Doc

Maybe that explains that occasional "gamey" taste in venison Chickens and pigs that you buy at the grocery store have never had any opportunity to eat anything but grain and grain products. We used to raise chickens, and they may have found an occasional worm out in the henhouse yard but 99.99% of their diet was mash, some oyster shells and water. No free range chickens at our place ..... lol. The pigs that we raised when I was a kid were fed commercial feed. One thing I am very sure of is that neither our pigs or our chickens went from one rotting roadkill to the next for their daily meals. However, I am sure that a crow or even a buzzard probably has processed all that filth to the point where there is no trace of it in their meat. So like I said, it is a mental barrier and not something that is based on chemistry. That's the nice thing about being a human in this country...... we are allowed to be a little picky about what we eat regardless of what it is or why.

It probably wouldn't make your day to put your hand up on the platform while coming in some morning, and feeling a big old fuzzy paw ...... lol.

First of all, I do not believe that there is any age group that is unconcerned over the future of hunting, and that includes the old folks. Perhaps what is being mistaken for lack of concern is frustration that comes along with the realization that society has taken huge steps away from activities and interests of the past. There definitely is a level of frustration particularly from those of us who have witnessed the changes first hand, when attempts to involve young people in any outdoor activities are met with total disinterest and lack of enthusiasm toward anything to do with the outdoors. I'm not sure how many people are aware that there have been studies that show that hunting is not the only victim of this new techno-culture. Youth interest has diminished in fishing, trapping, camping, and hiking as well. Some may try to make it an age thing, but the reality is that it is a societal thing, and the older people are simply those who see that the most clearly because they have lived the evolution of attitudes. My take is that creating interest is a family process that requires fostering appreciation and engagement with all things of nature. That includes teaching a love of camping and hiking and a curiosity of our natural world. This was the process that I was raised under, and the process that I followed when raising my boys. All of our recreation and family activities revolved around the outdoors, and hunting, fishing and trapping were things that naturally came of all that. I don't recall having to do anything to promote hunting, fishing and trapping. It was all just an assumed thing that they all expected to become involved in simply because it was just another extension of the more basic outdoor indoctrination. My sons now have a more intense involvement with outdoor activities than even I did because of that life-long indoctrination. Also throughout their upbringing, they involved others with their infectious addiction to outdoor activities. And so my efforts to keep the outdoors as a central part of our family had a ripple effect that went well beyond my two sons. That is the sort of thing that makes the difference, and it is the lack of that kind of dedication to nature in families that has caused a decline in youth interest. It is not lack of opportunities, or a lack of organized efforts to get these kids involved. There is far more of that kind of activity going on right now than at anytime in history. We are all looking for something easy that will reverse the decline in outdoor interests, some single event or program that will magically turn kids into hunters and fishermen or trappers. But the fact is that there is no single easy item. It is a cultural shift that has to be reversed. Older people understand that and yes, there may be a heavy level of frustration and perhaps even a bit of exasparation as the realities become clearer. I honestly have no answers, and I have no thoughts as to how you reverse decades of cultural evolution. I am fairly certain that many people have a very unrealistic view as to how easy they might imagine the solution to be. I do know that trying to lay the blame other generations is a pretty useless non-productive exercise as well as a mis-informed point of view. The fact is that the only reason that hunting is surviving at all is because of some of these older folks who have taken the lead in youth camps and hunter safety training activities, and even just their own infectious enthusiasm toward the outdoor activities. The reality of it all is that there are some mighty cultural and societal forces working against us and they may be proving to be more than a match for any generation. And of course the one thing that we are finding out is that it is pretty darn hard for individuals outside the family to make up for years of inadequacy within the family.

You bet!! My flashlight is a must. I use it on the way in or out whenever it is dark. Also, after getting on stand, I use it to signal hunters that may be setting up a little too close, that I am there. And yes, they do shoot way before legal shooting hours. I hear it every year, and at times, it is so dark that it's really hard to believe that they can even see anything at all to shoot at. Doesn't seem to matter to them. I just hope that they can't talk themselves into believing that deer carry flashlights.....lol.

