nyantler

Well you believe wrong... I haven't been in on many, if any, CWD conversations because it is not a big issue here in NY as far as I'm concerned. The fact that there are some here that don't have a hatred for coyotes does nothing to prove your position on coyotes. To hold a position that predator populations must be watched and kept in check is sensible... calling for the eradication of entire coyote populations like you propose is asinine and shouldn't be taken seriously... and has no place in an intelligent conversation about whether or not putting bounties on coyotes is a good or bad idea for controlling predator populations.

None of that was directed at you... sorry for the confusion. I also am not against a bounty if it actually helps with balanced coyote management... just don't understand those that would use it as a way to see that all coyotes are killed.

LOL... Now your just makin' stuff up... Show me where I ever said anything of the sort. Not only have I never said it.. I've never even heard that or read it anywhere. You gotta lay of the weed man... it's killin' your brain cells and causing you to hallucinate.

Why would you ruin the taste of the crown by adding coke!!!

As an interesting side note... I was checking on coyote fur prices in western NY and found that coyote pelts have sold at auction as recently as Jan. 17th for as much as $62.00. The average pelt selling for around $25... these are trapped coyotes probably void of bullet holes anywhere other than the head area. But, if we're talking about a $25 bounty as a means of attracting more coyote hunting, it seems that we already have a monetary incentive in place that hasn't had much affect on hunter numbers. Seems that the dollar amount would have to be much higher to attract more attention to those that are not already hunting coyotes. I'm sure there is a number that might spur more interest as a bounty paid out by the state, but would the state be able to absorb that cost... and would that hurt the private sector buyers?

It seems that predators sometimes do things that might be a bit out of character for their natural behaviors... not sure whether it's out of desperation from hunger, or just an uncontrollable urge based on their instinct to kill, or even just a flat out mistake that isn't realized until it's too late... certainly does make you wanna scratch your head sometimes. One thing for sure is that behavior in nature is never an absolute. It sure does make for some very interesting footage when caught on film.

What people do on their property IS their own business... they will have to suffer the consequences and live with whatever choices they make about how to manage their land. Promoting, in general, the eradication of coyotes based on misinformation and lack of knowledge about real coyote behavior is irresponsible. Claiming that coyotes have totally destroyed an entire habitat and all the wildlife in it anywhere in NY as fact is completely delusional, unfounded and should not be taken seriously. A position of controlling predator populations to maintain a balance in any habitat is common sense, that is not what is going on in your case.

Seeing how man is really the only means of effectively controlling coyote populations it only makes sense that hunting them is necessary... and making sure enough hunters get afield to help reduce populations is essential to maintaining a balance between predator and prey in any habitat. If the introduction of a bounty helps get to that balance that's a good thing and worth the "experiment". Some here would have us believe that the coyote has no purpose in the ecosystem and the only good answer is to eradicate them from all habitats by any means necessary... that approach is irresponsible not only to the animal, but to wildlife management in general. Promoting a bounty to help eradicate the coyote population, like some would have it, only furthers the promotion of foolish misinformation and untruth being passed around by many hunters.

I'd like to see all the evidence of coyotes decimating an entire 1000 acre piece of land in NY... just one 1000 acre piece devoid of any wildlife because of coyotes. That seems to be the motivation for a certain onslaught on coyotes. I know of one person in NY that has made that claim, but nothing concrete to back it up. Legend has it that after all the coyotes were killed, two years later the wildlife began to re-appear just in time for the re-appearance of the coyotes as well. I could be wrong.. I might have just seen it in a Disney movie. Yeah, I think I'm wrong on this... it seems a little too far fetched.

I would love to see how they determined harvest numbers with all the different factors involved this year... the biggest being hunter attitude. I know of many hunters that didn't hunt the first two weeks of the bow season in the doe only areas. I have to believe that statistics would have to take into consideration all the negative factors for deer harvest this year... weather, hunter attitude, actual deer reported, oh... and deer decimated by coyote infestation . This is a time when actual reported kills would give the best harvest information for future consideration of this kind of management plan. All the unknowns this year would make it a bear to come up with an accurate statistical formula... but when you are the ones creating the formula I suppose you can make things work out just the way you wanted them to for any agenda.

