NFA-ADK

http://www.hamiltonc...s/02142012_herd Apparently I am not the only one complaining about the deer population in Hamilton County. I know many on this site have said the deer population in the ADK was high but this confirms what I am seeing... I think It is funny how NYS wants more people to buy licences yet they are not willing to help the population that we hunt for or manage the land we pay for... I know you can not compair the entire ADK with one county but this area seems to have some of the largest tracks of land that is managed or should I say unmanaged by the DEC. Granted winter kill is hard in these area's and predation takes it's toll but it seems these area's with larger tracks of state land seem more deviod of wildlife. Shortening the season by one day I do not think will make a dif. and antler only restriction seems to have no affect accourding to the DEC. Logging is out as no one wants to allow NYS to control that. So far the season date changes seems to be the only thing that can be done by the DEC. Question is what can be done to help improve the habitat in these area's except hope for a mild winter? Or are we just to leave forever wild as forever empty of wild life... Again this is a topic for trying to improve habitat for all hunting and what can be done to improve it... Any Ideas??? Clear cutting, Controled burns, shortening the season, antler only restriction are some idea's. Clear cut and burns are not allowed and antler restrictions are said to be low impact. I feel the Antler restrictions would help yet the dec complains they will not be able to get population controled with this restriction in area's that need it... I say keep the bow season open for doe and allow archery clubs to take care of populations where needed. This would allow control of herds yet still restrict doe take in area's where populaton is low. Plain and simple if you take a kid hunting or fishing and get nothing and see nothing you will not keep them interested very long. By improving habitat and population you have a better chance of improving hunter retention... helping the hunter, the state and the DEC... What do you think would help?

Nice, thanks for sharing!!!

Next time do not call the cops, just make a bigger ditch... This is what people will do if he is convicted, to protect yourself from our gov... After protecting yourself from a threat... Police get very upset with anyone else who uses guns... Only they are allowed to fire a warning shot it's illegal for anyone else to do so. Typical example of how it is ok for me but not you... When was the last time a cop was arrested for firing a warning shot? This is just stupidity.

Nice w/400 fps this puts my bow to shame. Much more power...

Well after seeing how NYS does it's "statistics" and make us the safest state to hunt proves that Statistics can be made to show what you want by excluding certian accidents there by making stats match what you want. EX: NYS is NEVER going to say hunting is UNSAFE no matter how many people get shot. And they will prove it every year with bogus stats. Stats do not change the fact that a loaded fire arm of any kind is more dangerous that one that is not. Again many seem to want to just by pass this fact and have me show some BS stat from some state that is trying to PROVE it is safe... Well guese what every other state is trying to PROVE hunting is safe and I am sure they exclude certian "accidents" because they can figure out some loop hole to say "Well they were not hunting AT the time they were sitting on the log and the gun(or Xbow) dropped and accidently shot the guy so this was NOT a hunting accident... Makes hunting look safe and inviting to new hunters.

I have the stats everyone has been waiting for. 100% of the people shot with a unloaded weapon survived last year... Fact: No hunter was ever shot by a bow being discharged accidently by dropping it, or by forgetting to put the safety ON and hitting the trigger... Statistical fact, You can not get shot from a unloaded weapon... Fact a bow is unloaded untile at full draw. And for the one's who say a unloaded Xbow is safe, sure it is as safe as a bow with a arrow in it"not at full draw" or a unloaded gun. But most who hunt have the weapon loaded... A bow is never loaded untile it is pulled back. A Xbow just like a gun is always loaded once the bullet is in or the bolt and string are in place... Fact a weapon that you walk around with loaded is not as safe as a unloaded weapon making any weapon that has to be loaded to hunt with a more dangerous weapon to use FACT. I do not need statistics to back this information up, if you are not smart enought to realize these facts then so be it... Plain and simple a loaded weapon is more dangerous than one that is not... PS hard to find statistics on people shot with a unloaded bow anyone finding them can post here...

Now that was funny Skillet... LMAO Thanks I needed that.

