wolc123

Does this mean I will be able to keep my guns?

I have this Friday off of work, but I was not really looking forward to crossbow hunting at home over the long weekend. My own family's venison supply is very good now, but my sister's family and some coworkers would like a little more. I still have (4) DMP tag's for around here ( zones 9F and 9A). While I am very thankful for my crossbow buck last Sunday, I keep having visions of a much larger one showing up this weekend at home and not being able to legally take him. The rut is certainly in full swing right now. In 35 years of hunting, I have never seen a larger buck after my tag was filled, but it just feels different this year. That is the main reason why I was not looking forward to hunting at home. I don't want to see them if I can't kill them. My father in law solved that problem for me an hour ago. He needs help this weekend moving a freezer up at his place in zone 6C. At first I thought ok, at least I can do a little bear hunting up there. Then I realized that I still have a valid buck tag for gun season, which is open up there now. I was up there on opening day a couple weeks ago but did not see anything that day. I did see lots of sign, and was able to take a doe a few days prior with my ML. I am also taking the family up there again for the long Thanksgiving weekend. That will give me (6) full hunting days up there, hopefully enough to get a crack at a big Adirondack buck or a bear. The buck will have to be real big, otherwise I am saving my tag for gun season down in the Southern zone. It is hard to imagine being much more exited for the weekend than I am now. Hopefully there will be some tracking snow. The scenery up there makes any deer worth about 10 times as much as they are at home, when it comes to making memories.

I have a couple two-story blinds that I made out of old construction-style truck caps and snowmoble trailers. I build a 3 foot high, 2x4 wood framed wall on both sides and the front of the trailer, sized to fit the cap. The cap sets on that wall, with the second deck built up on the ladder rack (also has a three sided, 3 foot high wall, but no top.) The front of the caps and solid wall faces the prevailing wind direction (south west). In rainy conditions, I hunt from the enclosed first floor, with the hinged side doors folded out. Those provide additional rain protection and the 3 foot walls provide perfect gun rests. There is padded, swivel office chairs on the first floor and plastic swivel chairs on the second floor. I shot my crossbow buck yesterday afternoon from the open upper deck of one in fine, warm, calm-weather conditions. I past years, I have taken several more deer from the the lower enclosed sections (mostly antlerless) during rough weather conditions including wind driven sleet and rain and heavy snow. I leave these out year round and they are very durable. They were also cheap as all the materials were free (I even garbage picked the office chairs). A few spray cans of cammo paint, and some hardware was my only expense. They are kind of fun to build and easy to move around. I just jack them and block them up level when I get them into position (long before hunting season).

The recruit is impressive at close range but not so much further out. I always want a pass thru and 50 yards appears to be about the limit for that. As far as crossbows go, it is very quiet and that helps eliminate string jump. Also, I have not yet fired it at an alert deer and I know that makes a huge difference as far as string jump is concerned. If and when they give us full inclusion, I will spring for something with a little more power, probably the Centerpoint sniper 370. That ought to be a legitimate 60 yard crossbow. I don't think string jump is a big issue beyone 40 yards because that is beyond a deer's "danger zone". The 59 yarder I shot a couple years ago certainly never flinched until after the bolt had pierced his heart.

I bought a Halo with angle compensation at Bass Pro last year. It works very good and I think was less than $200. When I am in any of my stands, as soon as it gets light enough I range various features all around. My crossbow has 3 dots which are for 20, 40, and 60 yards (I don't shoot past 50 anymore, due to poor penetration beyond that with my 300 fps entry-level setup). It is real nice to know exactly where your bolt will strike and the rangefinder makes that easy. Yesterday morning I unloaded my crossbow when I came up for lunch into a target bag at 20 yards using my 20 yard dot. The bolt stuck center on the bull. That afternoon a buck walked out of a corn plot and stood at a spot I had previously ranged at 20 yards. I was able to pick out a hair I wanted to hit and that is where the bolt struck. It was not a real easy "quartering to" angle, but thanks to that rangefinder, and the unloading shot I had taken a few hours prior, I was about 99 % certain on making the shot. The buck dropped dead within sight. Whenever I see a deer during a hunt, I note landmarks nearby and range them after the deer go away. Even though most have been well out of my crossbow range, I will know where to aim later if one shows up in the same spot during gun season. Besides hunting, the rangefinder is very handy on the target range. I used to measure distance from my rifle bench to the backstop with a tape measure and place wooden stakes at various ranges, out to 350 yards. The stakes were always a pain to mow around, and the tape measure was a pain to use alone. Now I just use the rangefinder to verify my distance and it is very repeatable and matches the tape measure. With the crossbow, I just move my target bag to various ranges behind my deck and verify the range with the rangefinder.