Seriously though.. like Phade says, if you raised her right... you probably have little to worry about.

Think of a month with her at home after you tell her she can't go... LOL

I would assume that if the coyote fear in PA is as bad as what we hear from NY hunters... motivation isn't really the problem. Coyote hunting is not easy. Maybe participation in coyote hunting has more to do with the effort that has to be put in to kill coyotes on a large scale... I'm not sure most hunters want to put in the hours a good coyote hunt might take, possibly under adverse weather conditions... not everyone can afford dogs to run them or can give up the time it takes to setup, call and wait for coyotes to show. The hunters that are extremely good at it are probably already out there doing it. A year round season for those that are already interested in hunting coyotes is probably a better answer. It's possible I guess that a bounty for those hunters might entice them to spend more time in the field doing what they already enjoy. But, whether or not it will be enough to solve the PA problem is still a guess at best.

My only question would be "How much more coyote hunting do they expect with the introduction of a bounty?"... It would certainly be a waste of tax payer money if it doesn't solve whatever problem it is they are trying to solve. I have been looking for coyote population numbers for PA and haven't come up with anything yet... you would think there would have been concerns long before now if the problem was big enough. I can't find anything on the subject that tells much.

I'm don't know what's going on with the PA coyotes, but coyotes in general are not known to be a threat to humans on any consistent basis. However, it's not hard to understand how things can get blown out of proportion based on misconceptions created due to the rampant hatred perpetuated by those that don't understand coyote behavior. Not sure how a bounty will quell that hatred or fear. Not sure it will do anything other than cost the tax payers money.

I like to do some outdoor rabbit hunting in the snow with the longbow and a blunt tip arrows this time of year. Success rate is a bit low shooting at running cottontails, but man it's so much fun. My buddy and I take turns stomping brush piles... prints on top of the snow make it relatively easy to find the rabbits. Hardly even notice the cold because we're having so much fun.

The issue here isn't really whether or not deer are on the menu for coyotes... that goes without saying... The issue is how much of an impact they have on overall populations of deer in general in natural habitats across the state. I'm sure there are exceptions in habitats where, lets say, humans have introduced penned food sources like, chickens, goats, sheep, fallow deer and the like that have not got the ability to escape coyote predation in a natural way... but are relatively easy prey for the coyotes... like sardines in a can. This would establish an easily obtained food source and put larger prey at the top of the menu for coyotes in that habitat. This is not necessarily a result of huge coyote populations, but rather the result of humans introducing an abundant, easily obtainable, food source. A problem created by humans not an over abundance of coyotes. These are situations that have little to do with the DEC and conservation and probably can't be kept in check with simple predator control methods like hunting regulations.

http://www.syracuse.com/outdoors/index.ssf/2015/01/suny_esf_prof_coyotes_are_everywhere_in_nys_but_overall_impact_on_deer_is_minima.html Here is an article about a recent coyote study done here in NY... Interesting read... I don't know much about the current coyote situation in PA. Population vs. deer and such... but in NY there still isn't sufficient evidence of a coyote population problem vs. deer that isn't already being handled by the current coyote hunting season. Whether a bounty would help with accurate coyote harvest numbers or entice more coyote hunting in PA is yet to be seen... Hard to find deer vs coyote population numbers for PA to know whether anything they might be doing would translate at all to anything that is happening here in NY. The coyote thing is becoming a hot issue... I'll bet we'll be seeing much more in the way of coyote vs. deer studies here in NY in the near future. It's about time hunters started learning the truth about coyote populations in NY. I still say that the almost panic like response to the coyote vs deer issue is more hunter driven than fact driven.

My all-time favorite rifle... wish I owned one... Great find!

I should have known better than try to have an intelligent conversation with you... I somehow got pulled in again. I've made my case... maybe someone else learned something... you have too much anger for some reason to learn much of anything. I'm done. Have a good day.