U 2 WNYBuck Hunter...

Personaly I have no land close to hunt so I would purchase some land in the antler restriction area for personal use... Would be close and easy to manage the land.

You are going to manhandle that buck out of the woods this year!!! Nice keep it up!!! Great job!!!

I give up. You seem to think I hate cross bows, guese what I Might buying one. Just because I use a weapon does not change the fact that the bolt is locked into position. In so far as the dec, they do not care about the deer or the herd IMO. All they care about is culling the population, so guese what they will advocate anything that will get more money for the state and kill more deer. And yes I know this is availible for special people with permits, I have a friend who uses one arm to shoot so you are not telling me anything I dont know about using this... Guese what it is still illegal for anyone else without a permit to use. Might have something to do with it being LOCKED and Loaded... Again you all see me as attacking Xbows, Im sorry but this is not a bow IMO. THe DEC will classify it as one and you will all get to use it so all this argument is pointless. Again it is just a opinion but based on 2 factors of holding the bow and having it locked in place. You people need to figure out what a OPINION is. IMO = Im My Opinion. If I wanted to say a bow is safer than a Xbow because you have to pull back to be loaded is this a false statement, NO. It is just stating if you have a loaded weapon it is much more dangerous than one that is not, fact. Fact you can not get killed with a unloaded weapon, making any weapon that is not loaded while hunting a safer weapon no matter what it is. If we were all required to "load" our weapon only when ready to shoot we would be safer plain and simple. This information seems to go over most of your heads so be it. Again this is my opinion based on the FACT that just like a gun you only have to take off the safety to shoot. I do not need to post up facts for a opinion...

http://www.crossbowalternative.com/ New bows will now come with this option. Will have to be made legal if XBows are allowed...

Stiffling complete... Again because you can not disprove my facts you give up the conversation... Again disprove what is in red, otherwise it is just another gun... pull the trigger is all that is needed...

It appears I have stiffled you, what no rebutttle, I am shocked WNBuckHunter. DId you get your hands splapped? Saying be a nice boy? What about the fact that a XBow is like a gun in the repespect that it is always ready to FIRE just take off the safety. No one seems to want to address that issue. Wonder why. Again I think many here just want another tag and will go with anything that will provide that... The state says this is a bow fine, then how come it was not used during bow season? 1) A bow requires 2 hands to shoot and can not be locked into position. 2) A bow is never loaded untile pulled back to full draw... Making it a safer weapon IMO... Fact you can not walk around the woods all day with a loaded bow. 3) Those 2 facts make it much closer to a gun than a bow, I could care less what you think NYS classifies it as, it is not a bow... A bow has NO lock to hold the bolt into position. Bow - includes long (stick), compound, or recurve bow. Crossbow - shall consist of a bow, string, and either recurve or compound limbs, having a minimum width of 17 inches (tip of limbs, uncocked), mounted on a stock. The stock shall have a trigger with a working safety that holds the string and limbs under tension until released. It shall have a minimum overall length from the butt of the stock to the front of the limbs of 24 inches and be able to launch a minimum 14 inch arrow/bolt, not including the legal arrowhead. It shall have a draw weight of 100 to 200 pounds. Again if this is allowed then they will have to allow any bow with a lock on it and a whole new set of compounds will come out... If you want to address any of my concerns they are all in red, prove me wrong... They are all true and factual. Disprove my comments in red and I am ready to accept Xbow's. Not sure what fact you are refering to but just like the "facts" the dec made up this year about NY being the safest state. You can make statistics into facts and exclude what you do not want to show so facts can be made to show what the state wants to show... Do not believe everything you read. Cause guese what NYS what NOT the safest state last year despite what the DEC wants to report. And yes If I had to I can disprove this fact by including what the dec claims is not hunting releated... Makes me wonder how many other states exclude certian injuries and fatalities during hunting to make it seem like hunting is safe. Again facts are made by people and can be made to show something if you exclude certian things, like someone getting shot during muzzloader and not counting it as a "hunting accident". Again disprove my points in red. Safety factors can be made to match what the state wants, I bet if the state was against hunting(never happen too much money loss) they would have more "facts" proving hunting is unsafe and would include ALL accidents releated to hunting... But if they did it would be one more reason for people to say hunting is DANGEROUS don't do it!!! So they exclude any possible fact that will deter or detract from the "sport"... Go ahead and show what ever facts you want to believe...

