wolc123

It certainly is entertaining and a lot more fun than squirrel hunting out in the cold.

Here is a little Christmas present for you 4SW

It actually depends on the age of the deer and the hanging temperature. You are just about right on for a 1 year old deer at 40 degrees F. I usually try and kill older deer, at least for the first half of the seasons. It never hurts to let them go a little longer though, as long as the temperature is controlled.

Besides the biblical issue, another problem I see with scales, is that most of the weight of a fresh killed deer is made up of water. It would be interesting to see how much weight they loose when hanging over a week to ten days. That is how long it typically takes for the rigor mortis to break down, and for the venison to be ready for me to process. The chest girth method may give a more accurate volume measurement and may better predict the amount of packaged venison that will result, ready for the freezer. Even if your scale has accuracy that is traceable to NIST, and you have it recalibrated each year, it still might not give you as good of estimate of how much venison you will end up with than a cheap tape measure. I do see value in those chest girth tables, because they provide an easy way to get a rough estimate of how much venison is needed to finish out a season. That has a definite value in helping me decide when, where, and if to hunt. It is particularly nice to know that when there are a deer or two hanging in the garage.

That is the doe, but that blood spot on the rear is not a bullet wound. You are not the first one to think that. If you zoom in on the spot, you can see that the red is in the shape of a "c", and not a round hole. The Hornady sst passed thru the front of both shoulder blades making a mess out of her front end. She actually had less than the normal amount of fat to trim from the rear, leading me to believe that we may be in for another mild winter, despite predictions to the contrary in the Farmer's almanac. Also, you give me too much credit, I am not that good of a hunter. Only two harvests for me this year. Fortunately, last year the good Lord blessed me with (4) of my own, plus a couple gifts from friends. We went into this season with a good surplus in the freezer. He provided just enough to get us thru to next year this season. I did not even see a deer, hunting a lot over 4 days of the late ML season. I have never killed a single deer on my own. All of the credit for all of them goes to the Guy who shares my birthday in a couple more days. Merry Christmas to you and thank you for drawing more attention to these facts. As for me, I will stick with my tape measure, because "The Lord detests dishonest scales".

My time can be up to two times better spent processing arrow-killed bucks compared to gun-killed does, when it comes to product produced. My crossbow buck this year yielded close to the amount predicted by the PA "chest girth table". The boneless meat from him filled two large butchering pans, heaped well over the top, which hold 40 pounds level. (90 pounds would be a conservative estimate compared to the 100 pounds predicted). He had very little fat to trim and almost nothing lost to "wound damage". The fat doe, on the other hand, which I put a 12 gauge slug thru the front shoulders, had a lot of fat to trim from the rear, and almost everything from the shoulders forward resembled cranberry sauce from wound damage. She only filled one pan level with the top. That made just 40 pounds, where the predicted yield was 60 pounds for her chest girth. Each deer took about the same amount of time to process, with the extra grinding time for the buck about equaling the extra trimming time for the doe.

Your daughter's must have been heavy to break that cargo carrier off the back of your vehicle.

I am thankful that someone posted that chest-girth table from PA on this site so I don't have to mess around with a scale. Maybe you could use your new scale and a measuring tape to see if that table is close for NY deer next season.

Are you certain that your nipple was not plugged ? It don't matter what kind of powder you use, if there is not an open path for the spark to get thru to it. Maybe it was almost plugged on that first hang-fire, and plugged up solid on the later misfire. If it turns out that it was plugged, then you probably still have a good bunch of 777 pellets. Like I said at the tail end of the initial post, I found mine plugged up solid one time when getting ready for a hunt. I had to drill it open before proceeding. It sounds like others have had similar issues. A sure fire way to see if that was the cause would be to remove the breech plug, hold it up to a light, and see if it shines thru.

You got my vote for the best post in this thread so far. For those who think NY is the worst state for deer hunting, my suggestion would be to think about a move. I will miss them though, because I have appreciated lots of those "sub-par" bucks that they have passed on, through their years of suffering. It is not all about me though, and they also deserve to be happy. I wish them the best in those greener pastures. I will gladly welcome them back, if they don't find enough of those big impressive racks that they are searching for. I will admit that I was almost on the AR bandwagon for a while. As soon as I discovered that it did nothing to improve hunter safety in PA, I was done with it for good. The time of the big antler craze has past. Meat is where it is at today.

