Doc

State land here in the southern zone has gotten a lot of bad press in terms of crowding and safety. Some of it is deserved and some of it is pretty much exaggerated. I hunt state land and just accept it as an additional handicap and occasional inconvenience, but nothing that will cause me to stop hunting. However, I was raised around hunting and guns and some occasional crowded conditions, and I think I have a bit more realistic view of it all as opposed to someone who is just thinking of taking up huting, or perhaps someone who has been in it for only a short time. Such people take some of those exaggerations quite a bit more seriously than I do, and I can see where they might decide to give up hunting or not even start in the first place if they believe the only land available is public land. It's too bad that they scare so easily, but I do understand. So yes, here is an example of having scarcity in the midst of plenty.

Getting back on track with your original post, my quick answer to your question is, "Yes". I have seen dramatic changes between last year and this. And that is using the same camera locations. However, you will notice a significant drop in doe photos as well. Here's the records: 2010 Cam Data: Total entries - 207 Bucks - 25 Does - 126 Unidentified gender - 34 Misc animals - 22 2011 Cam Data: Total entries - 128 Bucks - 0 Does - 74 Unidentified gender - 31 Misc animals - 23 It's pretty interesting, but only shows me that patterns have shifted. Maybe it's food sources, or maybe there has been some outside influences from bikers or hikers or small game hunters. I am dealing primarily with state land, so I have a lot of influences that can change the patterns at will. I'm not too worried yet, but I do have to locate some active spots pretty soon....lol.

Hey good one. you get to use another of your lame filler phrases again. Good for you. I know you wouldn't have a whole lot to say without them, so I am happy for you.....lol. But really, when you get to the point where you are throwing out insults and don't even recognize them as such,I guess there's not a whole lot that I've got to say to you. You absolutely cannot reply to a comment about crossbows, and many other topics, without throwing some irrelevant, pointless, negative comment along with it. It's become your standard way of conducting yourself. It's just your sunny personality shining through ..... again. And I suppose there's not a lot that you can do about that.

Well first of all, you're a bit late with your promise not to throw insults around since that is exactly what my last post was in response to. You seem to have a real problem answering posts on crossbows and many other subject without your snide little insults accompanying them. I guess it's just a personality thing. Next, as to your confusion about my comment, you might want to look back and actually try to review what the conversation was really all about before you make your comments. The reply wasn't "all of a sudden", or didn't come out-of-blue as you would like to indicate. Let me save you the trouble and lay out a couple quotes from this thread for you that you must have missed or ignored: "And yet not of them can hold their own with the compounds on a 45 yd and under 3D competition." "When shooting the same courses as the compounds, they don't come close to keeping up on the average." So I made a comment showing that perhaps the remarks regarding the ineffectiveness of crossbows might be a bit exagerated and apparently are not shared by the bowseason hunters in Ohio. You might note that neither were relative to anything you were talking about, but for some reason you always seem to think that you are always the target of my replies. It really isn't always about you .... lol. But anyway, if you want to keep up this crap everytime I post a reply, knock your socks off. Whatever gets you through the day. On the other hand if you would like to discuss things in a more civil fashion for a change that would be a pleasant change.

I have seen a lot of places with their chickens running wild ..... usually right along the road. I often wondered how they survive the foxes, coyotes, mink and other chicken loving critters. The other thing I never figured out is just how you ever get any eggs fromany of these "free-range" chickens that have the run of the place. Seems like every morning would have to start off with an Easter egg hunt. And then if you found an egg, how would you know how old it was. I guess that's why we always kept ours in a chicken coop with a small, totally enclosed, chicken-wire fence.

So how many of those critters would it take for a meal? I had one last year that took over my driveway ..... I actually had to get out of my car and chase him off the driveway so I could get up to the house ..... lol. But I remember thinking that I would have to have a pile of them to make much of a meal for the two of us.

What would really be nice is if all parcels of state land had a small area reserved that was cleared and back-stopped and made for target practice. Also a standing rule that target practice anywhere else on the parcel was forbidden. That would give everyone a safe place to shoot, and keep someone from randomly walking through the woods shooting up the trees and perhaps hunters, hikers, and others trying to use the land.