I like the green and think it is much more informative especialy to the general public... While the yellow is universal the green will stand out as differant and eye catching and will ensure they understand it's primary use. Public Hunting Grounds is more to the point where as the yellow looks more like a camping allowed sign with no ref to hunting. Just the way I see it at 12 am, might look dif in da morning.

Question: Where would you expect to find apple trees in the wilderness? EX: Should I be looking by lakes, river beds, swamps, high elevation, low elevation confier edges? Any help is greatly appreciated... PS:Sorry for posting twice, seems to be some sort of delay on the site...

Question: Where would you go in a wild forest to try and find wild apple trees. EX: Should I be lookin in swamps, river bed or lakes moutian peaks? I was able to find beachnuts and seem to find more on the higher sides of moutian tops. Still having problems finding oaks. Any information on locating Oaks, beachnuts, apple trees or any other natural forage for deer is appreciated. Thanks in advance for any help...

Can't believe im back but I am finished shooting my bow so... Watch the video (Thanks SplitG2.) We all know hunters who will or have made bad shots at long ranges even though they are experianced enough to know it is a bad choice. (A guy at my archery club with many years hunting bragged to me about a 65 yard kill with a traditional bow.) Not much we can do to change some people it is just thier way... It's thier nature... What makes you think someone with NO or very little hunting experiance is not going to do the same thing or worse. Again this is not about experience hunters wanting to use this it is about newcomers to hunting playing around with it... What I am trying to emphisize is that new hunters with this type of bow seem to be more apt to push the limits. Notice on all or most of the long distance shooting Be it XBow, Compound, Recurve or traditional they are very young that post on the internet... Does not always equate with being recless but as this video shows many yutes like to push the limits as we all do but they are less likely to take precautions... With experiance gained though practice knowledge and plain old work over years you apreciate your weapon and it's abilities, more over it's effectiveness which garners respect. Once the kid gets tossed around under the wave and held under water for a few minuts he garners much more respect when he sees a large set of riding waves come in... Othwise me telling him to repect the ocean is futile... Knowledge comes through experience... LOVE that last line SplitG2 and is my main point. "Not the equipement that scares me but the individual using the weapons!" OK so lets talk about the reason it is NOT considered a bow. IMO a crossbow is much closer to gun in the fact that, 1) Most have scopes making a level shot as easy as sight alignment (even open sights) and knowlege of bolt trajectory and distance. No scopes on hunting bows and you have to hold the bow in position to line up your X hairs wich requires both hands to get proper alignment while not torquing the bow and having proper form and follow through, not to mention the fact we can't hold it forever and have to eventually"let down"... Even using one hand is achievable with a Xbow. Point is you have to hold the bow perfect for a effective shot and can faulter if not perfect. Not so with a Xbow. 2) The fact that the bolt is LOCKED and ready makes it much closser to a fire arm in the fact that once the trigger is pulled the bolt is released. Any other bow while having a trigger is still not LOCKED. You have to HOLD it when ready to shoot and you have a much smaller window of shooting time. It is only loaded when you pull back the string, Xbow just like a gun is loaded and ready to go just take off safety just like a fire arm... 3) Factor 1 and 2 lead to this fact. With any bow you have 2 sights or no sights, point is you have to line up for your shot and are not loaded technicaly untile you pull back to full draw. Xbow is at full draw just like a bullet in a chamber and that is why they consider them the same...The fact that you can mess up a shot with any bow is not possible(In the same manner) with a Xbow or gun. This is refrencing tourquing with the hand holding the bow or having the string hit your arm or pulling down on the release, none of which is possible in a gun or cross bow. Both the Xbow and gun are LOADED and are not affected by the hands holding the weapon. IE you can not alter the trajectory from bad form like a bow. PS: This is not a reference to pulling a trigger or squezzing,both are achievable on any triggered weapon... You can not change the trajectory on a Xbow or gun by tourquing the forward handle or trigger mechanism, unless mabe it is really cheaply made and flexible which is not too standard on fire arms, or any good Xbow... Funny how last post I read was about people not wanting this for there own desires like not wanting some one hunting because they might take MY deer. Which I think is why many think I am opposed. I am concerned about safety despite any other perceptions. What about the people that just want another tag for thier own use, they could be percieved as just wanting to shoot another deer because they can. Makes me wonder if many just wants another tag for selfish purposes...Tag hogs!? IF the dec make XBow legal during archery season I bet you will start to see compound bow with string locks coming out soon... And the DEC will have to remove this from thier list of regulations. "It is illegal to take or hunt wildlife: with a bow equipped with any mechanical device which is attached to the bow (other than the bowstring) for drawing, holding or releasing the bowstring, except for a hunter with a disability who is in possession of a Modified Longbow Authorization (compound bows are legal). http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/28182.html Thats my story and I'm sticking to it! OK WNYBuck hunter my skin is thicker now with flack jacket ready, need to go get pop corn and soda. PS leave me alone for a few hours to read some other post, LOL...

