wolc123

Thanks for the "Jesus-bump" Steve. The more light we can shine on the true reason for every hunters success the better.

That is a very good article, spot-on on all points. I saw it work first hand last year almost step by step on Thanksgiving weekend in Adirondacks (zone 6F). The author just missed the last three steps I needed: Praying to see a buck, praying to hit it, then praying to find it (It disappeared after my 3rd shot). Fortunately all three of those prayers were answered. Check out the mountain-climbing hind-quarters on that sucker which field dressed over 200 pounds. We didn't have a scale up there, but that's what I weigh and I could lift myself off the ground on the other end of the rope & pulley while his rear was still on the ground. I hope to give it a try again this year if I cant fill my buck tag opening week in the Southern zone flat-lands.

Marlin M512 bolt-action rifled shotgun, & 2-3/4" 12 ga Hornady SST's.

Thanks for bringing that up Belo. It is always nice to have other some other folks shine the light on Jesus where it belongs. We cant talk about Him is school or at work but there is no limit here. That sure is refreshing in today's "politically-correct" society. This seems to be a "target-rich" environment where we could use all the reminders we can get. Good luck with your vertical bow and I will pray that He also guides your arrow to the right spot, giving you a clean kill. Please post it when you get it, as many times as you like. Maybe refresh your avatar so we can see it 5440 times.

It is reasonable to assume that better shot placement could be achieved from a scoped crossbow, fired from a rest, than from a vertical bow. Better shot placement should decrease the odds of a wounded deer. My experience has indicated that even an entry-level crossbow has far more penetration than a mid-level compound. That is why special targets are needed with crossbows, they blast right thru most standard archery targets. Better penetration might help a bit if the shoulder blade is struck. Because the crossbow is newly legal in NY, you might want to check out some Ohio, or other forums to get more accurate info from those with far more experience. Most of what we find here is desperate "thrashing" coming from that small minority of selfish, elitist bowhunters doing their darndest to stop the inevitable, FULL INCLUSION IN ARCHERY SEASON. They don't want to share their woods or their deer with people who lack the time, strength, or ability to develop proficiency with a regular bow. They have drawn a hard line in the sand and refuse to back down. They are mostly young, tough, strong guys. Why should women, children, elderly, and physically disabled people be able to hunt their deer? When they get old enough, or stick and loose enough deer with their verticals, they may come around. I honestly don't hate these people but I do hate their selfish actions of trying to keep the crossbow out. I hate it more every time I read of someone sticking and loosing another deer with their regular bow. How many did we hear about on here today? Any yet with a crossbow? I know it will likely happen to me someday, but I will continue to work as hard as I can to keep my current 100% hit kill and recover record going with my $250 crossbow package. Did the sky fall in Ohio or any of the other states which have allowed full inclusion of the crossbow in archery season?

This sounds like a good place to use "bloodglow" tonight. You might even find it before the coyotes do. That stuff is supposed to make blood glow in the moon or starlight, after you mix it with water. It was developed for crime scene use. I think the active ingredient is "luminol". The cost last year was $29 for enough to track (4) deer. They say it works even better in the rain. I bought some last fall but have not tried it yet for both deer I hit since have died within 40 yards. Where are you located?

Belo, have you ever heard the phrase: "if you can't beat them join them". You may want to think about that. I just heard today about another former "anti" who got himself a crossbow and loves it. You are standing on a sinking ship son. It may be a coincidence, but he recently stuck a 12 point in the shoulder blade (and lost it) with his regular bow.

Last season $250 Barnett Recruit package, stock arrow and sight (3-dot red/green), 125 grain blackout (Bass-Pro) mechanical broadhead. 59 yard shot, 40 yard run after hit thru heart. I was thinking of getting the Raptor and using the Recruit for backup, but I am leaning towards just adding another Recruit. I only got 8" of arrow penetration at that range (the Raptor's extra 30 fps would help a bit there) so I am limiting myself to 50 yards max this season. I picked up a range finder to help make sure. My Recruit with factory sight holds a consistent 3" group from a rest in calm conditions at 50 yards. The only way I would consider forking over more dough is if they make them legal for all of archery season. 2 weeks for $250 is good for me, especially since it includes the peak of the rut.

Good luck to all the bow hunters and Crossbow hunters out there this morning. I am getting ready to head out myself for the first time in the Southern zone this morning. The North wind looks good for one of my new stands.

That is probably one of the biggest misconceptions out there: that He is "limited" in some way. Look above and tell me where the sky ends. Forever is real and He is right at the center of it. He knows where every sparrow falls.

