wolc123

Good luck on your next trip up there rac. I will be heading up again on Thanksgiving weekend with my rifle. A neighbor dropped of another big doe for us yesterday, so I will save my buck tag for that trip unless a real bruiser shows up down here in the Southern zone on opening weekend. As far as the bears go, I would shoot one any size. Those under 200 pounds are real good eating and my father in law really wants a rug for his new place up there (and would pay for it I hope). A 199 pounder would be perfect.

I am very thankful for a wife and two daughters who love venison. That is the main reason meat comes first with me. At this point, 3.5 average sized deer gets us thru a year. Some years, I kill all we need myself but friends usually give us one or two every year (a neighbor dropped off a big doe today). I also pick up road kills if they are in good condition. I definitely get more selective early in the seasons or when the meat supply is good. With about 3 average sized deer in our supply now (two fresh ones, and a leftover-just roasts and chops from last year), all 1.5 year bucks will get a pass from me until the end of the seasons (crossbow, gun and late ML). I have only used my own antlerless ML tag up in the NZ so far this season, and I still have two DMP's for the SZ DMU that includes our farm and that of my folks. It is not easy filling those DMP's around here as they seem to go nocturnal after a few weeks of archery season. I will take any opportunity I get on antlerless deer, regardless of size, but wont start hunting again until crossbow opens a week from Saturday. I have never been selective with my DMP's, always going for the largest bodied deer that presents a good shot. That has resulted in 25% button bucks and those are definitely my wife's favorite. Since we are well stocked now, I will probably target the BB's before their mother's this year. We have been going up the my in-laws Adirondack camp for the long Thanksgiving weekend the last few years and that has made me a bit more selective with my gun season buck tag at home. Two years ago, if I had killed the scrawny little four pointer that walked under my stand on opening weekend, I would not have been able to take my largest bodied buck ever up there in the Adirondacks, on the Saturday after Thanksgiving. I probably would have shot that little four pointer, if I did not already have my own Archery buck and another from a friend in the freezer that year. Last season, I passed up a small, 1-1/2 year buck while still-hunting on my early ML season trip to the NZ. That turned out to be the only chance I had on any deer that year. Fortunately, friends came thru with 3. Still, we would not have ran out of grind a week ago had I killed that little buck when I had the chance, so yes there was some regret. There is definitely more excitement going into a hunt with my buck tag unfilled, and for that I am willing to accept a little regret, and eat a tag every few years.

The neighbor kid was hunting out back this morning in WNY. He saw two 1-1/2 year old bucks (a 6 and a small 8 pt) but is saving his buck tag for something bigger. He did arrow "doezilla" when she came by with a set of twins. He also saw another old doe with twins. His family raises beef cattle and don't care for venison, so he just dropped her off for us. We should be all set now with ground venison for the year, with that and a bit smaller one that I killed up in the NZ on Tuesday with my ML. It looks like good, inside the garage, hide-on, hanging weather in the long range forecast this week, so I guess I have some butchering to do on Saturday. With all that meat in or headed to the freezer already, I am going to be selective with my own remaining tags and I am not going to bother getting more when they come out on Nov 1.

There are lot's of Guinea pigs down there and they are supposed to be good eating. I am looking at my kid's pet right now as I type, and it appears to be halfway between a grey squirrel and cottontail rabbit in size. A friend went down to Mexico on a pigeon hunt a few years back and it was basically non-stop shooting with buckets full of birds and sore shoulders. None of that sounds very appealing to me, nor do the African "zoo" animals. It is tough to beat the Adirondack whitetail hunting we have right here in NY state.

