dbHunterNY

...and .1 percent right now is better than zero. don't know what the situation is around you, but I'm assuming it's bad. You've got two obvious options, complain as you are with a poor attitude or accept it and do something about it.

not true. they're getting caught. those who helped get this started have caught people and kept tabs on to outcome and if it was a reoccurrence.

equipment confiscation was talked about but this needs to be enough but not too much that it never gets enough support to be voted on.

can't expect others to parent their children well whether it seems like common sense or not so that should be encouraged but isn't a viable solution. this isn't more laws it's the partial rewriting of existing ones to make them better. it most definitely will deter not all but many poachers. right now the cost is minimal to them so they don't think twice. this will make them especially if they've got a youth with them. say you're a poacher that's got caught before. you take your kid out road hunting for a trophy deer head to cut off. well you find a nice one on someone else's place and shoot it. well you'd currently get caught and pay a fine of around $500. Now if you do that under this re-written law you'd pay $4,000 dollars and lose your hunting licenses for 5 years. Before there was no additional penalty for doing it again or with a youth and now there will be. I think anyone would be at least rethinking poaching a deer again and if you're saying no then I call BS. Trust me they'll start to care.

here around Albany it's "save the deer!" and then they hit one with their Mercedes or BMW and it turns into "kill them all!" When hunting Pine Bush Preserve I've been surprised at the acceptance of hunters. I've passed and greeted hikers on the way out or in and they're surprised to see me but I can hear them start going over reasons i probably should be there, after they've passed by. also I've had individuals pull up in the parking lot, initially thinking "oh boy here we go", and then to my surprise they tell me where they've seen the most tracks crossing hiking trails and wish me luck. some understand and others don't but reasons that go beyond are needs as hunters always help.

a deer eats between 1 - 1.5 ton of forage each year. most of a deer's diet is browse, not corn or your food plot. no consider many will get all bent in my area if they haven't seen at least 10 deer while in a morning or afternoon, and some expect even more. we'll assume maybe 2 are bucks if your lucky and so just to keep the herd stable and not growing you should shoot 2 of those deer that are doe at a minimum (25%). now say you feel there should be more and the population isn't out of control too much yet so none of those deer or there offspring die. a couple years down the road you'd have additional forage consumption that shouldn't have been happening. now make a conservative educated assumption half - third of fawns are bucks that eat will eventually eat more, half adult doe are having one fawn, and other half having twins. now you've got easily 14.5-15 ton of additional forage, per year, being consumed in your area near your little hunting heaven. that's double what the it should be, in just a couple years of being safe and "looking out for the deer". let's now put that 30 TON of forage into perspective.... - 180 square bales from a farmer's nearby alfalfa field (3 ton) - 228,000 morel mushrooms (1 ton) - 1.25 billion black locust seeds (2 ton) - 24,000 apples from your tree in your back yard and woods (and maybe a nearby orchard) (2 ton) - 3,000,000 oak acorns (10 ton) - 4,800 quarts of blackberries (2 ton) - 19.5 million kernels of corn (5 ton) ...ok I quit.... add another 5 ton of leafy green browse around your stand if it's there and we'll call the yearly feast complete. lol it adds up fast and it takes much longer to grow back habitat then it does to grow back the deer herd. I don't think deer are a plague but I do think we ARE a part of the ecosystem and should do our part. besides mother nature is much more cruel compared to a bullet or broadhead.

yes please do.... need this thing to take off. might not keep all of them honest but it will for many of them. especially after the first offense.

didn't realize it wasn't posted. should've posted the one we started sooner. I started a thread for that one. don't know about the other.... http://huntingny.com/forums/topic/27640-anti-poaching-legislation-for-ny/

http://www.qdma.com/news/qdma-supports-new-york-bills-to-increase-poaching-penalties fines increased for poaching from a measly $300 or so, up to around $3,000 depending on offense and quantity. also it's significantly higher if a poacher is caught doing the misdeeds with a youth present. have to raise our kids right, right?

i haven't heard of anyone leasing out land for hunting that isn't already leasing with others now. i'll let either of you know if i hear otherwise.

that's what i thought in that you have to have access in NYS. i think the evidence of an existing easement he brought up because even if one is said to be in writing, there's something about easement or ROW being abandoned and would no longer be just grandfathered in as part of any original title. i think that hardly ever happens though unless somewhere along the line it's bought by an adjacent land owner that has and uses a better means to access it.

yea it isn't always that simple either. for example: on one property there's an acre of woods cleared and fenced off with a cell tower on it. the cell tower company leases that acre of land, my father owns it, and they pay the taxes on it, as that separate acre of land is assessed for half a million by itself, last i knew.