Why does JC allow deer to be wounded? Wounding a deer is a good way to make a better hunter. It is a lot easier learning lessons "the hard way", than from the testimony of others. The woundings don't seem to bother some archers too much. How many have reported multiple strikings and misses on this site alone this season? Personally, I would get on those more who report clean misses as they are further from the mark and therefore have more to learn. Why does everyone let them off the hook so easily? Honestly though, I cant get on them too bad because I continued to hunt when I had a clean miss, only stopping for the year when I got a clean kill or wounded one that I did not recover no matter how "superficial" the wound. JC has his schedule and we have ours and seldom do they coincide. More often than not, a little patience is required on our parts. He will always turn things for good to those who love him and accept his grace. I have had big bucks delivered in less than 5 minutes of my asking and I have had some rough seasons where I came up empty handed. With every kill, it gets clearer to me who is in full control. Sometimes I am the one pulling the trigger, but always, He is the one who provides.

I wait 1/2 hour on average prior to leaving the stand during morning hunts. In past years, sometimes less on late afternoon hunts, to take advantage of the daylight (more on this later). Every shot is different however. I only ever hit one too far back and a half hour wasn't enough for that one as I never found it. If that ever happens to me again, I will wait at least 4 hours, even if the shot was taken right at dusk. Most of my archery kills have fallen close enough for me to hear the crash. None of those got back up, so the half hour was plenty. I would not wait at all if one fell in sight, but that has not happened to me yet during archery season. More than half have dropped in sight for me with a gun. I still wait 15 minutes or so with those and have been rewarded with a fair number of "multiple-kills" over the years as a result. For many years, I stopped hunting with a bow about 15 minutes before legal sunset to have a little natural light left for tracking. Last year I bought some "bloodglow", which makes blood glow in the star and moonlight. The two bucks I killed since getting that went less than 40 yards, so I have not got to try it yet. It does give me the "recovery confidence" to hunt until the last legal minute now, well worth the $29 purchase price (enough for 4 deer). There are some hits where waiting does more harm than good. I hit my first archery buck outside the vitals, but the broadhead remained inside his front upper leg, on the opposite side. Keeping him moving kept the broadhead cutting and kept him bleeding. Ideal tracking conditions made for a long but slow recovery. Several hours and miles later, I found him too tired to stand and finished him with a center lung shot. Having two guys to track helped a ton with that one as one of us was always able to find the blood trail after each temporary loss.

I bought mine last spring shortly after the announcement came out that they were legalized for the last two weeks of archery season. In prior years, I would have started shooting my compound by then but my doctor had me on a maximum lift of 10 pounds as I was recovering from some major surgery. The timing on the Crossbow was therefore perfect for me. Without it, I would have had one less buck in the freezer for sure last year. I am being conservative when I say (repeatedly) that the Crossbow is 10 times more effective on deer than a compound in my hands at least. I almost agree with NY state classifying it legally as a muzzleloader in that respect. The accuracy I can attain on the range with my scoped crossbow is better than what I can do with my open-sight, side lock, 50 caliber, cap and ball, muzzleloader. Each has approximately a 50 yard effective range. The crossbow has two big advantages over that weapon however - silence and "discharge" dependability. I was never able to kill a deer with that old sidelock, but have enjoyed considerable success with my modern, scoped, in-line ML. That one also extends my effective range out to about 125 yards. It would be hard for anyone to argue that a crossbow would not increase an average hunter's odds of making a clean kill on a deer during archery season. What's wrong with that? I agree with Doc that the odds would be even better with a rifle but that argument doesn't hold water because deer go nocturnal shortly after hearing the first gunshots during gun season. I struggle a lot with the mentality of wanting to "challenge" oneself while increasing the odds of a wounded deer. If you want a "challenge", there are far better sports to do it with than hunting. Golf and bowling come to mind. Finally, all this bickering is small stuff and when it comes right down to it, the weapon you use to kill your deer does not matter all that much. Every deer is going to end up right where JC wants them to go. Good luck to all on the Crossbow opener this Saturday, and don't forget He who died on The Cross long ago for all of us. Keeping things in order with Him is way more important than any of this hunting stuff.

For a meat hunter like myself, a 2-1/2 year buck like that is as good as it gets, the perfect combination of quality and quantity. I passed a little 1-1/2 with the ML up in the Northern zone a few weeks ago. I hope a 2-1/2 like that shows up Saturday when x-bow season opens down here in the Southern zone.