I never said anything about cross bows being unsafe, if you understood what I was talking about, It has to do with new hunters being unsafe with them. You need to read more carefully. In so far as name calling apparently you forget what you posted... "Ok there skippy, if you want to play, Im game." Your quote... No my name is not skippy... Sorry you have to stup so low and I will not come down to your level. And for your information I do not need to kill any deer with my bow ever to prove to anyone that I have improved my skills. That is only for the hunter that say I killed X amount of deer or to prove to some hunting buddy your hunting knowledge and wisdom farce... Killing deer does not make you a good hunter. Again I am done with this post. Thanks for the good luck wish but I use the bow for scouting mainly and I have discovered I like shooting a bow... If I wanted to kill a deer with it I would have gone out to Sag Harbor and whacked one over the head with a bat, I mean shot it with my bow.

WNBuckHunter it's just my OPINION...No facts needed for that. Called a internet forum. And just because I do not kill a deer does not mean I did not sharpen the skills needed to take one... Im done when the name calling starts sorry... GG

I love how some of you think a X-bow will limit your distance. Granted it is not a gun and the bolts drop like lead, but... You think a newbie hunter is going to buy a slow bow? They will get the fastest longest distance shooting device availible. And they will try it out on long distance shots even though they shouldn't and that is a big concern with newbies... This is the bow they will purchase, not something that can't shoot over 50 yards... They will shoot over 50 yards with out regard IMO... 380FPS 350 fps-380fps States 410...These bolts do drop a lot compaired to a carbon arrow but they go just as far and much faster now a days... This is what new hunters will be shooting, not your 5 year old cross bow that can not be shot past 5o yards. Funny how the 1st video shows them shooting a long distance shot on the ground? What a shock they are shooting long distance with these X-Bows, I wonder why? Because that is how they plan on using it... If they see a deer laying down at that yardage, I would bet all my weapons they would shoot!!! Practice makes perfect, otherwise why would you consistanly shoot that far. Doubt you will see too many other bow shooters shooting the longest distance they possibly can, unless they have a cross bow... Again if you have 3 years hunting big game I say you should be able to use a cross bow during bow season. Otherwise I say let them use it during rifle season untile they have gained some experience with hunting, woodsmanship, and safety wich IMO happens over time...

And your last sentence is what I am talking about with new hunters, again this is a ref. to NEW hunters and the thinking that they are like a gun is my EXACT point... They are not... Yet new hunters think they can shoot a few rounds and go out hunting with this great new weapon... PS: 410 FPS on new cross bow's is pretty fast and will only get faster as more people purchase and use them... And that is what newbie hunters will use if they can afford it. What compound bow shoots that fast? NONE: 340 is about max right now as far as I know...

