Doc

Anybody ever try to make anything out of wild grapes?

Well, apparently we can be put into 3 categories of hunters. There is the "meat hunter", a lowly villainous guy who is the scourge of the earth always looking for ways of decimating the deer herd. Then there is "trophy hunter" who never saw a reason for shooting a deer if the rack score wasn't of some particular minimum number. And last there is the "deer benefactor" who apparently doesn't like the meat, only shoots old and toothless deer that are only a few weeks away from a natural death from old age. Yeah that whole paragraph is a bit of a sarcastic description of deer hunters, but the point is that none of us are truly just any one of those. We generally get into using those names only as a prelude to some kind of negative comment in an argument that is escalating toward a set of personal attacks .... lol. The fact is that we usually have a piece of all of those in combination. I don't know too many hunters that don't value the addition of venison to their menu. I also don't know too many that don't appreciate a good buck rack when they are fortunate enough to get one. And we all recognize that we do have to act with some thoughts as to adequate herd management to allow the realization of the first two attitudes. Unfortunately, the controversy of AR can be defended or attacked using these bogus hunter characterizations as criteria. Three different points of view ..... all the ingredients for yet another of our many divisive controversies. The good news is that it all makes for some rather lively forum fodder.

Lol ..... I think this is quite funny because I have also had occasion to name certain deer that might have some outstanding feature. Usually it is a name that has less human attributes though .... lol. I do remember the "Bog Buck", which was a huge buck that hung around a small swampy area on top of the hill. And then there was "Old Knobby" that had a right antler that was a normal 4 points, but the other side was a straight 6" antler that had a big blob of antler at the end ..... a pretty weird looking dude. As far as an antlered fawn, I've got no clue as to how common that may be. I'm thinking that I have seen some tiny little spike bucks that had little 3" or 4" spikes that may have been fawns of that year, but I wouldn't even hazard a guess as to whether they were that year's fawns or not.

Oh no!!! Bad genes!!! Kill it .... kill it now ..... quick kill it before it multiplies! .... lol.

I have had raccoon attacks on my cameras. muddy little hand-prints all over the camera, and some times having the camera pulled out of position. They even had me believing there was something wrong with my cameras because I was getting these pictures that made some of the big trees and surrounding bushes look blurred. I knew that the bigger trees were not moving. So next trip up, I looked at the camera and spotted where a raccoon had grabbed the camera. Apparently he was standing below where he was out of the picture. I have no clue what the big attraction was ..... probably just curiosity.

That is very similar to an old abandoned cemetery that I came across once (fog and all). It all looked exactly like that except there were old tombstones scattered through the woods. Talk about an eerie scene. It was a place that I just wanted to get the heck away from.

From what I am seeing on the radar, and hearing on the news, you probably should be thankful to have missed that batch of ugly storms. Trees down, and other damage. My guess is that the rain amounts were probably damaging as well. That seems to be the problem with this time of year. You either get no rain, or you get way more than you want. Also the kind of nasty stuff that usually comes with these storms (wind, hail, etc.) always makes me cautious what I wish for. Be a good idea to use a modified version of that rain dance ... lol.

Be sure you put it back on. Nobody wants to come across that thing laying around. ..... lol.

This is one of the reasons why my arrow budget has gone to zero .... lol.

As long as everything stays together, there will be no changes this year. I did re-fletch a half dozen arrows over the winter. Other than that, nothing is changing much. No need to mess with success. The only thing I have to keep improving is my use of what I already have.

I generally run about a week between checking.

I'm not too familiar with bear behavior, but are they starting to get like other critters where they are simply learning to work around humans and their activities? Your story sounds a bit like that may be happening. Not sure I like that when it comes to bears ..... lol.

I guess when you have had the equipment for decades and built a pile of arrows with it, you get a different perspective on that. I have reached a point where I don't even buy arrows anymore. And that does save me a pile of money. Sorry for side-tracking the thread. I should have started my own thread. Carry on.

Yes I was talking about aluminum arrows. I've had no need to buy anything but an occasional pack of nocks, and some vanes in the past 10 years and probably really a lot longer. So I guess I have saved a ton of money by having the equipment to build and repair any of my arrows rather than running out and buying new arrows at the exhorbitant prices that they are selling for these days. I know that I would probably have spent a small fortune over the years if I had to run to a pro-shop to get every vane replaced, or bought new shafts every time I shortened up my draw length or replaced a blown nock. Plus my arrows are custom made perfectly to my draw length. Plus, there is a certain level of satisfaction to be able to build your own stuff. It's just another good activity during the off-season. I know everytime I stop at Gander Mountain or Bass Pro Shop, I always take a walk past the arrow displays and am amazed at the ridiculous prices they are charging these days. I don't have a lot of money to throw away, so I am glad I made the investment in my multi-fletcher, and cut-off saw back when cash was a lot more plentiful. It's all paid for itself many times, over the years. When I bought my last dozen raw shafts (years ago), the difference between those and made up arrows was horrendous. Of course that was back when Bowhunter Discount Warehouse was still operating. I would guess that FS Arrows might give you some pretty good prices today on shafting (if they are still in business), but can't say for sure. But of course it does rely on shopping around for the best prices. Like I said, having my own repair and assembly equipment has kept me from having to buy shafts in a long time. So I can't say how much can be saved these days. Basicly I am set up so I will never buy another arrow again for the rest of my life. LOL.... no, I haven't joined the throw-away society on everything yet...... especially arrows. And I hate paying somebody to do repairs or assembly that I can so easily do myself. So for me it just makes sense to build my own.