Was he quartering to you at the shot? The buck I shot at a 20 yard range with my Barnett recruit yesterday was quartering to me and he also up with a hole in his hind quarter thru the femoral, where the bolt exited. It entered just behind the front shoulder and passed diagonally thru his body, then buried about 2" deep into the ground behind him. I was real surprised to get that much penetration from this entry-level, 300 fps setup. I used a mechanical, o-ring type, 3 blade broadhead that cut a 2-1/2" diameter swath all the way thru. I only got 8" of penetration into the prior deer I shot at (two years ago) with this setup, but fortunately that took the bolt all the way thru his heart and he did not go far. The range on that one was 59 yards. The one yesterday hobbled off, dragging the damaged leg after the hit. I wondered why he was dragging a leg when I had aimed at his chest, not suspecting the exit wound. He walked out across an open field but only made it about 50 yards before falling down. I only had a few minutes before legal sunset, so I got down, loaded another bolt, and walked up to him immediately after he stopped moving. He was dead when I got there.

I think it is on full bore right now in WNY. I killed a busted up 8-point (only had 5 points left) yesterday afternoon that I could smell when he was about 70 yards up-wind. I almost hit a terrorized doe with my car as she bolted across the road on my way to work today. A friend there killed a 152" 9-point on Saturday that was in hot pursuit of a doe. This action was all in zone 9F.

It is hard to beat just tossing them whole into an iron frying pan on the stove, with a little olive oil, and searing them lightly, so they come out a bit on the rare side. It don't get much better than whitetail fillet mignon. We have our third set in the fridge right now this season and it will be time to cook them in a few more days. My youngest daughter really liked them that way. I give her the ends that are a little more "medium rare" and I eat the center sections. I would take those over beef fillets any day. Any spices you add just takes away from the excellent natural flavor. I might toss a pair of "oysters" in with these ones (couldn't on the last ones from does). If you try that, slit them with a knife first or they will explode in the pan.

Has anyone ever tried Bluestar trackem (bloodglow)? The problem with the dogs, as you are all seeing now, is that they get overwhelmed on weekends during archery season. If you had some bloodglow, you might be able to get out there tonight and find your deer. If you can't find it with that, you probably missed the vitals and the deer will recover ok. Enough bloodglow to track 4 deer costs $25 and can be bought on-line.

I have never seen a fawn with spots during hunting season. A friend did take an un-spotted doe-fawn on our farm many years ago that probably would have fit in the game pouch on my upland game jacket. I helped him butcher it and the meat quantity was pitiful (probably very tastey though). We used my mother's hand grinder, and my arm didn't even get tired.

I shoot when I am 90% sure of making a clean kill. I can keep my bolts within a half inch, from a rest at 20 yards with my crosbow so, yes 2" is a go for me. I have yet to have a "flyer" with this setup ($250 Barnett Recruit). I was a little surprised that it drove that bolt all the way thru the deer at that angle and a couple inches into the ground. A half blind person could have followed the blood trail. What do you look for on your shots? If you are shooting a vertical bow, I can understand your need for a larger kill zone. Crossbows, from a rest, are a lot more accurate (in my hands at least).

No, I am saying that I helped Him get that deer to deer heaven. He got the goal and it was just an assist for me. There is no way I could have killed that deer (or any other) on my own. The shot angle was tough on that one, but Jesus has a way of making them bolts strike right where they need to. One inch forward probably would have deflected off the shoulder and one inch farther back would have stuck behind the diaphram, catching nothing but gut. What weapon could he like more than a Cross-bow. So far he is 2 for 2 with me, putting that bolt exactly where it needed to be.

God took good care of us this afternoon (check out the crossbow harvest thread). Thanks to this thread (which I read right before going out), I remembered to give Him thanks first. Once again, without any shadow of a doubt, He played the main role in getting that buck to "deer heaven".