So have you gotten a response back yet? it'll be interesting to see what the official DEC position is.

Yeah, if the air temp stays below 40 degrees, there is no problem. But in the early part of the season, it is not all that uncommon to get into some really gross high temperatures. When that has happened in the past, we have an old refrigerator (Salvation Army special ....lol) in the basement that will fit around a quartered up deer. There have been other times when I simply butcher it up immediately and forego all the hanging and aging stuff. I have never had that cause a problem or any noticeable change in the meat taste or texture.

Is there any kind of repellent or something like a thermocell that can control the mosquitos? I can't imagine hunting in a situation where the bugs were driving me nuts. To me, that is going to be a concern down here in the Southern Zone if the push the season back to October 1st. It's kind of hard to stay hidden from the deer when you are swinging and swatting at bugs .... lol.

I have gotten in the habit of hanging them by the hind legs only to make the butchering process easier. I have eaten venison hung both ways, and cannot detect any difference in flavor. My feeling is that whatever way you do it, it probably really doesn't make any noticeable difference. For what it is worth, when I have taken deer to a processor, they have a conveyor system that has the deer hanging with the head down. However, here again that is most likely for purposes of butchering convenience since the carcasses are not there long enough to achieve any kind of "aging" or anything.

More than half of the participants in Ohio's bow season are young or elderly???? I'm not sure I buy that. At any rate, the bowseason harvest numbers show a clear edge for crossbow harvests and have for quite a few years now. So whoever it is that's choosing to use them, they sure are doing a hell of a job with them. But anyway, thanks for the decent, well thought out response. I appreciate that rather than the combative responses that we usually get on this subject.

Here's another thought. It may just be my imagination, but it seems to me that "hunter dedication" (for lack of a better term), has taken some rather huge steps backward in recent years. So what do I mean by that? .... Well judging from activity during the season (or lack of it), it seems to me that a lot of the fewer number of hunters that we still have are really "part time hunters". It seems that after opening day (and actually half way through opening day), the activity dies right down to near silence. In fact, I think a significant number of the people out there hunt only a half-day and then head off to the gin-mills never to be seen for the rest of the season. After opening day, there are just enough guys out to keep the deer aware that there is a deer season going on, but the numbers of cars in state parking lots begin to make them look deserted. I remember when these same parking areas would be filled and have cars parked down both the shoulders of the road. Not any more. I think that almost all of the hunters go out for a half day or maybe a couple of days for the whole season. With that kind of decrease in enthusiasm, how long do you think it will be before these guys are missing from the hunting ranks completely. In other words, I am suspecting that we may have a huge loss of hunters in the near future. It may not just be about those that don't buy a license anymore but perhaps about an even bigger number that don't use the licenses that they buy. What happens when all these part-timers decide to save the time and money and just simply quit completely. This is all just guesswork on my part, and is based on some very un-scientific observations made over the years. But the change has been pretty obvious in recent years and it really is looking a bit troubling to me. What do you all think?

So what are the odds that they would decide to fight right in front of your trail-cam. That is some amazing luck!

Like I said, the list of reasons is very large, but do not belittle the part that animal rights groups have played in changing attitudes toward hunting. Those that are educating our youth and who also carry an anti-hunting agenda are getting their material from somewhere. It is also the animal rights freaks that are constantly keeping the issue of hunting before the public. I believe I have seen a definite change in attitude against hunting, and a general attitude of hunting being a low-brow activity that the social elite feel that we should have evolved past. These are the talking points of the animal rights activists, and more and more you hear them being parroted back to us by segments of the public that aren't even officially involved with these groups. In other words, those attitudes are slowly but surely becoming instituted into general public attitudes. The Bambi-ism message sticks, and it is the animal rights wackos that are peddaling that message. So let's not ignore these people even though their message seems ridiculous and uneducated to us, it sure is having it's effect when people decide whether hunting is something they want to be a part of or not. Kids don't feel that hunting, fishing and trapping are cool anymore? ..... That attitude has been sold to them by animal rights people and their converts.

As I understand it, the fox population has a disease cycle that effects their numbers. Distemper, rabies, mange, etc. So chances are pretty good that if you are seeing a bunch of them now, in a few years they will most likely return to being scarce.

