Doc

How many guys did you have? What is the limit? That sure is a lot of goose dinners.

Yeah, these shows really do make hunting look like something super-easy. Makes people wonder what's wrong with you that you don't get your 12 point buck every year ..... lol. Geez dad, how long will it be until you finally get smart enough to do this like everybody else? I guess I never thought about how it might effect perspective future hunters when they learn that TV hunting is not the way it really is. It's kind of hard to teach patience and realism in the first place without these shows portraying hunting as something that is quick and easy. I think the other place where the ficticious expectations really is having a negative effect is on hunters that should know better. I think that a lot of the hunter drop-outs may just be because of unrealistic expectations based on TV programs. these shows have created a new standard of success that we never had years ago. I think experienced hunters really know better, but cannot help but be affected by seeing harvests on TV that make it look like some of the game-farm hunt results are the norm that they themselves should be expecting. It could be that hunters are now demanding more of themselves than is practical and perhaps getting more discouraged than they have a right to be.

Moose..... my favorite critter to hunt. And also makes the most interesting hunting stories with or without actually getting one. Do you have any pictures to post?

They are strictly for decoration, right? I mean, are there any functional reasons for arrow wraps?

I was thinking mechanicals also, but I didn't want to start everybody hitting me over the head with their favorite broadheads ..... lol.

I have to admit that I believe camo is way over-rated. But I do still use it. I also have a ghillie suit that truly makes me invisible, or as close to it as anything will make you. I can't use it for bo hunting because of interference issues, but I do use it for coyote hunting. Also on the rare event that I do any turkey hunting, it is excellent camo. However, I will say that back in the early days of my bowhunting, denim with a checkered flannel shirt used to get me just as close to deer as my camo does today. What the heck, Even with my gun season blaze orange on, I seldom get busted because I was seen. An unruly rogue breeze might get me (we seldom get one wind direction for very long down in the valley country) but I seldom am seen if I move at the right speed.

It all depends on which season it is. For bow season, I try to get on stand as close to daybreak as possible.... Maybe 15 minutes before it starts to get light. Opening day of gun season, I get on stand a lot earlier usually an hour before daylight. I have had a couple occasions where I got to my stand area a bit late and found someone else already in the area, too close for me to be comfortable. If I'm already there, I can warn them off with a flashlight and so far haven't really had anybody that refused to keep on moving. After opening day, it is mostly still-hunting so I get out when I can without any particular hurry. Usually that is around sunrise.

What has been amazing me lately on some of these shows is the terrible penetration that some of these guys are getting. I seem to recall that almost all the other programs of the past featured a lot of "pass-throughs". That's good. But on many of the shows that I have seen recently, it sure looked like they were only getting around 7 or 8 inches. Awful lot of arrow sticking out the near side. They always seem to get their deer, but frankly I would be real nervous with that little penetration and their sure wouldn't be a whole lot of celebrations until I actually had that critter laying at my feet. Anybody else noticing that?

I didn't plan on going this year. I was terribly disappointed last year, and talking to the vendors, it sounded like several were planning on not showing up for this year. I guess the cost of vendor sites was an issue. like I said before, someone who had never gone before would probably have a real good time. But for me, I have been going for decades and even participated, and I have seen it continue to shrink and those things that are left are nothing new for me. So until I hear that things are improving, I will keep that event scratched off my calendar. It's too bad because I do believe that it was a valuable recruitment tool for hunting, fishing and trapping. I'm not sure who is at fault for the slide in quality, but I have to believe that it may be the DEC. I would like to hear more about the event at Godfrey's Pond. I've never been to that one.

So, since bear baiting is not allowed, just how do you guys go specifically after bears? My understanding is that they have such a large range that trail-watching is useless. They are thinly scattered over such a large area that still-hunting isn't all that effective. And we don't exactly have the right kind of land for spot and stalk hunting. And in fact, my understanding is that most bears are taken almost accidently by deer hunters. So if a guy decides to go hunting for bears specifically, how would you all recommend he go about it in NYS?

Sad to hear of your encounter with the kind of scum that would steal like that. However I have come to expect the worst and really pay a lot of attention to where I put my cameras. It's too bad when you have to locate them with thieves in mind instead of being able to use the most reliable areas that will get you better pictures. But that's what I have to do. I keep everything on my own property and even then, I have to pay a lot of attention to concealment. It's just the way things are these days.

Yeah, it's probably a good idea to check with the DEC. They have all kinds of different rules depending on the classification of the land use. A little warning about horses, if you're counting on using them for packing a deer out. Not all horses will tolerate that sort of thing ..... lol. Years ago my Dad tried to drag a deer back home using the family horse. He wasn't having any part of getting anywhere near that thing. he wouldn't even come up to it. So that didn't work too good ...... Ha-ha. Obviously a whole lot of horses (probably most) have no problem with doing that sort of thing, but apparently there are some that won't do it.

All of the above situations could apply to any typical New York State dairy farm area.

Last time I tried, I had all these buzzards trying to take it away from me.