See, that's why I really don't get all that hung up on antler scores. That is a magnificent buck that I would have a real problem criticizing. Really, the score could never convey how nice a deer that is. I think he definitely has a place in the gene-pool, and I would never shoot him just because of his genetics. Shoot him because he is a great buck and let mother nature take care of genetics. That's just the way I approach hunting. I'm not a big fan of measuring success by the numbers and that's where I disagree with a lot of hunters and a lot of the fancy management fads.

Does anyone make their own arrows anymore? I used to save a ton by buying the components and putting them together myself.

Ever notice that all conversations never stay glued on topic, even when you're talking face to face with someone. That' s just the nature of conversation. Forums are no different.

I have a neighbor that I'm sure burns up enough ammo to keep the feds busy if they started monitoring that sort of thing. I have seen others that have no problem burning up 1000 rounds. annually, I go through quite a bit of ammo myself. Do we want our law enforcement officers chasing around after all these innocent, legal, harmless activities? I mean we can come up with enough nonsense-type laws to keep them all busy watching us law abiding folks so that they won't have time to investigate real terrorists and others that really do pose a threat. I mean, if we put our minds to it, I'm sure we can concoct all kinds of worthless laws to keep them people busy and vitually impotent in terms of being able to do their job.

I agree that shot placement is way more important than the style of broadhead. That is why I encourage those that need mechanical broadheads to go ahead and use them. It's far more important that accuracy is acheived ..... everytime, without fail than to be out there with broadheads that have a mind of their own.

Among many other youth promotions, NYB already conducts youth archery hunts.

No, I think you missed the point of my question. If parents and other hunters currently have no interest in taking kids out hunting In regular season, where are all these people going to be coming from to serve as mentors for a special youth season. I don't believe that anything about special seasons can force parent/hunters to do the right thing any more than during the regular season days. It is quite logical that attendees of any special youth season will be exactly the same people that are already providing opportunities for kids within current regular big-game seasons. So where is the additional recruitment?

That is one reason why I believe that deer season is not the right way to initiate a kid to hunting. You really can't beat squirrel hunting for getting kids in the woods, and keeping them in the game with non-stop action. That is one of the "old ways" of introducing kids to hunting, and it does still work. Stir in some rabbit hunting and bird hunting, and before you know it you will have a kid on your hands that will be completely ready to deer hunt. Starting at the top is a huge mistake that can serve as a big frustration. A kid with a year or two of intense small game hunting under his belt is pretty well indoctrinated and ready and eager for the bigger challenge of bigger game. The small game season is custom made for hunter introduction as well as learning about woodslore and animal habits and hunting skills. I am a big believer in that and have seen it all work first hand with my own kids and nephews, and now grand-kids. It all happens with no hassles, no boredom, and a wealth of good hunting mentoring to boot. No special season required for properly building hunting skills and dedication from the ground up. And no hassles from bored kids that have short attention spans. And the season lasts for a whole lot longer than just a couple of days.

We talk a lot about youth recruitment, and that is a big part of it all along with problems of getting kids into outdoor activities of all sorts. However, no one ever quotes stats on how fast adults are dropping out as well. I do know people who at one time were die-hard hunters that simply stopped hunting ...... permanently. And these are not old guys who physically couldn't do it anymore. these are guys in the 30's and 40's. You know what's really bad about losing middle aged people is that we are talking about the parents that would be the ones influencing their kids. So we not only lose them but their kids as well. So my question is, has anyone seen any stats about those that desert hunting after they have been in it for a while? And another question would be what are some of the reasons for adult hunters leaving the sport. I think the problem is a whole lot bigger than just the fact that we can't get kids interested anymore. It appears that we not only have to get kids involved with hunting, but also have to worry about figuring out how to keep them there too. I wonder if the DEC has even looked into this aspect of the problem?

It's a lot different world than it was when I taught my kids how to hunt and fish and enjoy what nature has to offer us. Yes hunters have perhaps been dropping the ball, but I have seen the development of "mandatory" overtime, and people being wired up with contact at the office even when they were home. I have seen massive changes in recreation that now takes in some pretty sedentary activities involving the computer and communications devices. I've seen huge areas go from rural farming communities to large tracts of suburban development. I have watched people dragging kids out to go camping only to have the kids sit all day in the apartment-like camper playing computer games or exercising their thumbs with texting and such. It's difficult to completely blame the parents when the entire American lifestyle has been turned upside down. Hunting and fishing and trapping simply aren't cool anymore. And that's a situation that's going on around the country. The whole culture is geared to fast paced, modernism. There is no surprise anymore that hunter numbers are diminishing. Even adult hunters are abandoning the sport and taking with them any opportunity or interest in passing on a culture of hunting.

Actually, any kids that are taking part in the youth deer hunting season are not really little kids. They are of the age where they know that they have to be quiet. But also, they are not infants that have to be coddled as far as temperatures are concerned, especially given the quality of modern cold-weather hunting gear. When my sons were of that age, we did all kinds of hunting together, not just deer hunting. They never complained about the cold or made any undue noise. They simply wanted to hunt, and they understood the basic principles of hunting from prior instruction. You know, it was a very, very, very , very, long time ago, but I still remember my first hunt with Dad. We were hunting for squirrels up behind the house, in fact I can pick out the very spot today. I already knew the routine and what was expected of me from discussions that took place before we even went out. There was no fidgeting, or whining about the cold. We just went about the business of sitting there waiting for the squirrels to appear. It was fun. No special season, just an afternoon on the hill hunting.