Sorry about the so-so photo. It was dark by the time I got this one hauled up to the house. My wife and daughter had multiple technical issues getting a photo. The story is pretty good though: I was hoping for a button buck this afternoon (or a 2-1/2 year plus). At 4:25 pm, a small 4 point came out of the brush and walked very slowly past my stand at a 25 yard range. He stopped, perfectly broadside and turned his head away, almost like he was daring me to shoot. I did not, and he calmly continued on his way, disappearing in some more thick brush. 10 minutes later, I noted a significantly larger deer come from the same spot where the other one first appeared. This one stayed off about 75 yards, and turned into a corn plot on the other side of my stand. I could clearly see 3 tines on one side, but not the brow tine, so I figured he might be an 8. His body was much larger and longer than the prior buck, and I started thinking "backstraps". I could hear him munching on corn as he walked thru the plot, and occasionally get a glimpse of a tine or two above the corn stalks. He stepped out of the plot, 20 yards from me in a "quartering to" position. I shot at 4:45 pm. My bolt entered his chest, mid-level and 4" forward of the diaphram. It exited the lower buttox on the opposite side (I have those details and measurements because I just finished skinning him and hanging the halfs in my "deer fridge"). He bounded off a few steps, then slowly walked across the open hay field. About 100 yards out he began to wobble, and fell onto his side. He started to get up, then fell down again, got his head up a little one more time, then stopped moving. It took him less 2 minutes to expire after taking the hit, but it seemed much longer than that. If I had a repeating gun, I surely would have shot him again from the stand. It was not quite 4:56 (legal sunset), so I climbed down, loaded another bolt, and slowly walked over to him, finding him down with eyes wide open and very dead. I thought he was a 2.5, but a little ground shrinkage reduced him to most likely a very mature, scrappy 1.5. Both brow tines were broken off as was one of the G whatevers on the opposite side, making him a 5 pointer for the tag. The butt-out 2 worked again as advertised but the golf ball / tractor skinning method not so much. I had to use the conventional method there. He is a little small for a euro, but it is so fast and easy with a powerwasher, that I will probably do one anyway. He definitely had a bigger body than my last crossbow buck a couple years ago, and a wider spread. I will have to wait for next year for the 2-1/2 year plus I was hoping for. This one was definitely full-rut. I could smell him clearly as he was approaching in the corn. I made sure to thak God for this one and once again my Bible played a key role in the kill. This time I remember the last verses I read prior: Hebrews Chapter 10, verses 12-14. I laid that Bible down 10 minutes before the first small buck showed up. I had packed very light on this hunt, but I had a feeling I would connect going in. I tried to keep it under a pound (thanks Buckmaster 7600 for the tip). Besides the large print Bible, I carried just a pen, my wallet and tags, a small pocket knife and my string/pulley for loading. It was so darn warm I even removed my camo jacket up in the stand and used it to cover an opening in the wall. The two young bucks did not seem to notice my checkered shirt.

My reaction has changed a lot over the 35 or so years, since killing my first one as a teenager. The first one for me was a button buck from a pair that came running down a steep hill that my uncle and I were climbing in Allegheny state park (we had a party antlerless permit, along with my dad). The family still talks about that 75 yard, full-run shot. Truth be told, I was probably aiming at the deer in front, when the follower got struck perfectly thru the front shoulders with a slug from my grandad's old Ithaca 16 ga pump. Intoxicated by the success, I pointed the gun at the other one, when it slammed on the brakes and stopped in front of us, but my uncle held me back (we only had one antlerless permit). I was looking for horns and if it had them, I would have gone for the double. I am pretty much a "pure-killer", meat-hunter if there ever was one, and it all started when I was a toddler when my granddad taught me how to fish. I always looked forward to the "fish-fry" afterwords, and to this day I consider "catch and release" to be just the senseless maiming of a fine food source. I do release the occasional big fish when I get them (see the fall smallmouth thread), but only because the small ones are better eating. That button buck sure tasted good, and I continue to hunt them to this day for that reason. My first bow-kill was also a button buck, as was my first late-ML season deer. I see deer and fish as food first, fun second. Antlers look cool, but don't do much else for me these days. Now I have 3 more hungry mouths to feed and I feel very blessed to have a wife and two daughters who like venison and fish as much as I do. It took me quite a few years (49) to connect the dots and realize that everything we need to be survive is put here for us by God, the creator. There is a verse in the Bible that say's He knows where every sparrow falls. That is the only book I have read (several times) that does not contain any BS. You had better believe that He knows where ever whitetail deer ends up. When I am able to assist Him in sending one to deer heaven (our family's food supply), the first thing I do now is give a silent prayer of thanks. When I look back over all of the deer I have killed thru the years, I can see clearly that the role I played was secondary. It is almost time for me to get back out there with the Cross-bow. A button buck, or small doe will provide us with just enough fresh venison to make it until next hunting season. Our Savior has taken very good care of us so far this year.