Others have reported a few of them this year, and one regular had it happen twice. For those who had them, what powder were you using ? Were you using an in-line or side lock ? Were you using primers or number 11 caps for ignition ? I had a few issues with a sidelock and number 11 caps, with loose pyrodex. My in-line, with primers and loose pyrodex or 777 pellets has gone off every time, without delay, in any weather conditions. I always make sure not to keep bringing that gun in and out of the house in cold weather, I just lock it up in the unheated garage. I have also left the load in there for up to two weeks, just removing the primer. After the season, I remove unused loads by pulling the breech plug and pushing the sabot and pellets out with the ramrod. I keep those "used" powder pellets, as well as a few extras that I carry in my pack while hunting, seperate and only use them on the target range (they have always worked there). When my current supply of 777 pellets is exhausted, I will probably change to blackhorn 209 powder but I am wondering what may be causing folks to have trouble. One issue I did have with my inline was the "stainless" breech plug closing up tight with corrosion one time after about 6-months in the safe. I had to use a small carbide drill to clean it out. Fortunately, I always check to make sure that is clear before hunting. That only requires pointing the unloaded gun at a light and making sure you can see thru the tiny hole from the back side. With my old side-lock I would fire off a few caps and make sure it would blow some leafs around with the muzzle prior to loading. I never waste primers if I can see the breech plug is clear on my inline. They have ignited the main charge for me every time, so why waste them ?

2-1/2 year olds are my favorite antlered bucks to target. They offer the best compromise of quality and quantity venison. Based on chest girth and scull size, I think the buck I killed with my crossbow this season was 3-1/2, but he still tastes pretty good. So far we have only eaten the tenderloins and a few pounds of grind. His backstraps were big, but we have not tried them yet. I have not eaten much that was older than 3-1/2, but I suspect that most free range bucks in NY reach their peak body size by 3-1/2, so why bother ? The only significant difference I note in venison is that 1/2 year olds are way more tender than than older deer. "yearling" means 1 year old which are not available to hunt during legal season, just so you get your terminoligy straight. I don't know if you mean 1/2 year olds or 1-1/2's when you use that term, so please clarify. I hold off for 2-1/2 year old or older bucks with those two "antlered" tags until about the mid point of the respective seasons, at which time I switch to "brown-down". I know you trophy guys detest us meat guys but I really appreciate all those "sub-par" bucks you guys pass on. Some years they might be all that saves my family from "store-bought" chicken. Thanks again for your continued support. PM me if you want to trade a pack of 6-1/2 year backstrap for a 1/2 month roast.

I have killed a fair number of buck fawns in the past but have yet to kill a doe fawn. My practice of targeting antlerless deer in order of body size usually results in the escape of "little sister", when a family group gets in range. I still have a few bb buck roasts in the freezer from last season if you want to stop by for a fine meal from that "fatted calf". No luck with any this year though.

If it was me, that deer would have been recovered in under an hour just like all the rest that I have shot at over the last 13 years have been. Also, I would never use a bow when ML or crossbow is legal. I ain't in this sport for the challenge, it is all about the meat for me. There is no good reason for me not to use the most effective, legal weapon at my disposal to get the job done. That means a scoped, inline ML during the late season.

Getting out of the wind, and/or doing it only on calm days makes it a lot better. A jigging rapala with a minnow head on the center hook works great for bass. On public waters, you will want to check the reg's to see if they are legal to target where you are. On private ponds, that is not an issue. That said, warm-water fish like bass, pike, walleye, and perch are not all that fun thru the ice. They loose most of their strength in the cold. If you can find water with trout in it, they seem to get even stronger. A big laker will really pull thru the ice. The minnow tipped jigging rapala works good for them also. Again, check the local regs for what you can target and when on public waters. I also like the Polar tip-ups, baited with a live minnow for warm-water species, but I do a lot better on trout with a hand line and a minnow head tipped jigging rapala. If you use a whole minnow on it, it is less effective because it cuts down on the scent and reduces the action.

I do have enough room left in the freezer for some squirrels. Also, it is nice to mix things up a bit for the kids so they don't get sick of venison and fish (we try and live a subsistance lifestyle). There seemed to be lots of them around during deer season this year. Hopefully, I can bag a few over 5 days off from work on Christmas holiday this year, or the 3-day New year's stretch. Only if the weather cooperates though. It is so nice in the house by the woodstove, after so many days in the cold woods over late ML season.

It sounds like you are judging from the perspective of an antler worshiping trophy-hunter. I am very thankful that NY state does not condone such idolitry. As a pure meat hunter, I could not be much happier with the hunting in this fine state. The only little tweaks I would like to see would be full inclusion of the crossbow, a third buck tag for those who buy a gun, bow and ML licence, and a year round open season on coyotes. Keep up the good work NY state DEC !!