Resident coyotes are members of packs (family groups) and help defend their territory against other coyotes. Transient coyotes are solitary individuals that do not belong to a pack. They are commonly yearlings that have recently left their natal pack and sometimes old or sick coyotes that were forced to leave. Transients can join another pack if accepted by the alpha pair. Transient coyotes are not territorial and have a huge home range that spans many coyote pack territories. [/size] You seem to forget the posts on previous years harvests. The first year there were over 100 dogs taken on this block of land which borders drum, Maybe a couple miles. I believe just shy of 40 were taken of this 1000 acre chunk i have control of. The second year they were not hunted as hard yet still over 20 were taken of this chunk of land with many more on the outskirts. These numbers do not include all the ones taken by every other means that we used to rid the vermin. The next 2 years which were last and the year before coyotes were not even seen and very few heard here and there and those last 2 years we had our local population of deer and turkey back on the farm. This year, Way to many were seen,with some taken during deer season that i had a trapper in during deer season with the hounds coming in behind him. There is no doubt in my mind that we had 2-3 different family packs on this property at the same time before they were decimated the first couple years and by the looks of things last fall and the harvests from fall and this year so far there is/was a fair number back. It took them 2 years to come back on the property after they were decimated. I love how the books say you kill one and one moves back in. Trust me, That is not always the case, but you continue to read the books and i will see and deal with the real world. Back to the scheduled program! Thanks for posting from my page... it's exactly what I've been saying. Concentrate on the "huge home range" part and the word "transient" and you might start to understand better. Also pay attention to the part about the family unit only being as big as the habitat can sustain. All exactly what I've already explained. I'm not sure how you are getting anything from this that I already haven't explained, your hatred for coyotes must still be skewing your ability to understand. Lastly, when you decimate the coyote family and the rogues in the area... it only makes sense that it will take a while for you to notice the coyotes that are moving in to re-establish a new family unit... again, you can expect a never ending assault on coyotes... you haven't accomplished anything more than inviting a different family group into the habitat that will be back to full strength in a few years... just in time for the re-establishment of the wildlife that you imagined have been totally decimated from your thousand acres. Which only proves how nonsensical your approach really is and how little you know about what you're doing.

I'd hunt there just for the beauty of the landscape... deer or no deer. What a majestic hunting spot!

That's a good buck... good to know he's still on the hoof... will be nice to see what he looks like next year.

And in all this time it never occurred to you that the reason you were killing and trapping so many males was because you had already killed the alpha which invited more and more rogue males to the area to compete for the new position of alpha. Until a new alpha is established and the family unit secured again the males will continue to invade the area. But, a secure group can't happen because of your continued assault on all coyotes in the area... so prepare yourself for a life long, never ending, assault on the coyotes. Proof again that you know nothing about coyotes or their behavior... you have been your own worse enemy and created exactly the problem you thought you were solving. Your hatred and misunderstanding of coyotes has become your problem... not overpopulation. But, carry on... no reason for you to learn anything from years and years of coyote studies... you seem to have it all figured out... your land, your hatred. For the record... displaying more anger and irritation in your posts doesn't make your position sound any more intelligent than the book smart guy.

Okay.. enough with just humoring you... you do understand that the alpha male in any family group will not allow for another alpha on the same "piece of turf"... so there will only be one family on that turf... there may however be a few rogue males displaced from their place of birth that might challenge the alpha on occasion and pass through a territory, but there will not be more than one family... you not knowing that would explain your delusion about overpopulations of coyotes... I'm sure to you a population of 1 coyote might be considered too many for a piece of property... but by definition overpopulation is only when there is more than the habitat can sustain... and I am confident that there has been no evidence of that ever occurring with coyotes anywhere in NY State... nor has there ever been any documented cases of dogs decimating every living animal in a 1000 acre piece of land anywhere in NY... or running every animal clear out of any habitat in NY. Your hatred for coyotes has skewed you thinking and created your delusions, but you are entitled to that hatred and those delusions even if they aren't reality.