It is refreshing to see at least one bow-hunter (the OP) changing their stance on the Crossbow. It looks like we might still have the momentum. Hopefully, that will soon culminate in full inclusion. Some of these recent replies indicate that there are still a few dug-in anti's out there who don't want it in "their" season no matter what. The Man upstairs must be backing the Crossbow, because it looks like a pretty good weather forecast for the Southern-zone opener this Saturday. Those fighting to keep the Crossbow out remind me of the Axis trying to hold off the Allies, or the Rebs trying to stop the Yank's. While they both had some brave, highly-skilled soldiers, if you are fighting for a lost cause and without the backing of The Man upstairs, you would be better off rolling over early to reduce casualties on both sides. Speaking of casualties, whats up with all the bow woundings being reported this year? It's not just here either. I ran into a local bow-hunting "all-star" out at a bar last night and even he reported wounding the largest buck he ever shot at this season.

I know there are some folks out there who live for bow-hunting and are willing to put in the effort to become very proficient with that weapon. Where I have a problem is when they don't want to share "their" deer with folks who may lack the strength, or time to attain such proficiency. That is pretty much pure selfish elitism. There are plenty of deer to go around but they do deserve to be killed cleanly. If the crossbow can help us "lazier" folks do that, why keep them out? We need all the hunters we can get. If you hunt with a vertical bow, you have got to be willing to accept some misses, and some woundings. This site is especially loaded with examples of that this year. Obviously no one wants to wound deer, but some of us are bothered more than others by that. I only missed a deer once with my bow, over 30 years, but I did wound a few that I did not recover. I have forgotten some of my clean kills, but none of the woundings. I know for certain that one of those fully recovered, as a friend harvested him a month later with a healed up shoulder blade. Two others I hit there likely did ok also, but the one I hit too far back will always haunt me. I was always "done for the season" with the bow on those years. I cringe every time I see folks tell those who wound deer to "get back out there and try again". I say "get to the range", or "hang it up for the year, learn from your mistake, and do better next season". While I cant speak for anyone else, I know that in my hands at least, a deer is far less likely to be wounded from my crossbow than my vertical bow. There is simply no comparison in the accuracy I can achieve firing a scoped crossbow from a rest, and a vertical bow with pin & peep sights offhand. I can pick out a hair I want to hit at 50 yards with that crossbow, while I am limited to a pie-plate at 30 yards with my vertical. For that reason, I doubt I will pick up my vertical again for deer hunting. Sure it would be nice to get out there for all of archery season, but I am thankful that we at least got the best two weeks. I like it cold for deer hunting, so I didn't miss anything on this warm season so far anyhow. Saturday's cold forecast looks perfect for the opener.

When I had that problem, if I saw the guy in the other stand, I went somewhere else. They would also do the same thing. It is not a big deal, as long as you have enough land with some other options. With smaller properties it can be tough for sure. For quite a few years, I had a productive stand on a 6-acre woodlot, until it produced two nice wallhanger bucks for me in one year with a bow and gun. It was a narrow piece of land, and the next year I had neighbor's treestands less than 50 yards away on two sides. They wanted some of that action and boxed me in pretty good. That made the hunting tougher as the spot was too small for multiple locations. I ended up selling, a few years later, after taking only a couple more antlerless deer there. It was good while it lasted and I was thankful for the "peaceful" hunts I had there. The cash came in handy for a nice new tractor however.

The 3100 psi pressure washer did not harm the horns, but I did not direct the stream on them. I have heard that some folks wrap the lower part of the horns with duct-tape. The mess was not that bad from just the scull plate, but I imagine a whole head would be worse. I have a big concrete pad out in the country by my barn so it was no big deal.

I just threw some deer parts out on my bait pile this morning. It gets a lot easier hunting coyotes at night after we get some snow. There is enough moon left now, that it may be doable for a few days anyhow. Hopefully the snow will arrive soon. That always makes the deer hunting and the coyote hunting much better.

I finally got to try the pressure washer I garbage-picked this summer on a scull plate. It took a little longer than I was expecting but did a pretty decent job. A few tips I picked up during the process: 1.) Do it on a concrete pad, not on the grass. 2.) Cut off most of the raw hide with a sharp knife prior. 3.) Wear rubber boots and rubber bibs. 4.) Wear goggles or safety glasses. With a 3100 psi washer and a pencil nozzle, it took about 20 minutes to blast off all the brains and hide, leaving a clean skull plate, on a buck killed 2 days prior. I would imagine that a full European mount would take about an hour. It is still a messy job, but much faster and less smelly than the usual, boil and scrape method. The last time a neighbor kid did an older buck for me, using the conventional "boil" method, it turned out pretty good, but his own 1-1/2 year buck, that he did in the same pots, got cracked up a bit. The scull plate I did today with the pressure washer was also from a 1-1/2 year old buck, and the pressure washer did not do any damage to the skull at all, even to the thin areas around the sinus passages. It removed all the brains, skin and other soft tissue.