20, 30 and 40. When the season starts, the 40 comes back off.

By the way, relative to flashlights, during gun season, I always have a lite going if I am walking in the dark or even close to being dark. However, during bow season, if I can navigate without a flashlight (moonlight, or some snow covered conditions), I will keep the light off. I use it strictly to keep myself from being shot during gun season, or falling over the edge of the ravine in bow season. ... lol.

Hey, a new handy phrase to clog up discussions! "Side step" ..... Good one! But the only side-stepping being done is by those that want to deflect the discussion into terminology. Would you care to take a crack at explaining why more people are chosing the crossbow in Ohio's bow season? If going a bit farther than simply dropping insults is a bit too much effort for you, that's fine. That's expected. But maybe you might try your hand at actually discussing something for a change.

OK ...... That'll be enough of that kind of talk! I know what you're saying. While we never think we have enough, there really is a whole lot of money around to buy distractions ..... for both kids and adults. By the way, I don't know whether I mentioned this or not, but diminishing youth hunters is not the only problem. We are losing adult hunters as well. At least that is what I see in my circle of aquaintances. And those are the people that would historically be the ones dragging in the kids. But just like the kids, adults have found other means of recreation and entertainment. The problem is that if you had a long-term crap in the economy, you might find a few more hunters here and there, but you also might find a whole lot more crime and such. The kids that you would like to coerce into hunting might be entertaining themselves by holding up the local 7-11..... . Land access: yes we have an abundance of hunting land, and no it may not be land that we would prefer to use. However, for introductory purposes, it probably is adequate. Yes, some of it can be a bit crowded, but there are ways around some of that such that you have a chance of avoiding the crowds. The state land that I hunt does have some additional pressures that I don't think most have. A dense system of mountain bike trails have been built and of course hoards of bikers and also hikers use it whenever the weather permits. The hill never does get a rest from constant pressure. But while it is no where near as good for hunting as it used to be, I still manage to blunder into a deer every once in a while.....lol. Let's put it this way ..... it hasn't driven me out of hunting yet. I guess I'm just hardcore.

You people keep droning away about what a piece of crap the crossbows are. It kind of makes you wonder what is wrong with the people of Ohio who are now seeing more crossbow users in their bowseason than vertical bows. Boy, are they ever messed up.

The list of contributors to the decline of hunting is pretty darn long and it's hard to point to any one thing and say that it is the "biggest problem". That is why no one has come up with a solution that will turn the decline around. There are a lot of suggestions that kind of pick around the corners of what we perceive as big problems, but there is nothing yet that will serve as the magic bullet and restore hunting to a universally accepted activity again. Frankly, I don't see anything as ever having any permanent impact on the future of hunting. It's a systemic thing that is a bit too huge to realistically be changed.

Sorry, but I am not that big a fan of winter that I am ready to wish away the fall. Rain is not my favorite thing, but at least I don't have to climb out there in sub-freezing temperatures and start to plow when there are other things I'd much rather be doing. Those who are looking at flooding as a result of rain are certainly going to view it all differently as I have done in other years when it was our turn with the flooding. But right now, the prospect of white-outs and snow-drifts and stuck cars is just not among those things that I am looking forward to.

Maybe that explains that occasional "gamey" taste in venison Chickens and pigs that you buy at the grocery store have never had any opportunity to eat anything but grain and grain products. We used to raise chickens, and they may have found an occasional worm out in the henhouse yard but 99.99% of their diet was mash, some oyster shells and water. No free range chickens at our place ..... lol. The pigs that we raised when I was a kid were fed commercial feed. One thing I am very sure of is that neither our pigs or our chickens went from one rotting roadkill to the next for their daily meals. However, I am sure that a crow or even a buzzard probably has processed all that filth to the point where there is no trace of it in their meat. So like I said, it is a mental barrier and not something that is based on chemistry. That's the nice thing about being a human in this country...... we are allowed to be a little picky about what we eat regardless of what it is or why.

It probably wouldn't make your day to put your hand up on the platform while coming in some morning, and feeling a big old fuzzy paw ...... lol.