Doc

I sure do hope you are wrong about people relying on internet forums to get all of their information. That is even worse than passing off bogus info here ..... lol. Forums are predominantly opinions, viewpoints and occasionally something that is based soley on a person's logic. Very rarely are there any forum discussions that actually involve undisputed documented sources. While forums may be good for instigating thought on various issues, it probably does not sit real high on my list of credible sources of info....lol. But if you are right and there are some who are taking forum comments as being gospel, that sounds like a much bigger problem to worry about than what people are saying on these forums.

I've been getting quite a few badly under-exposed daytime pictures up in this one section of woods up on the hill. It's an area we call the "dark woods" because that's exactly what it is. Its all old-growth hemlock trees that almost close out daylight. The problem is (I think) is that what sun there is that gets through creates these very bright blotches in the picture, and I think the camera is mis reading the actual light in the picture and is turning off the IR and trying to take a regular picture. That just isn't working out. There is no problem with night-time pictures. The IR comes into use and it takes great pictures. But a nice sunny daylight picture really confuses it. Last year I had my Bushnell Trophy set up there and never had a problem, but the Primos just doesn't seem to like that heavy lighting contrast. Anybody else ever have a problem like this? No problem at night though:

I guess it probably makes some sense that during what is normally considered the "off-hours" some deer (big and not so big) probably get booted out of their safe-havens by hunters who have gotten cold, bored, or just plain restless. One of the things that I used to count on before the advent of all this cold-weather gear, was the hunter movement that you could count on after an hour or two went by each day. Unfortunately with the space age clothing materials it seems like that isn't quite as big a factor as it used to be. I really miss those guys that use to drive for me during gun season ..... lol.

I often wonder how any of us really know anything about "most hunters". I'm trying to think of a single person who has the resources to be able to credibly say much of anything about "most hunters". Whenever I read or hear something negative about "most hunters" I guess I probably get a little defensive about such "broad-brush" statements because of the negative image some of that kind of stuff has on us all to anyone reading it. But anyway, I really don't understand how anyone could ever know what "most hunters" do, or think or how they act. Nothing to do with this thread, but just an observation about some of the replies.

Sitting in that hog, I have to admit that a part of me would have loved to own that thing. But that $10000 killed off any of those kinds of notions. And then too I have to wonder just how well it would handle the hills that I have. I know power would be no problem (it never is) but, even on my big Yamaha, I still feel the need to slide up toward the handlebars as far as possible. No such weight re-distribution possible with the mule. What you got is what you got. Probably would be a bit better on flat land or less aggressive hill-climbs, I don't know. I guess the other thing is that I seldom have a need for a 2nd passenger capability. The dump box would be useful down around the house. Maybe some day I'll win the lottery or something and can have both kinds of vehicles ..... lol.

I went to our local dealer the other day with my Brother-in-law so he could buy a helmet, and I got a look at some monster Kawasaki Mule. $10,000 price tag, and every kind of thing that you can stick on an ATV.The thing is so big that I would have to re-do all my trails just to make the thing fit along them. I'm really wondering how far these guys are going to go with these things....lol. First of all, I can't imagine paying $10,000 for a toy. If I'm going to spend that much, I'd better be making part of my income off of it or at least I'd better be able to ride it into town and back .....lol. The other thing is just the size of it. My gosh they have taken all the fun out of riding these things. I remember my first ATV was a Suzuki Quadrunner. It had all of 185 cc for an engine. The thing was a blast to ride. you could apply a little bit of body-english with it and make that thing do all kinds of fancy handling. Now the ATVs are just great big fat bloated pigs that you just sit on. Yup, some of that is a real good thing, especially for work vehicles. I use my big fat Yamaha for snow plowing, and the 4-wheel drive and monsterous weight is a good thing. But this piggy Kawasaki that I was looking at was so darn big, I would lose all the maneuverability that makes these vehicles such a good thing. Oh well, I guess for a lot of consumers, bigger is always better. I usually agree, but for me, on this style of vehicle, they are moving beyond anything that I will ever want.

The kind of a study that I was talking about was something that compares the cost of the current (or proposed) pheasant rearing and management program to the amount of revenue provided by pheasant hunters in terms of fees and taxable financial benefits to NYS businesses, etc. You know, the kinds of studies they always refer to when explaining some of the financial benefits to the state of any hunting programs. They may not have ever done such a study specifically for pheasant programs. However that link that you provided was a pretty interesting read. It just didn't quite get to the question I was asking. But they did show a significant decline in pheasant habitat in this state and why the pheasant rearing programs are getting harder to justify and more and more controversial.

No doubt about it, there certainly are a lot of self deluded people around ..... lol. I prefer the video evidence to somebody's undocumented boasting. Now, I have seen a video of a guy who was doing some pretty amazing 100 yard shots with a compound. I also have seen filmed trick shots by Howard hill with his longbow. I also attended a live show with Stacey Groscup shooting aspirins out of the air with his recurve and nailing all kinds of other flying targets out of the air. And we have all seen Byron Fergusen on TV doing things with bows that 99.99% of all archers can't do. So I know there are a few very talented archers. However, I suspect the shooting on the PSE crossbow video most likely had more to do with the equipment than any kind of Byron Fergusen type of talent.

Unfortunately, that rub is in the middle of a very big hill and he is pretty darn good about not leaving a track or anything. For me, rubs are exciting, but seldom have I ever had them lead me to any close encounters. It always seems that by the time hunting season rolls around, they have re-located to somewhere else. But it is always better to at least know there is a buck somewhere in the area. It makes the wait on stand a little more interesting.