I had a similar experience with a new landowner this year, but the shoe was on the other foot. I was the tresspasser. For the last 5 or so years, a big brushy field at the back of my parents woods had been neglected and tied up for back-taxes. It was basically a free for all back there during hunting season, overrun with "aborigins" (that is my term for people I do not know). They often spilled over into my folks woods, even though it was posted. I did not know exactly where the property line was, but the new owner had it surveyed. It turned out that one of my stands was on his newly- purchased property, and another was about 5 feet from the line. He left stern notes on both of those stands, mid-way thru archery season, unpolitely asking that they be moved. I called the number on the notes, and met up with him on the last weekend of archery season. He explained his hard line, and said that he was prepared to take folks to court if they did not comply with his terms. I remained polite, and pointed out on the survey how my folks owned the woods on two sides of his new field. I moved the stands, as he requested, and agreed to call him before following up a wounded deer into his property. He loosened up and got sort of friendly after that. We talked about foodplotting and making blinds, etc. He shared trail cam pictures of some nice bucks, one of which I had harvested a few days prior. I showed him the big two-level blind that I had shot it from (a few hundred yards from the property line, near the center of my folks property). I passed a young buck this year, that was about 10 yards on his side of the line, from the stand I had just moved back. That resulted in gun season buck-tag soup for me this year, but I thought it was more important to maintain good relations with the new landowner. His hard-line approach has made the hunting in my folks woods better this season than it has ever been, and completely eliminated the "aborigins".

2018 will go down as a pretty good year for me. My primary goal of securing enough venison to last our family until next season was achieved, but with very little to spare. That part was a bit of a let down, as I like to share venison with extended family and friends. To give is always better than to receive. I am extremely thankful to the Good Lord for blessing me with two deer this year. He has always come thru for us in one way or another. Sometimes it is roadkills, and sometimes gifts from friends, but it was all on me this year. My high points of the season would be almost a tie between getting my first glimpse of the massive carcass of the the buck that I killed with my crossbow, piled up on the far side of my folk's woods. I said a quick prayer that I would find him, after taking the shot from my stand in the last minutes of daylight. That prayer was answered in less than 10 minutes, while there was still enough fading light to see the white hair on his upturned belly and throat. There was enough meat on him to make nearly half of our required yearly venison requirement, all by himself. There was not a lot of fat to trim on him and the broadhead cut clean and bloodied no meat. A close second, would be watching a nice sized doe fold up like a pheasant, as I pulled the trigger on my slug-gun when she trotted thru a shooting lane in the early afternoon of the third Sunday of gun season. I don't get too exited until the kill is confirmed. She never even twitched, for the minute or so that I kept the crosshairs on her carcass after flopping down, with another shot ready if necessary. My shot hit her slightly forward of where I intended, drilling thru the front of both shoulder blades at the base of the neck, but anchoring her quicker than just about any other that I have shot. The downside was that most of the meat from the front shoulders and neck was lost and what should have been 60 pounds of meat (per the PA chest girth chart) was just over 40. The reason I chambered another round quickly, and kept the crosshairs on that doe so long, was mainly due to what occurred on the low-point of the season for me this year. That would be opening day of gun season when a buddy wounded a young (4 or 6 point) buck that we were not able to recover. For the second year in a row, I gave this recently retired, decorated combat veteran my best stand on opening day. Last year he shot a tasty button buck from it. He does not like venison, and kept only a backstrap from it for his step-dad, letting our family keep the rest. This year I heard his shot about the same time as last year (about 5 minutes after legal sunrise). Soon my phone began to buzz, and he texted that he had a buck down, but that it had made it into a hedgerow (he had shot it at 90 yards in an open field). We spent about an hour of "prime-time" searching for that buck, to no avail. We marked the last blood. I went back after dark with "bloodglow", but only advanced the track about 50 yards before running out of juice. By that time there was very little blood. I hope that buck survives with what was likely a high back hit. I asked him why he did not shoot again after knocking the buck down as it crawled across the field. He gave two excuses: first, that he thought it would die and did not want to wreck additional meat. He also said that: in the military he was trained to shoot just once, as a second shot would allow the enemy to locate your firing position. Deer don't shoot back, and what should have been 50-60 pounds of meat in our freezer was lost. His hunting experience is very limited, and I am sure he learned a good lesson from this mistake: ie, next time use your finger on the trigger instead of the smartphone. Had I not taken that Sunday afternoon doe a few weeks later, this one would have bothered me a lot more. Another slight disappointment this season was my three northern zone hunts during crossbow/early ML, opening week of gun, and Thanksgiving weekend. Last year, I was able to score on a doe early up there and a buck late. No such luck this year, with the only sightings being a couple antlerless deer, well out of range of my crossbow, on the first day I hunted. Fortunately, that late buck last year provided enough surplus venison, to last into this year. Without that surplus, we would be hurting a bit today, after a dismal late ML season with no sightings. You can't score every time, or they would not call it hunting. The scenery up there helps make up for the lack of deer sightings. Next year, I am going to try and use vacation days for all three of the NZ crossbow season (the last 7 days are ML/crossbow up there), rather than just one day like this year. Even if the deer are lacking, the smallmouth bass fishing is always spectacular at that time.