Federal "classic" 150 gr.

That is an interesting article. The part about the buck fawns hanging around after their mother is killed is spot on. I just saw it happen again this morning. The neighbor kid shot a big doe behind our place a couple weeks ago that had a buck fawn and a smaller doe fawn. The buck fawn passed twice by my stand this morning, but both times out of range. I will try again tomorrow, because they sure are good eating at that age (especially the livers).

I got a couple good looks at one of my "shooter" BB's this morning. First, he was at 151 yards at 9:25, standing broadside and munching on clover. The second look came at 9:40, when he crossed a cut hay field, at a range of 100 yards. I stayed out there until 11:45, hoping to get another look, inside of my effective 50 yard range, but it did not happen. The good news is that I know where he is bedded and I have three stands and blinds surrounding that 5 acre "sanctuary" area. None are in the right spot to get me a shot within range, if he keeps to his current travel paths. He will be in trouble after gun opens in a couple weeks if he keeps it up however. I am headed over to my folk's place this afternoon to try for a couple of the bigger boys they have been watching over there.

Over 35 years of bow-hunting, I had 4 bad hits on deer but never a miss and more clean kills than I can remember. I will never forget those bad hits and I have taken extremely strong measures to make sure they don't happen again. I am certain that one of those four survived, because a friend killed him with a gun a month later and the shoulder was all healed. Two of the others were also struck in the shoulder blade and most likely recovered also. The fourth, a spike buck, was hit too far back, and I am certain did not make it, but I never found him in many hours of searching. Strong measure #1: On the four years that I had a bad hit, I ended my season that year on the low note. I tried to learn from my mistake and do better the following year. I was not certain at the time of any of the bad hits, if the deer would survive and I did not feel that I deserved to kill (or try to kill) more than one deer in a given season. I certainly would not have taken that shot five minutes after the bad hit. Strong measure #2: I stopped using a grunt call or rattling to bring bucks into shooting range during archery season. When you do that, it causes them to go into a state of "high alert", and that is when "string-jump" becomes an issue. A deer at 18 yards, that is in high alert, can move more than a foot (usually straight down), between the time your arrow leaves your bow and the time it strikes. This is the likely cause of your first "high hit" although it was something else that put her in "high alert" (see next paragraph). Strong measure #3: I stopped hunting with a vertical bow after the crossbow became legal. The biggest advantage there is the elimination of the need to draw with a deer in close. That first doe you hit high probably caught a glimpse of your draw and went into "high alert". That made it easy for her to drop her vitals below your strike after she heard your bow release. She was tuned in and listening for a noise like that, A whitetail has an amazing reaction time, as you just found out the hard way. The second doe probably did not see your draw, so your overcompensation resulted in the low hit. The crossbow comes with a few disadvantages, the biggest one (hopefully temporary), is that it can only be used over the last two weeks (starting today). It is tougher to get off a second shot. You have to be aware of the limb position after release, and they can be front-heavy. The do have a couple other huge advantages however, the first being that they can and should be fired from a rest. Also, they can be used with telescopic sights that put the target and the sight in focus at the same time. If I was in your shoes, I would drive over to a store and pick up a good, reasonably priced entry level crossbow package (The Centerpoint sniper 370 and Barnett recruit come to mind). Spend an hour or so sighting it in and get back out there.

I am looking forward to getting out there all day tomorrow and Sunday afternoon. I would be real happy with a button buck or two on my DMP tags. Those can be processed right away, without aging and the meat is still very tender. (I can almost taste those young livers and tenderloins, pan-fried medium-rare in olive oil, right now as I type). The weather looks a little too warm next week to age an older deer by just hanging in my garage. The does and 1-1/2 year bucks are safe from me this weekend. If I can score on a 2-1/2 year or older buck, I will skin him right away, cut the carcass in half and hang in my garage "deer-fridge" for a week or more before processing. I am also looking forward to doing another European mount with the power washer. That is one thing the warm weather is nice for at this time of year. I would also like to try out my new "Butt-out 2" tool again (it worked as advertised on my NZ ML doe a couple weeks ago - insert, turn 1-1/2 times, then pull did the trick). Good luck to all the crossbow folks this weekend.