I skipped opening Saturday and Sunday morning (I did not know how I would have dealt with a carcass up there in those warm conditions), but was out a bit on all the other mornings and afternoons of the week long season. I also hunted a bit in the morning of opening day of rifle season with my 30/06. The deer were not moving much on their own, probably due to the warm temps. In many hours of sitting, I did not see or hear any. Still-hunting between spots was definitely more productive. Monday morning a couple must have winded me, down in a trickling creek-bottom, as I walked the ridge up above. They snorted and crashed thru the brush, but it was to thick for me to get more that a glimpse of their white flags. Tuesday morning, I initially started out a little early (ML uncapped) and headed for a spot out back where I intended to rattle. This spot was down-wind of the creek bottom where I had spooked the two unidentified deer the day prior. I quickly realized that I had forgotten a couple things (including my tree umbrella). There was rain in the forecast again that day. By the time I got the umbrella, read the directions, and assembled it, it was past sunrise, so I capped my ML for the walk. The leaves were wet from an overnight soaking rain, so I was not making any noise as I still-hunted towards my ratting spot. When I was about 200 yards from the cabin, I looked to my left and noticed a mature doe, standing broadside and unobstructed, just 25 yards away. I brought the 50 cal to my shoulder, centered the cross-hairs behind her shoulder, and fired. She turned tail and bolted right back towards the cabin. My father in law (who does not hunt) had been awake for a while went outside when he heard the shot. He yelled "did you get one" . I relpied. "I think so". A few seconds later, he yelled: "over here", when he saw the doe piled up in a clearing, right behind his barn. While I was gutting her, another doe ran across the back of the clearing. After hanging the carcass for a short while, from a tree by the barn, we ran her down to Lowelville for processing. They had about 30 deer stacked up there at 11:00, about half bucks and half does, and one small bear. My kids had finished up our last pack of last season's ground venison the week prior, so I was very thankful for the 115 pound field-dressed doe. I had them grind the whole thing, except for the back-straps. I also saved the tenderloins for breakfast, along with the heart and tongue for pickling. I helped a guy at the processor's, stack his decent sized, 2-1/2 year old buck on the pile in the skinning shop. He said that it was the largest of a group of four that came in that morning while his son was rattling. It was about 75 degrees by 11:00, so business was booming at the processors. The two skinners estimated that they could have that whole pile skinned and in the cooler within two hours. They were definitely knocking them off fast. Over the rest of the week, I tried rattling multiple times, mostly in the rain, with no response. While walking to my spot Friday morning, I flushed a button buck and slightly larger doe from a bush-patch, again very close to the cabin. Momma stopped in the power-line cut, offering me an unobstructed, 40 yard, quartering away shot. I left the hammer down, put the crosshairs in the sweet-spot, and touched the trigger. The hammer would have been back were there not two nice bucks at home that I am saving my "either/or" tag for during our Southern zone crossbow season. It would have been nice to see some antlers, while hunting up there, but I am very thankful for that doe. There seemed to be no shortage of them up there this year, probably due to last winter's total absence. The country was gorgeous as usual, especially early in the week, before the wind and rain knocked down all the leaves. I probably gained a few pounds from eating my mother-in-law's fine cooking all week.

I just got back from a 1 week Adirondack whitetail muzzleloader hunt at my in-laws camp in zone 6C. My total expense for the week came to $100. Butchering cost $47 (for 45 pounds of boneless meat from a 115 pound field-dressed doe) and gas, to get me there and back, was $53. They provided the food (my mother in law is a superb cook) and lodging and I helped them get the place ready for winter (boats and patio furniture hauled in, pipes drained, etc). That also included some great fishing, including my second largest smallmouth bass ever (22"), and 20 more in the 12 - 18" range. That big one hit on opening day of muzzleloader season (it was too warm to hunt that day).

