be a part of the introduction if a special and separate season is adopted.I am always very skeptical when people start relying on gimmicky solutions. We all know what the problems of recruitment are, and until we start taking the time and effort to address them in a realistic and honest fashion, the recruitment problem will continue to dog us.

I've got to say that the most important item in hooking kids on hunting is to show them lots of action. And Opening day of gun season provides that action. It may or may not be the best time for that monster buck, but most places have some kind of deer parading by all day and plenty of pressure to keep them moving. Further, opening day is the time when kids get to hunt with friends and relatives to add the element of comraderie to the whole event. Also for those that worry about discomfort, opening day of gun season is generally free of bugs and oppressive heat and is a whole lot more representative of what hunting is really like. Yes, it's true that it takes a special dedicated individual to mentor some kid on your best and most important day of the season, but that is absolutely the best time to sell the sport. Not some trumped up poor imitation at the end of summer. Honestly, a little less reliance on tricks and useless window dressing style events and a little more actual honest effort, in season, providing worthwhile introductions and real mentoring of new recruits to hunting in the fashion that worked on us, and maybe we really could get kids truly interested in hunting.

I generally have that same problem, but I blame that on the fact that my fear of heights has me grabbing the tree with both hands. That makes my shooting real inconsistant.

This just keeps going on and on doesn't it? .... lol. Look, I've said it before, and I repeat it now. This idea of filling the year with special youth seasons is merely a cop-out for those that don't want to take time out of their hunting schedule to mentor a young person or two. So they simply come up with a "special season", and hope that someone else will volunteer to take a kid out for them. Let's face it, there is no reason why you cannot take a kid along during regular season. Most likely with the additional hunting pressure and the leafless woods, they will actually see more deer. But then, that means that we might have to let the kid take the shot and might actually have to put forth a real effort to actually help the kid get a deer. That's why I don't get all excited that the special youth season may be in jeopardy. Who cares? It's just a useless piece of window dressing anyway that makes everyone think that something wonderful has been done. For crying out loud people, if you are really convinced that we need youth recruitment then do something meaningful. Give up a few days of your hunt to actually take a kid out in the most productive time of the year and give them a real look at what hunting is. Never mind these phoney-boloney two and three day "events". Do something that really does have an effect.

I don't even ask for a gun by gun listing of firearms that in your opinion ought to be banned. Just simply some general guidelines or criteria for figuring out which guns are the ones that go out and kill people and commit crimes. Do you consider all semi-autos to be worthy of banning? Is there some appearance feature that you believe makes certain guns harmful and worthy of banning. You can't just say that there are some guns that should be banned without having at least some rough idea of what makes them belong in a category of being illegal, and why.

Ha-ha .... probably a generational thing. I skipped right over that electronic squealy stuff and went straight to country & western. That acid rock stuff never did a lot for me. Doesn't matter. There's a lot of what I listen to that turns other people off ..... lol. All that aside, that has nothing to do with the Nuge's views on guns and hunting. And even though there is occasionally some practice that he does that I personally don't like (you mentioned one), the general message that he brings is basically things that I strongly agree with. I have a hard time going out of my way to criticize anyone who is putting up such a strong public defence of those things that I hold dear..... bad music and all .... lol.

Basicly, trespassing is a self-centered, arrogant attitude that the world owes them something and that it is the duty of others to provide them with recreational facilities. These people are simply showing their contempt for the concept of private ownership, and for those who have worked hard to accumulate the means to be a property owner. Further, it is an act that requires no resulting consideration or tolerance from the landowner. If the land is adequately posted, there is no excuse and no reason for forgiveness. It is a direct in-your-face act that shows ill-will toward the landowner and should be dealt with accordingly. When I put my signs up, I made it a rule to be in sight of at least three signs at anytime you are approaching the line. That makes it impossible for anyone to "accidently" cross the posted line without knowing exactly what they are doing and being fully mindfuil that they are doing something in direct opposition to the owner's wishes. When they do that on my land, there is no doubt about their attitudes toward me. So, I get a bit hard-line on the subject. There are some very narrow exceptions where I will allow people on my property when they obtain proper permission. This is the place that I live. It is not anybody's right to question the reasons for the signs or my reasons for putting them up. I paid good money for the land, and each year I pay a fairly hefty amount of taxes for the priviledge of owning that land and determining the use of it. And by the way, I might add that it was trespasser abuse that caused the signs to go up in the first place. So anyone who is trying to justify trespassing or who are trying to paint a picture of harmlessness, just understand the contentious mentality that is behind this arrogant act. People that feel a right to arbitrarily and without permission walk through or otherwise use the place where other people live are not harmless, and certainly do not deserve any kind of special consideration or tolerance.

Yes.

I just got the latest issue of New York Outdoor News, and they said that the Ontario County rifle bill "failed to advance beyond the environmental conservation committee during this legislative session". I'm not sure what that all means, but last time I heard that kind of talk, was the last attempt and they had to go back to ground zero to get it started again. That was last year when the budget process stalled (killed) the bill in committee and it had to come all the way back to the county board of supervisors where it got voted down at that time ( I thought permanently). This Ontario County rifle bill seems to be doomed. It all probably means that I have at least one more year to endure a beating by the old 12 guage.

Ha-ha .... wait until you're sitting in your stand and they go merrily marching by just about the time you expect the deer to be getting active. I've had that happen. They're probably just a couple of health-conscious hikers who have decided to make your property part of their daily routine. I'm sure they meant to ask permission. Lol .... where is that chubby little kid on the bike? He should be along any minute.

See, it's a hard thing to say since we have never hunted in the theoretical circumstances of the original post. We have never seen situations where the does were the sought after gender, and the bucks were becoming used to getting a free pass. I think the old lady-goats would surprise you with their adaptability. And then given that bucks have those rutting frailties, I suspect that they would appear real stupid, real fast. Not to mention that they would eventually significantly outnumber the does, and actually become plentiful compared to the does.

I lugged my 3D archery deer target down into the thicket in front of the house, and all I got was a whole lot of foot stompin, head bobbing, and snorts from the group of does that came in. I don't know what went wrong, but they weren't fooled for a minute. Not only were they not fooled, but they were downright irritated. I don't think it was a scent thing, because the wind was in a good direction and they really weren't that close to it. Anyway, after that experience, I never bothered with trying to decoy deer again. I know they work, but just not for me.

That place is stinkin' with poisonous snakes right? Lol ..... your not likely to ever see me stumbling around in the high grass and brush down there looking for hogs. Now I ain't saying it was so, but there could have been a time when I might have been stumbling around some Florida bars looking for wild pigs. It's possible there could have been a few snakes there too ...... lol.

I don't dare hunt for wild mushrooms. I can't tell an edible one from a poisonous one. And then I hear there are copy-cat mushrooms that are poisonous but look like edible ones. Mushroom picking sounds like something I would normally be into, but I just don't know enough about them, and mistakes in selection can turn out rather bad.

Good question. I am interested in what the criteria is that different people use when deciding what guns should be banned. Perhaps if the gun has that threatening look like the so-called assault rifles, maybe that should be used to determine which ones should go. That black color is very lethal you know.....lol. No seriously, exactly what features on a gun determine whether it is more likely to be used in criminal activity and should be eliminated? There are some that would ban all hanguns because of the concealability. Some would outlaw all semi-automatics based on fire-power. Some base their decisions on caliber, or range, or sometimes just the emotional reaction to the appearance of the weapon. So I guess I would also like to hear more on the selection process for gun banning. What exactly is the hot-button of the year?