Generally, there are blocks of woods, swamps or other unused plots spotted around among the fields. Didn't you find that to be the case when you googled the area? Blaze orange is still optional, however most of the hunters that are not suicidal do use some B/O during gun season.....

I guess I assumed from the original post that the dogs were official police issued dogs trained for official police work. The mention of the guy being a trooper kind of led me to think in that direction. Anybody know that that is not the case?

Saw one today along the road eating some sloppy road-killed something. It was something that was beginning to liquify from rot. I doubt that I could really work up an appetite for one of them critters ...... lol. Kind of like eating buzzard! No logical reason, just simply a gut reaction to their diet. I feel exactly the same way about possums, racoons and other carrion eating critters........YUCK!

A horse??????

8N (Ontario County)

It's not the bears that you have to worry about ...... It's the mountain lions that'll get ya'. How about this ...... how about a growling, slobbering, coyote with rabies (shades of Cujo). I know what you guys are talking about. I've heard that occasional twig snap in the pitch dark on my way to stand, and it always causes just a little quicker pace after that...... lol. But if you let your imagination get too big of a hold of you, you will be waiting until full daylight before you start out. Where the heck was it that I saw a picture of a bear perched up in some guys treestand? Now there is something to think about next time you approach your stand ..... lol.

I would not be real surprised if we were to find out that it is illegal to remove tarsels from road killed deer without a permit for possession of the whole deer.

I think even the DEC understands the weak points of managing with such large areas, but it probably is a point of practicality. So the DMP system will always be simply a compromise as areas with small populations get thrown in with areas of large populations. There probably is no magic bullet capable of making any significant change in that regard as much as we might imagine that there is.

I'm not sure the Castro regime will let you in. Just kiddin'. I've been through the area a few times (good cheese there). That whole stretch looks real "deery". In fact it wasn't too far from there were I saw a road-killed bear (big one) a few years ago. I'll bet there has to be a few members that hunt down that way that can give you the scoop on the area.

I guess I don't know of any reason why they wouldn't thrive in NYS. Their Russian cousins do pretty well in Siberia and grow to amazing sizes. Our climate is pretty darn nice compared to Siberia ...... lol. At any rate, those with some pretty good biological credentials are panicked at the thought of them becoming established here. They just may be right.

Now that's a damn shame! It seems that I am hearing more on this forum about stolen items this year than ever before. Take a close look at whatever is on those SD cards. There just might be pictures of two legged critters there.

However, conditioning your deer to become camera-shy is no joke. They absolutely do become aware of the camera eventually. At least in some of the experiences I have had with cameras, they do. Possibly the scent on the camera, or from the visits might also be aggravating this awareness. But I always have the best luck getting pictures when I first put a camera out and then the frequency of pictures slowly diminishes. Somebody is catching on to something.

They may have some collected data by township, in fact I have copies of some of that town by town harvest data from the DEC for many of the years. However, whatever they learn about specific townships, they still allocate DMPs by WMU. So even though some particular town may show an over abundance of deer, the WMU allocation still relies on the average across the entire WMU which doesn't necessarily have to correlate. Even county figures do not effect DMP allocation.

Lol..... Probably not a crime that has to be proven "beyond a shadow of a doubt". In fact it probably does not even have to reach the level of "proof beyond reasonable doubt". In fact, just the ECO's word is probably adequate for the local J.P.

One thing has become obvious to me. Deer are aware of the camera whether it be conventional flash or infra red. Some are bothered by it and some are not. However, I have had very heavily traveled areas go from pictures every night to hardly any pictures at all, over time. I no longer use the cameras in places where I expect to be hunting, and simply use the cameras as a general look at what kind of herd is available in the area. It's just a curiosity kind of toy now instead of some attempted use as a hunting aid. So if you are finding that your deer are becoming camera shy, it probably is exactly what is happening.