And yet it is no real trick to find many of videos like the one that was posted here. Amazing isn't it?

http://huntingny.com/forums/topic/5169-first-rubs/

If you do succumb to the "gotta havits", just make sure you don't get rid of the old bow. It sounds like you already own a perfectly good deer killing machine, so it is always good to be able to go back in case something ugly happens with the new bow.

I wonder if anyone has ever done any kind of study to see just what the cost/income ratio really is regarding the put and take pheasant stocking program. Apparently the costs are significant enough that they were talking about shutting down some of the pheasant rearing facilities. So I wonder how the costs compare to the revenues generated. Just curious.

I have been around archery for a bunch of decades, and have even done a fair share of tournament shooting, but I have never been able to shoot 100 yards with the precision that that guy with the PSE crossbow did. In fact, I really don't know anyone who can even come close to shooting that far, that well. About the closest person I have ever known to shoot that well with a vertical bow would be Darrell Pace at 100 meters. I would lay a lot of credit for that kind of crossbow accuracy to the fact that he is able to bench rest his crossbow. Whether that is accomplished with shooting off a bench as he was doing, or off a bi-pod, or off a fallen log, or simply off your knee as in a kneeling or sitting stance, it is something that no vertical bow shooter will ever be able to do. And of course give some credit to the fact that he can use a rifle scope in conjunction with the rock-solid rest features. As far as the noise factor, the growing number of crossbow hunts being shown on TV are beginning to show that that is not really a very huge factor. If I had to point to one big drawback to a crossbow, it would be the awkwardness of walking around with a big heavy "T"-shaped weapon. That has to be a pain.

This stinking weather has put a crimp in my practice regimen. It's pretty sloppy out there. But maybe it's a good thing not to shoot too much. With my luck, i'll just break something....lol.

I think you're the only one who can make the decision for you. I tend to be in the camp that says if it ain't broke, don't fix it. But then I am known to be a little bit tight with my money. There's no doubt that technology has made progress in the last decade, but I have bows on my wall that date back to the 70's that have killed deer just as dead as the most teched-out version on the market today. I suspect that you are just getting an itch to spend some money and get something that you won't be kidded about ..... lol. I've certainly been there, and I have a wall full of thousands of dollars worth of bows, arrows and tackle to show for it. If you want it and have the extra money to spend ...... buy something and get that out of your system. However, just acknowledge that you are getting it because you just want it. I wouldn't spend a whole lot of time trying to justify it ..... just do it! Besides, the economy could use your help.

I'm not sure exactly what you are looking for, but a good book on deer biology and management is White-tailed Deer - Ecology and Management by the Wildlife Management Institute, published by Stackpole Books, Cameron & Kelker Streets, harrisburg, PA. It is starting to get a bit dated now as my copy is over 20 years old. There are probably a lot of books that are more up-to-date. However, this book has almost 1000 pages of biological and management studies and articles by some of the leading researchers that form a lot of the background data for modern day knowledge and management techniques. Some of this may fall under the category of what you called, "a biology sleeper book" I don't know. It all depends on where your interests lie. If you are near a good big library, you might want to go and take a look at it.

So, what's a pheasant? The last one that I've seen here in the valley was back in the late 60's and early 70's. We just simply don't have them anymore since most of the farms have started to grow over into woods.

Yeah, I think I'm one of those guys. I wouldn't know a 120" from a 200". All I know is whether it's a "big one" or not. I've never been too big on using numbers to judge the quality of a deer. They either impress me or they don't. Of course you won't hear me spouting off estimated live measurements either. Just not my thing.

I think we all rely on the pieces of information that we read and hear when conducting discussions on this forum. There probably is a lot of logic that is relied on too. So there always is some level of understanding. I really don't think we have a lot of trained whitetail biologists here (do we have any?), but we sure do have a whole lot of opinions. So we have to be a little careful about what kinds of standards we are going to demand of anyone who posts an opinion here or this place will get real quiet, real quick. The same thing is true when hunters discuss issues in other places, and even when those discussions take place with the DEC. I don't think any of that is hampering good management practices. I expect the managers (DEC) to apply what they have learned when they are accepting hunter input. That's part of their job too. However, I will say that what you are saying is quite true when hunters (or anyone) begin to bypass the DEC and try to force game management practices through legislators. That can have a negative effect on game management in a very big way. That absolutely is a way that uneducated people begin to make serious negative impacts on game management. However, simple casual talk among hunters or on forums is really quite harmless and not really anything to get very excited about whether it strictly represents educated credibility or not.

Lol..... even more interesting is how did a a thread about "Hunting Mature Deer" turn into a discussion on using recurves?

I have a couple of blocks of just plain old beeswax and it seems to do a very good job of conditioning strings and making them pretty much moisture-proof.

I remember going to work. I used to do that.

It really is a terrible thing for people living in that area. I get some flooding problems occasionally, but it is really minor compared to what has been going on in areas of the northeast this year. My flooding amounts to having my driveway sealed off for a few hours ata time and happens maybe once or twice a year. Yup, a real pain in the neck, but nothing that threatens our buildings or our lives. I hope the impact over there remains minimum from this 2nd round of rain.

Sounds like it's not a significant population problem unless you happen to hunt in an area where one of these outbreaks occurs. 100 cases in one town in only 2 weeks..... that sounds like a pretty big deal if I was trying to hunt there, especially if those 100 cases are clustered into a small area of that town.