I bought a new John Deere 4120, 10 years ago. Back then that line went from 43 hp for the 4120 to 56 hp with the 4720. They were all the same basic tractor and engine, with the fuel pressure adjusted to achieve different hp's. I got a better deal then on the JD when comparing hp, specs and cost than I could get on comparable Kubota's, and New Hollands. The 40-20 series had Tier III, John Deere Powertech, American-made engines back then. Currently, John Deere is using foreign (Yanmar) engines in their smaller Tier IV engines, to meet emission requirements. If I were to buy a new, Tier IV tractor today, in the size range you are looking at, I would lean towards Mahindra, but that would be mostly due to the fact that I have good relationships with two local dealers of that brand. If you are interested in, and can locate a slightly used tractor (I think they stopped making them in around 2014), the JD 40-20 series would be a good pick. My 4120 has held up fairly well, needing only oil filters, a new starter (at 4 years), a new battery (at 8 years), and new front tires (at 10 years). Those stock R1 Titan front tires are junk and I hope the new Carlisles I put on will last a lot longer. Other than the factory Bosh starter that failed much earlier than it should have (I replaced it with an aftermarket Powerstrike), that tractor has been bulletproof. With the front loader and a rear blade, my 4120 works great for clearing snow. My tires are R1 tread, and the rears are calcium loaded. That 4 wheel drive tractor can easily move mountains of snow, without tire chains (that is great for blacktop driveways). Make sure you get a block heater, as most engine wear occurs in cold weather from cold starts because it takes the thickened oil a long time to get to the bearings. I keep it plugged into an extension cord, on a switch that I can turn on from in the house. If I turn that switch on for an hour, the tractor starts as smooth as it does on a hot summer day, even when it is below zero outside. The rear blade/ front loader combo works well with my open station tractor because I can push back the snowbanks with the loader when they get too high. I can see where a cab would be nice to deal with the blowing snow if you go with a blower, but for a blade, open station works fine. I would not want a cab on my tractor mostly because I work in an office every weekday and I love getting outside after work and on weekends. I made a simple, large canopy for summer use that does a great job of blocking out the hot sun. On an open station tractor, you get a nice breeze whenever you move so staying cool in the summer is no problem under that canopy here in NY state at least. Cabs also are a pain in the woods and that fancy curved glass costs a lot of money to replace when you break it. Good luck with your purchase.

I am impressed Core. You are the first anti-crossbow guy who I have seen admit his selfishness and acknowledge that crossbows are far more effective at killing doe's than vertical bows. I would be happy if the state would just let us use them at the start of archery season (even if it is for "antlerless only"), but only in the zones where they are currently struggling to get numbers under control. The crossbow would be more effective than a ML, if allowed then, due to it's silent report. Letting ML's in would backfire by making the deer go nocturnal in those zones even faster than they do now.

For me, it is really only 3 days cross-bow up there, then ML opens this Saturday for a week prior to rifle opening the following Saturday. They call it a 10 day crossbow season, because you can still use it thru ML (and even thru the end of gun season if you wish). I was hoping to get up there for those first three days, but I had to stay down south due to a vacation conflict at work. The delay was ok with me, because now I can stay up there thru the opening weekend of gun season. I will still take my crossbow for backup, but without any breakdowns I will hunt with the most lethal, legal weapon available, with the longest effective range. It looks like it will be warm up there this weekend. Does anyone know of any decent processors with refrigeration near zones 6C or 6F?

They taste the same as those killed with guns, and bows. Broken legs are a bad sign, leave them or use as coyote bait. Many break their neck or just knock themselves out when they run into the side of a vehicle, and those are the best. Often there is not a bruise on the carcass anywhere. When a small deer gets broadsided by a vehicle, there will be some minor bruising on the impact side shoulders, but the other side will be good. Heavier deer get bruised up more when they get broadsided. When it comes to tagging them, I have always just hauled the ones struck near my house home, gutted them quick, hung them up in my garage, then called the local police for a tag. It is not high on their priority list but usually they show up with the tag in less than 24 hours. One time I picked up a big doe in the next town, that woke up when I tried to cut it's tail (I use them for making jigs). It turned out to be a lot fresher than I thought it was. Since I had the knife handy, I hopped on it's back, put it in a hammer lock, and slit it's throat. I threw it in the back of my truck a drove straight to the town police station, still dripping with blood. When the desk officer asked "did the deer have to be shot", I replied, no, I killed it with my knife. His reply was "that would be no", He then gave me a carcass tag, with no further questions. I only pick them up to eat when I know they are fresh, close to home, and not heavily damaged. Those that are close by and heavily damaged, I scoop into the loader bucket of my tractor and dump on my carcass pile for coyote bait (I don't bother getting tags for those). I just clip the tails on those that are far away. Before I settled down and got married, I scored several from the same barstool at a local tavern. One time a young fella came in all upset because he had just hit one with his brand new truck. When I asked where, he said "up the road by the bridge, which is right between my house and the tavern. I bought him a beer to help drown his sorrows and said "see ya later". That fat button buck was one of the finest tasting deer I can remember. It was late when I called, but the cops showed up the next morning with my carcass tag. There is nothing wrong with saving a few bullets or arrows.