^ I don't think she was talking about vegetables there.

And there is a water bucket handy

I think you are missing the latest trend, which is meat. The big antler fad is finally starting to wind down, and not a moment too soon. Look at Moog's "reminder buck" thread, or that new member, named after the greek goodess of the hunt, right here on this site for some up to the moment indications of that. The DEC missed their opportunity on the AR thing. That was so last year. Now it is the meat hunters who they should be looking out for.

How certain do you need to be of making a clean kill when you release an arrow or pull the trigger ? My number is 90 %. The Texas-Heart shot, to which you refer, I judged at about 95%. I was certain of the kill but had some doubts about the "clean" part. Fortunately The Man upstairs aligned that buck perfectly so that the guts came out as clean as a whistle. Hitting 3/4" diameter circle on a standing buck at 50 yards, with a scoped 30/06, from a rest, is a "chip" shot. That is true even if the bullet had to hit a few "deer chips" on the way up thru the heart and neck. That rifle consistently holds a 3/4" group at 100 yards from a rest.

I would like to see "three bucks" for those who purchase a bow, gun, and ML tag. "One buck" would be particularly bad for me. I prefer killing and butchering bucks rather than does because they are always faster to butcher, with less fat to trim, and they come with the added bonus of grab handles for dragging, and nice reminders of succesfull hunts in past years. We try to live a subsistance lifestyle. With the two buck limit, at least (2) of the (4) average-sized deer that it takes to feed our family each year have to be does (or button bucks), under the current restrictions. It would be nice if only one had to be. Fortunately, the heavy buck that I killed with my crossbow this year provided about 2x the normal amount of meat, so I only had to kill one doe to reach our meat quota. As far as the AR's go, definitely a no-go since no one can provide any evidence that links them to improved hunter safety. That would be the only reason I would give them any consideration. As a pure meat hunter, I really like that having a doe tag and a buck tag lets me go full brown-down and pull the trigger whenever I positively identify a safe shot at a DEER. WNYBH may call me a slob but I have killed every deer that I pulled the trigger on (and recovered them all within an hour) over the last 12 years. That don't sound too "sloppy" to me, and we have been eating very good thru that period. I do love the trophy hunters though and I really appreciate them passing all them tasty young bucks.

I was on the fence about mandatory AR's in NY state for a while, but now I am firmly against them. The main reason, that I thought they might be worth a try, is that I thought they might improve hunter safety. I thought they might decrease hunting accidents, by slowing hunters down and forcing them to be more certain of their target. An analysis of data from the neighboring state of PA, indicates that did not happen there. Hunting accidents had been in steady decline in PA for many years prior to the AR's, and actually increased slightly the year they went into effect. Since then, they have continued the steady decline. That is a clear indication that mandatory AR's did nothing to improve hunter safety. The second reason that I am now firmly against mandatory AR's, is they would prevent my killing of any deer on many seasons, including the recently ended gun season. I had a buck tag and multiple DMP's, but I could not positively identify the sex or the number of antler points on the only deer that offered me a good shot this year. I thought I saw a spike by the ears as I squeezed the trigger when it trotted thru a shooting lane, just 50 yards from my stand. I was pleasantly surprised to find that it was an antlerless doe, when I walked upon the carcass. I am glad that I can still chase after bucks (and does) during ML season with my gun tag. I had just a split second to make the decision to shoot that doe. I never would have taken that shot, had AR's been in place. I may or may not get another deer with my ML, but I do know for certain that it would have been a "tag soup" gun season for me if mandatory AR's had been in place. I suspect that would be the case for many others as well. Voluntary AR's is a great idea, that I have been practicing for many years (3 points on a side), but mandatory is a bad one, that I hope is never forced upon us.