The long range weather predictions are looking real good for the opener, next Saturday. I just picked up two more doe tags and I can't wait to get out there with a weapon that is ideally suited for killing does. No longer will I "get busted" when one pair of eyes out of a group catches me making the draw. Also, I passed up a little guy up in the Northern zone with my Muzzleloader a few weeks ago, so if "Mister Big" shows up, I still have a tag for him. I just hope some antlerless deer get into range for me during those two weeks. Last year, only two bucks showed up in range. I was sleeping when the first arrived. Thankfully, his little bit bigger brother wasn't so lucky a few days later.

Lockport Walmart was good this afternoon, with just one guy at the counter ahead of me when I got there and I had no trouble getting (2) more 9F's, bringing my total to (4). Hopefully, I can start filling them next weekend when Crossbow opens up. The weather sounds perfect then with lows in the 30's. The rest of this week looks terrible with highs in the 70's. My deer fridge is full now with a 4-point a neighbor dropped off for us last night. That one should be aged perfect for processing next weekend, and any I kill later should be able to hang out in the garage by the looks of the long-range weather predictions. I killed a tick on that young buck when I was skinning him this morning. We need some more cold to get rid of them damn things.

I'll take a stab at that one: We got to go back to the OP, since that is all we have for info on that particular buck from an "eye-witness". It sounds like the OP estimated the age of the buck as 13-1/2 years old. That is "ancient" for a free-range, NY state buck. The oldest buck I ever killed in NY was one last year that I would estimate at 4-1/2 - 5-1/2 and it was still in near-peak physical condition, except for considerable tooth wear. A 13-1/2 year old would have to be in pretty rough shape overall. The first deer I ever shot at with a bow (and also wounded - shoulder blade hit), was a doe of similar vintage. She came in with a big healthy doe and a fawn. All three were in range, but "grandma" offered the best shot so I took it. She pulled the old "duck and jump", when she heard my bow release at 25 yards, taking the arrow in the shoulder blade. She may have recovered from that shot, I will never know, but she was clearly near the end of the line anyhow. Maybe the OP took some extra risk on this old buck because he could tell that it was in wretched condition. A stomach hit will usually kill within 24 hours, not pleasant, but probably better than some other alternatives, which could include starvation. If that old boy had made it thru 13 hunting seasons, he did a lot better than most. Rather than adorning some lucky hunter's wall, now he can be at peace in the forest where he evaded them for so long. p.s., I just checked out "Google maps" to verify the distance that the 4-point currently hanging in my garage was killed at from my position at the time: 44.34 miles. My 50 mile estimate was a little over this time, unlike last year's Crossbow 6-point where I estimated 50 yards and he turned out to be 59. I ain't perfect but JC is, He always gets things exactly right. I cant make it to church this morning since there is skinning and quartering to do. Happy hunting to all of you headed to the woods.

One other possibility is "string jump". If a deer is in a state of "high-alert", which could be triggered by a periforal glimpse of your "draw" motion, the initial reaction is to drop down when they hear the bow release. Also, bucks that respond to grunt calls or rattling are "alerted", and literally looking to get jumped on the way in. 35 yards is about the range where string jump is most severe. If he was farther, he would not have heard your bow release, triggering the duck & jump. If he were closer, he would not have been able to move as far when the arrow was in the air. You are fortunate that your arrow missed clean. I have struck several in the shoulder blade in those situations. At least that injury has a good recovery rate. String jump is the biggest reason why proficiency on paper does not translate to proficiency on deer for the bow-hunter. The paper don't move while the arrow is in the air.

Thanks for the bump Belo & Buckmaster . A little more focus in the right place and you all might be able to post us some new pictures this season. They are out there now and active. A neighbor just dropped off a stout little 4-point that he arrowed yesterday afternoon. Them tenderloins will be good with my eggs tomorrow morning. He heart-shot that one too, from the ground, as it was walking towards him at 20 yards. Too bad he left it with the rest of the gut pile, so no fresh heart pictures yet. He was a little upset to see it was a buck, as there were four or five "big boys" he was after. It could have used two more years. Too upset to eat it himself I guess, but it worked out well for me. Now I can be a little more selective with my own buck tag out there with the Crossbow next week. Good luck with the rest of the season. Distance?, heck the one hanging in my garage now came from nearly 50 miles away. Jesus truly is amazing, almost like when he helped those fellas fill their boats with fish. I did not even need to waste an arrow on that one.