I had a Bushnell Trophy mounted on exactly the same tree last year and never had a problem. I moved the primos to another area and still had occasional under exposed pictures. Many of these blacked out pictures were taken around noon with sunlight coming through the trees (see the samples). I also had a series of two pictures on the same day only 2 minutes apart. One was exposed perfectly the next one was almost black. The people at Bass-Pro took one look at a sample picture and had no problem deciding it was a bad camera. By the way, I do have a Primos 60 that has absolutely no issues. That's why I had no problem buying another one in the first place. I guess you just occasionally get a lemon. So far I am happy with the Bushnell trophy that I traded in the Primos for. So now I have 1 Primos 60 and 2 Bushnells. All I need now are some good bucks to show up....lol.

I used to, but got tired of doing all the butchering and then finding that most of the best cuts of meat are laced with clots.

No, I was asking about what market these hogs are sold to. It wouldn't be for meat unless there is a market in restaurants for exotic species. I could see them being valuable for stocking the canned hunt outlets. But I'm just curious about why such game farms were ever established here in the first place.

Oh man! You have been busted. Was that video from a trail cam or a hand-held camera?

Very subtle changes have been happening for a few weeks, but now things are really starting to change. I always have very mixed feelings about this time of year. While there is no time of year that is better, I still have a lot of "summery" things that I want to do and continue doing. And also, fall is the gateway to unending winter (blizzards, icy roads, constant gray and wallowing around in slop and snow). But we do have all the hunting opportunities ready to open soon and I know those days of early bow season with the leaf color and sun .... it just doesn't get any better! And hey, who knows I might even get a deer while I am enjoying all that ..... lol.

Now that is a hunting camp! The only thing lacking is the huge wall tent with the stovepipe sticking out of the roof and a couple horses tied up to the trees and a few whiskered guys sitting around the campfire telling stories......lol. Oh, and a game pole with a few nice bucks hanging. Nice looking country!

I'm not sure they will ever get as dense as they are in the southern states. And perhaps they don't have to to become a severe ecological and economical problem. They are simply another invasive species that has the potential to cause havoc among local native species and the environment if ignored and allowed establish and to build in population density. That potential may be over-stated, or maybe not. I'm not a biologist, so I can only go by what the real biologists are saying. One thing is for sure if the DEC is right about the threat, undoing the problem may be a lot more impossible than trying to stop the threat before it develops. They don't belong here ..... I have no problem with trying to eradicate them. Also, I think some rather severe restrictions should be put on those that raise them here. Those restrictions should provide for very harsh penalties for those that allow them to escape. By the way, what is the purpose for anyone to be raising them in this state anyway? Is it to sell them to stock some of these canned-hunt game farms?

Care for another guess? ........ It might be because coyotes are furbearers and maybe looked at as a resource.

Cold fried (scrambled) egg sandwiches on toast ..... about 3 of them. And a thermos of coffee and sometimes a couple small cans of V-8 (spicey kind). That's my breakfast and lunch. I know.... it sounds kind of gaggy, but I like them.

I still watch a few too. Probably not as many as I used to, and maybe I don't enjoy them to the same extent as I used to. But I can honestly say that I do watch a few. I've been known to sit down and watch Jim Shocky when ever I catch his program. And I know I will catch heck for this, but I never missed a Tred Barta hunt back when he was still mobil. That was probably because he was so different from the cookie-cutter programs that represent all the other hunting programming.

Let me assure you that everything that I have been saying in this thread is not "my narrow, my way or nothing". It is not even properly labeled as "my way". At least it's not my way alone. There is nothing that I have said that isn't exactly what I was taught in my hunter safety training. It is the way that all those combined people who developed the national hunter safety program and materials agreed are the principles of ethical shots. I think you were taught that too. And now for some reason, you think you now know more than all that combined braintrust of the past and present. I am not the only one saying this stuff. Didn't you read the other responses? This is not just my way or nothing. It is an overwhelming single-minded opinion of the vast majority of hunters. For some reason you have decided to frame the discussion as being my one lone opinion that I am trying to force down someone's throat even though I have repeatedly talked about the fact that we have a whole nation of hunters being trained in opposition to what you are saying by some very thoughtful and knowledgeable people. So I am not pushing some opinion that I alone have made up. Now, as far as your filler material of favorite cliched phrases such as cherry picking and spinning and whatever else you use when you have no more ideas for debate, or can't come up with any reasonable counter points. I really don't take offense at them. I just find them becoming old, worn out, unimaginative, meaningless and generally simply reply-stuffers that have been used so often and carelessly that they have lost all meaning and credibility. I recognize when someone is filling in with BS, and it is usually those kinds of over-used comments that preface that process for you. As for your last point, I have to say that I have not made any assumptions about what happened after the film was shut off. It required no imagination or assuming to recognize that that hog was not even close to being dead when the video cut off. Paralyzed and in a lot of distress yes. Was it necessary? ..... I say no. I say it was lousy shot selection compounded by some shooting error. And quite often lousy shot selection does not allow for any shooting error and that's what makes it lousy shot selection. All that was there on the video. Nobody had to make any assumptions. I don't know how much more time elapsed before the animal was finally out of it's misery. It could have been immediately after the video ended or it could have gone on much longer than any of us might want to imagine. All I know is that what we did see illustrated the bad choices that promoted that fiasco. And chief among those bad choices was the decision to take a rump shot.