I only had it happen one time with an arrow, in the daylight. I used another arrow, thru the lungs. The buck had lost a lot of blood, from a high front leg hit. The arrow had struck forward and below the vitals, and the broadhead and front half stayed in. We had pushed him for several miles (that's a good plan for a arrow in muscle hit). Each time we lost blood, the other guy would circle until we picked it up again. When we finally caught up, he seemed too weak to get up After taking the second arrow, he did manage to get up, and stumble about 10 yards, before going down for good. It is amazing how much blood they can loose and keep going. I have finished off a couple, that had been struck by vehicles, with a knife. That is risky, and I took a hard hoof kick to the leg from one big doe. There was some pain and swelling, but it was worth it, and did not stop me from doing it again ( a little more carefully). Stay clear of those rear hoofs if you try it, and use a sharp knife. If I had to finish another one after dark, I would go with a very sharp knife to the throat.

For a shot taken earlier in the day, I would stay in my stand for a half hour after the shot, unless I saw the deer fall (I would go to it immediately in that case). After the half hour, I would go put down some orange biodegradable tracking tape where the deer stood at the shot and find my arrow. If the evidence pointed to a heart/lung shot, I would follow the blood trail right away, putting down more tape at the last blood found each time along the way. If the evidence (after finding the arrow) indicated the hit was behind the diaphram, I would back out for 3 more hours, then return to my last tape marker and continue the search. If the shot was taken near dusk, I would wait 15 minutes in the stand, then go find the arrow. If the evidence indicated a heart/lung hit I would get right on the blood trail with my flashlight. If the evidence indicated a hit behind the diaphram, I would go back to to my truck/house/cabin and mix up a batch of bloodglow in a sprayer bottle and return to the trail about 2 hours later. They say liver and gut hits are easy to find with that stuff. I can't say for sure from personal experience, because the three deer I have killed since getting it 2 years ago have dropped dead on the spot or within 40 yards. Even though I have not got to use it, having it available has given me the confidence to hunt right up to legal sunset every time, and should also eliminate the possibility of a coyote ever getting some good venison from me. That alone was well worth the $20 purchase price. It is mostly about the meat to me, so I have never and would never back out and wait until the next day. I reluctantly accepted a doe one time from a friend who had left it overnight (when the temps were in the mid 30's). She hit it in the late afternoon, and recovered it just after daybreak the next morning. I could taste that the flavor of the meat was off a bit. I will decline such an offer again, even if my freezer is empty. If I can't get the guts out in a few hours, the coyotes can have it. I am very fussy, when it comes to venison, and if it does not taste as good or better than fine beef, I don't want it. That "overnight doe" was the only one, out of about 100 that I have prepared and tasted, that fell into that category.

I am planning on all 7 days with my TC Omega 50 cal in zone 6C where antlerless are still fair game, then the first 2 days of Rifle in zone 6F with my Ruger M77 30/06. It is looking a little warm early in the long range forecast, so I probably won't hit the woods too hard until Tuesday afternoon. I will probably be spending more time chasing lake trout on Saturday thru Monday, and maybe a little grouse hunting. I am prepared for rain with balloons and/or electric tape to go over the muzzle (thanks Stone and 7600), gore-tex jacket and bibs, and a tree umbrella. I have had good luck rattling in the rain before so I am actually hoping for some this time. Good luck up there.

That doe is special for sure and deserves a mount. The prior owner of a tavern that I have frequented for many years had a "tail up" back-end deer mount that was pretty cool. They had a lot of other mounts there, including big-racked whitetail bucks, elk, water foul and small game. Many years after a change of ownership, and the removal of all that taxidermy, everyone still talks about that deer back-side the most. I think that's what I would opt for with an "extra special" doe. It sounds like you have a awesome property there and it is great that you were able to share your story with your MIL before her passing. Good luck thru the rest of the season.

