Doewhacker

I will post this and leave it alone.. buck take has dropped 30% in the AR areas since inacted. As far as Burts post, its kind of like a modernized version of the progression of a hunter correct?

"At the present time, DEC biologists see no specific management benefit associated with the antler restriction program and do not consider antler restrictions as necessary to improve herd condition. Deer populations throughout New York currently have healthy breeding patterns and adult sex ratios that ensure virtually all does are bred, conditions that indicate our deer herd is in good condition. DEC believes that interest in antler restrictions is primarily an issue of hunter preference, and it is clear that hunters are divided. There is no biological urgency to implement a mandatory antler restriction program in the proposed deer management units, and hunters who wish to adopt an antler restriction policy or practice may already do so on a voluntary basis." TheHunter... read the above again, your slim majority is fading into the back ground, enjoy your days of AR for the are coming to an end.

It brings new meaning to the term "Hunting bear"...

Right, you argued your way back to the fact that it is a social issue. I do not care what you shoot, 1.5--2.5 makes no matter to me.. any one know the weight difference between 1.5 and 2.5?

Sounds like the heavy cream I get from the other dairy, it makes the best cheese sauce for mac n cheese but damn if it doesn't come out of the jug like sludge...

We get pasturized but some dairys do offer Raw milk.

This is for those wondering where all of these numbers are from. http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/hdruar08.pdf Its not as rosie a picture as some would paint it.

yea well I have a problem with the dog that guy uses..its not the same as mine so its no good hahahaha

"Indeed, more than one-half (52.1%) consistently believed (over all the years for which we had data) that the pilot program should be continued..." This is only the WMU's that have AR's. I didn't just pull these numbers out of a dead deer's ass. "Wow, maybe you having problems" slow down you are missing key strokes..lol WNY, I agree, they do need a survey at POS, it would make arguments alot more concrete. ;D

Non-sense? it is all data from the DEC.

52% want it to continue..not 77% , again I am not skewing anything, maybe you are having problems interpeting the data I provided. Maybe your canvasing of the guys you know isn't accurate? nah thats right the 29 guys you know represent the whole area.

I agree but when does science go out the window and opinions take over.

Really...52% is a slim majority, and I don't skew anything by mixing in data from a sportsman group like you did.. nice try.

"Since inception of the pilot antler restrictions, about one-third of hunters in both pairs of WMUs believed their overall deer-hunting satisfaction had increased, and about one-third believed their overall hunting satisfaction had decreased " "Slightly less than one-half of hunters from both pairs of WMUs reported that they were satisfied with their buck-hunting experiences during the 2007 hunting season, and 37-44% from either set of WMUs reported being dissatisfied (Table . The percentage who reported being satisfied did not differ between pilot areas (X2 = 1.416, p = 0.234), nor did the percentage " "A majority of all respondents from 3C-3J reported that five of eight possible positive aspects of hunting (all related to antlered bucks) were "too low" for them to be satisfied " "However, majorities of hunters who were satisfied overall reported that the number of mature bucks they saw, and the naturalness of the mix of older to younger bucks were "too low" for them to be satisfied" "Most hunters’ expectations have not been met for changes in the number of older bucks or big racked bucks seen in WMUs 3C-3J (Table 15). Prior to the pilot program, DEC had informed hunters that their chances of shooting an antlered buck likely would decrease under antler restrictions, but that their chances of shooting an older, larger-antlered buck likely would increase. Hunters from 3C-3J reported that the changes they experienced in their chances to shoot an antlered buck in general and a large-antlered buck specifically both were lower than expected. Very few hunters from 3C-3J indicated that their expectations had been exceeded for any of the six variables we examined" "Indeed, more than one-half (52.1%) consistently believed (over all the years for which we had data) that the pilot program should be continued..." "Two indirect indicators raise questions about the success of the pilot program. First, hunters in 3C-3J observed fewer bucks with smaller antlers per day of hunting than hunters in the broader area. Second, hunters in both pairs of pilot WMUs perceived a buck age ratio with fewer larger-antlered bucks than did hunters throughout the southeastern region."

There's more than 283 hunters in these WMU's right? All of these numbers and surveys are based on 283 people that took the time to respond, these 4 units are heavily hunted and only 62% of the 456 responded. Thats probaly less than the amount of members of one sportsmens club.

"Christ, I've posted nothing but FACT" Yea from your sportsman group, to bad none of your non-sense has any affect on the DEC and what they do. "Analysis of time series data also revealed that 28% consistently reported being satisfied all years and 26% reported being consistently dissatisfied. About 22% had decreasing levels of satisfaction over the 3 years whereas 12% had increasing levels" ">50% of hunters from both areas were satisfied with their overall deer-hunting experiences during the 2007 season (35% from both areas were dissatisfied)." "Response rates were 62% (283 of 456 deliverable) for WMUs 3C-3J and 42% (199 of 463 deliverable) for WMUs 3H-3K " " In 3C-3J, >40% noticed an increase in number of hunters complying with restrictions, and >40% noticed no change in: buck age ratio, deer sex ratio, number of older, mature bucks, total number of deer, and number of hunters in those WMUs. o In 3H-3K, >40% noticed an increase in: buck age ratio, number of antlered bucks of any age/size, and number of hunters complying with restrictions; >40% noticed no change in number of hunters in those WMUs. " "Despite substantial dissatisfaction and (as of yet) unmet expectations for desirable levels of many impacts in both pairs of pilot WMUs, most hunters still want antler restrictions to be continued."

Its still that way where I live, well almost, minus the bread man and door to door salesman and you got it. Biggame, I use Meadowbrook at one of my accounts in Albany, those guys are great too and they deliver all the way down to the city.

You AR guys do realize that DEC does not support any further AR zones and you may well see them go away right? And also you do realize AR's do not improve the herd right? Also there are more supporting it but how many, what is the margin? Do you have any facts or data to back your claims... so far you guys have posted zero FACTS but alot of opinions.

yup those insulated ones are good, I have a pair of those too. I acutually think they help to stop drafts because you can put a coat on over top, sealing in body heat.

We just started getting it delivered to the house last week and its awesome. Any one else have that luxary? We pay more than we would at the store but at least I know where it comes from (down the road) and also the money goes straight to the dairy not the middle man. On top of all that it is the best milk ever, probally cause it is so fresh. Life in the country is good!

I paid $29 for a pair of bibs this year at Wally world. That would leave you $71 for some thing else like milk.

Thats right Steve, you can have neighbors and have one set see lots of deer and the others none, it has alot to do with skill and experience. Doc.. did you find and read that article in Outdoor life yet? You pretty much summed up the point of the authors.

Care to back up your opinion with data?

haha thats funny the same guys that love it on this thread love it on that one.. Again..you either love AR or Hate it, there is no in between.

"The bigger bucks are here, 8 and 8 + ptrs running around now thanks to AR. Spin it any way you want. Yeah, and the DEC is always right, so make sure you keep quoting them. LOL" So wait a minute are saying the same DEC that put AR's in place is wrong? Well if you have a degree or background in deer management or sceince then please by all means share with us your knowledge. I am not spining anything DEC is saying, that is why I am quoting them. These are their "Facts" not opinions, like yours that there are 8's running around every where. AR's do nothing but divide hunters..oh and I hunt a AR WMU.. did you notice I don't trumpet that fact around on every post. We have hunted 3J for 11 years now, we have never seen anything over a 6 there so if you ask my family they don't work. It has everything to do with the area, at another property in Schoharie County we have seen and taken some real nice bucks that are older than 2.5 years and there is just as much pressure there as 3J.