Not bad tractors and easy to find parts for. The hydraulics can be an issue. Those were early versions of Ford's "live" hydraulics and it took a few years for them to work the bugs out. The live hydraulics and pto make it a good bush-hog tractor compared to the earlier N's. Check for good oil pressure, compression, clutch and rear tires (new fronts are cheap). See if the hour meter works (less than 200 hours would be great).

This will be the third year I will not pick up a vertical bow. I was not able to practice with mine 3 years ago, due to some major surgery, and that was also the year they made the crossbow legal for the last 2 weeks. There is not much that bothers me more than wounding and not recovering a deer, and the crossbow greatly reduces my chances of doing that for 3 reasons: #1, don't have to draw with a deer in close. That virtually eliminates the need to shoot at alert deer which have caught a glimpse of the draw. "String jump" is only an issue when shooting at alert deer, and string jump caused all 4 of my bad hits over 35 years with a vertical bow. #2, Shooting from a rest. My accuracy with a gun is at least 4 times better from a rest (as determined by measured 3 shot group diameters) compared to offhand. The same thing holds true with my crossbow. Vertical bows are fired offhand. All of my stands and blinds now have good rests. #3, use of a telescopic sight. This almost lets me pick out an individual hair on the deer I shoot at, at ranges up to 50 yrds. "Aim small miss small". The human eye can only focus at one distance at a time, but the lenses on a good telescopic allow the crosshair (or aim-dot) to be in near perfect focus at the same time as the target. My last shot at a deer with a vertical bow was a clean kill, but it was a lot more due to Divine providence (I don't believe in luck) than my making a good shot. The buck must have caught a glimpse of my draw as he passed thru the hedgerow that my stand was in. When he stopped, 25 yards out, and quartering away, I released my arrow. He reared back and down, taking the arrow thru the neck and jugular, and dropped dead after a quick 30 yard dash. My only shot at a deer with a crossbow (two years ago), killed him clean with a shot thru the heart at 59 yards. He did not see me slowly move the crossbow in position on the rest for the shot, and never flinched when the bolt released, even though my crossbow is a bit louder than my vertical bow. I am definitely looking forward to getting out there with the crossbow on Saturday. Fortunately, our venison supply is in fair shape now thanks to a NZ, ML doe kill and another that a neighbor killed with his bow, and gave to us. That will let me be a little more selective. Button bucks will be my primary quarry with my antlerless tags (nothing is better eating), and 2-1/2 year and older bucks with my buck tag. The 1-1/2 year bucks and all the does will most likely get a pass from me on this weekend at least. Good luck this weekend to all the hunters no matter which weapon you choose. There are plenty of deer out there for all of us thanks to the non-winter we had last year.

I am glad to read that you found him Pap. He will make a fine euro mount for sure.

What we have here is a failure to communicate.

If Papist's buck is bleeding that much it should be an easy trail to follow in the dark with a product known as Bloodglow, Trackem, or Bluestar. I think Tinks may also make a silmilar product. It contains an active ingredient (luminol), developed for CSI usage, that when mixed with water (or windshield wiper fluid in freezing conditions) makes the hemoglobin in blood glow bright blue in the starlight. They say it works even better in rainy conditions (the extra water eliminates much of the "false positives"). $20 or so get's you enough for tracking 4 deer. They say it works on old trails (weeks old is no problem). At this point, the meat is surely lost if he died from the wound, but this product may help him get some closure and recover the rack. I bought some 2 years ago and am still waiting for a chance to use it. The (4) deer I have killed since getting it have all fallen dead in their tracks or within 50 yards. Has anyone here tried this stuff? If and when I do, I will be sure to post here on it's effectiveness (or lack thereof). I just picked up two more DMP's today, in the second drawing, and I plan to start hunting again on Saturday when crossbow opens up. On one hand, I hope I never need the stuff, but on the other, I really wonder if it does what they say it does. One of the more prolific hunters, on the old QDMA site, claimed that his recovery percentage was close to 100% with it.