Did you use a grunt tube or rattling to bring the buck into range? When you drew your bow, was the buck's eyes partially in view? If your answer to either in those questions was "yes", then the buck was in a state of "high alert" when you took your shot. 25 yards is just about the range where "string jump" is most severe, especially on a deer in "high alert". I have hit a few in the shoulder, one doe (or another in her group) probably glimpsed my draw, one buck I rattled in, and the other I grunted in. I know that feeling you have now all too well and I hope to never have it again. I had some consolation later with one because a friend killed him with a gun a month or so later and he was healed up with just a big scar on the shoulder I hit. The other two still haunt me more than 30 years later. I don't remember all of the deer I have killed and recovered during archery season but I will never forget those that I lost. Lots of folks are not bothered too much by wounding deer and go right back out the next day, sometimes wounding more before the season ends. I was never able to do that, and always hung up my bow for the remainder of the season if I could not recover my deer. That is a personal choice for you alone and I don't mean to sway you one way or the other. We all make mistakes and that is how we learn. I have stopped using grunt calls and rattling during archery season (I don't want the deer to have a clue that they are about to get hit). The last few seasons I have even stopped using my vertical bow, since they legalized the crossbow. That eliminates the need to draw when the deer are in close. If the unthinkable does happen again someday, I picked up a product called "bloodglow" two years ago (about $20 for enough to track three deer). It is supposed to make blood glow under the star and moonlight at night when mixed with water. It is supposed to work even better in the rain. I hope to never need it and the (3) deer I have killed since getting it have all died on the spot or within 40 yards of the shot. I always used to pack it in a little early on afternoon hunts, to allow some time for daylight blood-trailing but having the bloodglow in my pack gives me the confidence to hunt right up until legal sunset.

What you already have, plus a whistle, space blanket, small folding saw, protein bars, flashlight, extra batteries, and extra ammo (caps,bullets,powder). A canteen and water purification tablets also come in very handy if you have to pack or drag out a deer a long way. I don't worry much about the purification tablets in the Adirondacks because fresh, clean water is easy to find in deer season up there and I have always been able to get my father in law's ATV fairly close to where I have killed deer. I do remember drinking gallons of "questionable" water as I dragged a mullie from high up a mountain, about 5 miles, down to a trailhead one year on a western hunt however. Each time I emptied my quart canteen, I would go down to the creek, full it up, and add another purification tablet. It is unreal how much you sweat dragging a heavy load at high altitude and warm temperatures. If you do happen to get into a survival situation, remember the "rules of threes": You can go 3 seconds without thinking, 3 minutes without air, 3 hours without shelter, 3 days without water, and 3 weeks without food.

I don't have a whistle in my hunting pack, but I think there is one with a compass and a waterproof match container in the toolbox on my boat. I am going out to the barn right now to get it and I will pack it away for my Adirondack ML hunt next weekend. The extra compass and matches wont hurt nothing either and it takes up less room in my pack than the new butt-out 2 that I just picked up.

Do you use regular black electric tape and do you shoot thru it? I would like full inclusion mostly because that would make it easy for me to fill my DMP tags. Right now, the does and fawns are still out on the clover plots feeding during daylight hours. That always changes, after a few weeks of archery season pressure, when they become almost completely nocturnal. I have always struggled taking does with a vertical bow because they are almost always in groups and fooling all those sets of eyes while making the draw is no easy task. The crossbow eliminates the need to draw while they are in close, which would make it very lethal on does compared to a vertical bow. I would not trade the first 14 days of archery season for the last however, because the last 14 days before gun season always includes the peak of the rut in the Southern zone. That is my favorite time to hunt.

Venison tacos are the best, and that is what we used our last pack for this week. I might just have to thaw out some roasts and put them thru the grinder. With the cold weather coming in, your luck should be changing soon, so get ready for one. I look forward to seeing some pics and I just put in a good word for your son and Turkeyfeather's daughter with my buddy JC. He has helped our family get all the venison we need every year.

Won't you be toting your ML over the last 7 days? I only plan on using my crossbow if it is warm and rainy on those days up in the Northern zone (you got to keep your powder dry). The reason for that is, I am lethal out to 125 yards with my ML and just a shade over 50 with my crossbow. I would certainly buy some better equipment and extend that a bit if they allowed full inclusion. Down here in the Southern zone, we have no early ML season but they allow us 14 days, at the end of archery season, to use the crossbow. Hopefully that will be antlerless only for me this year, if I can get my ML/archery buck filled up in the northern zone next week.