Lol..... It's not like we have any choice anyway. The problem is that most hunters hunt a relatively small amount of acreage, and then for some reason, they project their observations onto their entire WMU and expect DMP allocations accordingly. In reality, I have seen a huge difference in conditions from one property to an adjacent property. What the DEC has to do is to take the harvest results from the whole WMU and apply their actions to every local part of that WMU. What that does is to make neither the hunters nor the DEC correct for every hunting property in that WMU. So if you think the DEC doesn't really have a clue about the situations exactly where you hunt ....... You're probably right. If you think you have the inside scoop on what is going on across your WMU you're probably wrong. If you ever expect to see all that change, you're probably wrong. Yes, we probably all have a laundry list of actions that we believe the DEC should take to fix deer management problems in NYS. Chances are pretty good that the items on that list are incorrect, unnecessary, or not in the realm of practicality given the financial realities of this state. Does that mean that we don't have a right to express those opinions?..... Not a bit. It is always interesting to hear what people would do to solve "world hunger" as long as we don't take those thoughts to seriously .... lol. Who knows, maybe some day we will accidentally stumble onto something that actually does make a difference.

We only had one bear in our area that I definitely knew about. He dragged our trash can up through the woods strewing trash all the way and bent the pipe that held up the bird feeder over and wrecked that. He/she came back a couple of nights in a row and raised havoc at a neighbors place. And then, poof ..... left and never came back. That was two years ago. What all that means is that first of all, that was the only bear encounter that we ever had, so nobody around here knows anything about bear hunting. Second, there has been no further bear sign around ..... no tracks, no scat, no sightings, no nothing. Third, It's kind ofobvious that these guys really do some traveling so patterning them doesn't sound real likely. So, without bait, it sounds like something that I will never have a chance to do locally even though we now have a season on them. I do think there are some situations that might work out. Like I related in another thread, I did see some bear activity down in PA at a corn field that looked like the bears had a regular thing going there, complete with well worn trails and everything. So bear hunting in farm country may have some potential if there is a good population of bears.

So what's your favorite recipe for them critters? Are they good eating? I'm getting a bit interested in this goose hunting stuff. Seems to me they are all over the place.

I do have a question about scent-loc suits. They cost a jillion dollars, so if you buy one, most likely you are going to wear it. Most likely you will even become dependant on it. So what happens in the early part of bow season when the daytime temperatures get kind of hot and even a bit oppressive. I actually remember an October bow hunt where I had to take off my shirt. The temp got up into the 80's and I was just plain cooking. So I guess on those particular days, you just simply would not wear it? I suppose in some of the more moderate cases you could carry it in in a pack and put it on after you have cooled down a bit. I have no idea how hot those suits actually are.

I remember seeing a corn field down in PA that had some significant crop damage from bears. It looked like they had been rolling around in there and mashed everything down flat into the mud. It was quite a big area too. One of the guys I was hunting with saw one of the bears, and there were some very distinct bear trails. If the season had been open at that time, that would have been a good place to actually do some trail-watching for bears. They definitely were using those trails often. So that question I asked on the bear hunting forum about how to hunt bears without bait would have been a real easy one to answer in that location....lol.

So what do you think ..... if you have 5 preference points do you get resubmitted for 5 times in the drawing until you get a permit or until you have run out of the 5 free draws? I'm still trying to figure out how they actually use these preference points in the drawing. Nobody has ever explained that. Has anyone ever seen that explained anywhere? And then, when it comes to Landowner applications, how in the heck do they factor that in there. Is it indeed a block of permits set aside and doled out on a first come-first serve basis. Or do they try to give every landowner a permit. Or do they try to play around with the odds in some way to give landowners an "X"-times better chance than the non-landowner. Is there anywhere where all that stuff is officially explained? Just curious in case the day ever comes that I am depending on preference points or something. It would be nice to understand the system.