that was not speculation based on my own pondering. it's just the way it works. you will always have more doe permits than you need, because otherwise those who are successful at filling them would be short changed and you'd be relying on everyone that gets one to be successful. so you're always going to have relatively too many. the point to drive home though is your last statement that you can take too many deer. if other factors that effect population size change year to year how can you expect to hammer the doe herd with the same effort and think that'll work. you can still determine an approximate and reasonable number of doe to harvest each year. usually a quarter of your adult doe is a very safe number to harvest, and you if not accustomed to taking more than a doe a season that number can be a little alarming at first.

even with trail cameras and everything else, I have no idea how someone would even remotely come up with numbers for anything based on the population of big bucks that are out there. if they do, I want to be their friend. i don't think that number is obtainable. i do agree with you that there is a correlation, in that a larger population of big bucks would most likely see more big bucks taken (or on record). I've always wondered why people still think antler restrictions are just used to produce trophy bucks. growing trophy bucks means letting them grow to 4.5+ years old where they have a better chance at reaching 90+% of their antler growth. Not every buck has the potential to grow into a huge trophy even if you let it live through maturity and others will top out (score wise) at slightly different ages. antler restrictions are used for entirely different reasons.

yea I'm not exactly sure. last I thought it was the power company that owned under the lines and you've got a right of use, but can't impede access or build structure or housing under it. it maybe the other way around. i'll have to check. I think nobody ever knows with certainty because it's most likely written up slightly different in each title/deed. Also types of easement laws kick-in due to land under lines being used for same purpose for 10 years or more. It always the power company doing whatever possible to keep the land owner happy, however when push comes to shove their lines take over any "ownership" you've got. my family owns a few properties with power lines going through them. also have to consider a tree on the boarder is jointly owned. if it's base is close but not within the boundary "under the lines" but grows out they need your permission to do anything more than trim around the lines because it's your tree. i'll maybe look into it this weekend for a better answer.

way back when I think the good old days where more attributed to fewer seasoned hunters maybe. as now seasoned experienced hunters are coming from the baby boomer generation as a base and my generation to add to that. technology has come a long way and now just about every body has an easier means to access property, whether it be it's been chopped up into smaller parcels or things like atv's to get farther back in more readily opposed to hiking it in. during the late 70's to early 80's. so I think the good old days is experienced because there was more for one person. I agree deer numbers are better since then.

yea this has some sense I can agree with... winter kill would've just been worse like Mike said. less deer for a given habitat tends to mean relatively healthier deer, enough to make them more productive. despite not being optimum health, a much larger less productive population in comparison can drop relatively the same amount of deer. where fawn and winter recruitment numbers don't make the two populations a wash is when you've got natural die-offs from winter or other natural hard hitting deer disasters. when they happen you've got massive effects with little recruitment with deer being less healthy to take on winter and not balanced enough to take full advantage of bouncing back population wise, versus the smaller and healtier population. the key is to scale back on harvest after these events despite a healthy herd. we've seen it here and Midwest has seen it with both wintering, EHD out breaks along, and simultaneous unrelenting harvest pressure. numbers can get too low such that it doesn't matter how healthy deer are, it just takes time to build them back.

super quiet.... I haven't been out. lol

it'll draw deer to an extent but won't hold deer. unless there's a high energy food source nearby, when push comes to shove the deer will choose something elsewhere.

no land locked property is sold without a right of way and i believe the utility company owns the land under the lines. the agreement is that you can still work and use the land pending it doesn't interfere with their accessing lines. you can access it under the power lines but yea there has to be a right of way somewhere going through someone's adjacent property. it should be in the deed or public record maybe.

should have nubs off the pedicels by now. I'm in 4C. should have majority dropping within the next week or two. a lot more bucks were passed in our area last season.

yea if you have 350 acres you're bound to have trespassers... we had one this past year say we don't understand and that he has to hunt there. my dad told him that "it's my land and i pay the taxes so sorry but you (the guy) didn't need to." you can make that 20 acres a deer haven. a couple small high yield food plots and the rest nice cover and browse. figure out access without chasing deer out of there and base any of your changes around that.

had reports deer are low in my immediate area and heard others that there's still the same amount. won't know until I get out there in august and start my routine.

congrats! jake is just as hard when in front of you to shoot as a longbeard. baby steps.

I completely agree with this and anyone who rides a bike would too I'd think. I currently don't own one but have plenty of experience. Many times it's the other person. However, I've seen some dips**t things done on a bike. a while back on a busy buffalo street I saw a guy WITH a helmet on a 600 GXR. as I pulled away from the light I watched his bike in a horizontal flat spin go skidding past my car on it's side. idiot was trying to pop and ride a wheelie and happily twisted more than enough. stopped, got out and asked if he was ok. he's was quickly hobbling along trying to retrieve his bike. also know a guy that was racing to catch up to someone. luckily wearing full leather, boots, gloves, and helmet, because he hit a deer crossing the highway and he was doing 140+mph. cut the deer in half, with each half in the ditch on either side, ripped the front fork tubes and wheel right out of the triple clamps, and basically totaled the rest of the bike. that was his second chance, as he lived when any other time he wouldn't have.