When I finish a hunt, I fire a bolt tipped with a field point, of the same weight as my hunting broadheads, into a target bag. For afternoon hunts, the bag goes under a floodlight in the back yard. That makes it easy in the dark, with the illuminated red-dot sight my crossbow. Placing that bolt dead center on the bullseye not only unloads the crossbow, but also builds my confidence for the next hunt. I made a target bag by filling an empty nylon seed bag with old towels and rags. It did not cost me a dime, stops the bolts better than those store-bought foam block targets, the bolts pull out easier, and it is lighter and easier to transport. A small minority of selfish, elitist bowhunters has delayed the crossbow into archery season in NY and still prevents "full inclusion". They don't want to share "their" deer with folks who don't have the time or ability to master a vertical bow. They would rather see motorists kill deer than "lesser" hunters.

Good luck out there with your boy on the youth hunt. I like your plan of getting him some experience with the gun and crossbow before the compound. That is what I plan with my daughters in a couple years, if they are willing. They are still in middle school and have been shooting well on targets with their bb guns. They both play field hockey now and have expressed some interest in joining the rifle team when they get to high school. One thing is certain, they both love eating venison, which puts some pressure on me to produce. It will be great when they can help me get it, not just eat it. They just finished off our last package of grind (they like that the best), leaving us with only about 30 pounds of roasts and chops in the freezer. Hopefully, I can start to re-stock during a 9-day, Adirondack ML and rifle hunt, beginning next weekend.

It sounds like broadhead made it most of the way thru at the shot, but was stopped by the front leg on the opposite side. The back third of the arrow was sheared off when her front leg (towards you) came back at the start of her death run. The front 2/3 came out when her front leg on the other side buckled and she fell down dead. I would guess that she was slightly quartering away, just like the other two. Broadside would have been a pass thru. Personally, I like quartering away because it gives a little more room for error. The only downside is it costs you a shaft and the blood trail can be tougher without an exit wound. Congrats on the doe, that should be some good eating.

There are lots of folks who won't age deer no matter what evidence is presented that aging improves the texture and flavor of red meat. They "know better" for reasons beyond my understanding and that of most butchers. The point I disagree most with, in the above article, is the section on ground meat. My experience has always been that ground meat from aged deer is not as "chewy" as that from deer that are not aged and still have the "rigermortice" in the meat. I verified that once again last season, when I ground and froze a 2-1/2 year old buck and doe the day after they were killed. The grind from both of them was significantly chewier than a 2-1/2 year old buck that I aged for a week before grinding on the year prior. A 1-1/2 year old buck, that I aged for a week prior to grind last year, was at least twice as tender as those two "quick ground" ones. I am certain that was due more to the aging than his age, because I could not tell the difference in aged 1-1/2 and 2-1/2 year old bucks the year before (another good reason to pass on the 1-1/2's early in the season). I don't always have the time to age deer and at least the grinder makes it edible with rigermortice still in it. The article is right on about leaving the hide on to insulate against high and low temps. It is the temperature of the meat that matters. An old fridge is perfect for maintaining near ideal aging temperatures over a week or more. He touches a little on water being necessary for bacteria growth (some of you fellas that like to rinse the cavity out with water might want to pay attention to that) - not a smart move unless you rupture the stomach or bladder. There is an easy way to tell when the meat is aged long enough (the guy is right on that it gets there faster when it is warmer), and that is to feel the meat. Feel it right after you kill it and remember what it felt like. Let a 1-1/2 year old deer age a week at 40 F (less time warmer, more time colder, and less time for younger deer, more time for older deer). It will feel tough, like a pencil eraser when the rigermortice takes hold, several hours after death. After that breaks down, in a week or so, it will once again feel like it did when fresh killed. That is the time to process it and freeze it. Many hunters can stomach their venison but their wives, girlfriends and others can not. If you age it properly, it will taste just like fine beef. Think about how much better hunting would be if they liked the meat. My wife is always twisting my arm to hunt more because her and the kids love the meat. She is sending me away to the Adirondacks with her folks for 9 days next week because she used our last pack of grind yesterday.

Here the second best reason to hunt the edge and not the center of the Adirondack park. The primary reason is that there are a lot less deer in the center. Deer need food and the mature forest at the center provides very little compared to the mixed farmland and logged forests on the edges. My Verizon cellphone provides excellent coverage in zones 6C and 6F at least. That makes it real nice after you get a deer (or bear). Just call camp and get someone to get an ATV as close as possible to your location (been there done that).