1) That referance is to new hunters going out and purchasing a crossbow for thier 1st weapon and hunting thier 1st year. May be you should reread my post... If you think they have more experiance and are safer than me OK... That was not a referance to experenced hunters at all... And has nothing to do with HOW I hunt. "Sorry but I am against using cross bow for all seasons due to safety and new hunters lack of experience and knowledge of weapons." This was in the 2nd pharagraph... 2)I am sorry you have never seen a Yote hunter wearing BO, but some do... Might have been hunting for Bear I am not sure as I was trying to escape the area... DId not stop and ask as they were firing too many rounds and I had feared for my life... 3) Not sure where I said a cross bow hunter will not get enjoyment out of a close hunting encounter, could you point that out. 4) I am sorry you feel I THINK I am above anyone, I do not care how anyone hunts as long as it is legal, ethical, and safe, if that puts me above them in your oppinion so be it. Sorry you feel that way... My point is this: Young kids are going to try the newest equipment. If cross bow's are allowed during bow season, IMO more kids or people with little hunting and woodsmanship skills will enter the woods with less help from experianced hunters due to the fact that less use a bow in general. If the seasons stayed the same people would be more inclined to try and use a bow for additional time in the woods. 5) How about if you have 3 or more years of experence hunting big game, then you are legally allowed to use a cross bow? (during bow season) THAT would make me feel much safer... And would make me all for Cross bows... JMO Again this is not about allowing, that is all ready done, this is about safety. PS: Who ever said I had taken a deer at close range with archery??? News to me... Do you have pics for me? I would love to have them... :-)

So they do like meat!!! lol They have lost it... Any vegan I have meet where a far cry from healthy, they look pale and frail to me and I have heard veganism does the opposite for sex drive. Nice try PETA... Apparently it affects your judgment because this ad was a bad call... OK now I want a ham, turkey and cheeze sandwich...

I am with you Chevy. I am sorry but I do not want cross bow's when I am out with a bow. IMO these hunters are the least experienced and the 1st to shoot which scares me... Due to lack of shooting knowledge which comes from practice, you do not need a lot of practice with a cross bow... I have enough problems with Yote hunters and early bear season during bow now you want to add additional hunters into the same time frame, No. Sorry but I am against this... Makes me wonder why the DEC has 2 season with 2 different hunters using the same area. No so fun when I am encircled by Bear and Yote hunters in BO while I am in Camo with a bow, but yea let's get more hunters into the area at the same time. So much for thinking about safety. OK I am going home to get my flack jacket for the replies to this post... Sorry but I am against using cross bow for all seasons due to safety and new hunters lack of experience and knowledge of weapons. Bow's(traditional, recurve or compound) require a lot more practice and knowledge to get good at causing the hunter to become a better shooter and IMO a better hunter who will identify his target and place his shot making him a more effective and SAFER hunter. If they keep it the same more will try shooting a bow to get extra time in the woods than would use a compound IMO. Otherwise the yutes will just use a cross bow and never experience the thrill, experience and knowledge of shooting a bow. Shooting a compound I have learned: 1)How and where to place my shot: due to a better understanding of deer anatomy 2)trajectory and elevation and windage ajustments and calculations 3)extream knowlege of my weapon: not just that the trigger works and the arrow goes straight. 4)A deeper understanding of my prey. Hunting with a bow has allowed me to hone my skills due to the effectiveness of my weapons range. I just feel going to the local store and buying a cross bow will elliminate much of what is learned by using a weapon that requires a lot of practice. And yes despite the fact that compounds are effective and do not require as much practice, you still have to practice a lot to be good at multiple shooting angles and feet position and elevation not to mention weathers affect on you arrow and bow. So I vote NO due to safety concerns and the fact that many new hunters will miss out on a world of experiance with a normal bow, be it compound traditional or recurve...