wolc123

That would be great. I am heading up to the Adirondacks next weekend for the opening of ML season. The last couple years it has been too warm for much deer action then. Handling and keeping the carcasses fresh for the ride home would have been trouble, so I spent most of my time fishing. On the last real cold opener up there, several years ago, I was able to take a fine doe. I was also hoping to get after some bear (lots of sightings around camp lately). I have been debating on driving our small, front-wheel drive car or the big, 4x4, 3/4-ton pickup truck. The snowy forecast and falling gas prices are telling me to take the truck. That will be a lot better for hauling deer (and/or bear) home also.

Some of you guys who cut your deer up and freeze it ASAP out to give aging a try if the temperature is not too high. The older the deer, the more important that is. Even a 6-month deer is a bit better after 3 or 4 days at around 40 degrees. 2 weeks is perfect for a 4-1/2 year old (you math whizzes can interpolate the time for the ones in between). Any red meat should be aged to get the best quality on the table. Definitely get the guts out of the deer, and get it cooled ASAP. Keeping it out of the sun is critical, and leaving the hide on helps out for reasons already mentioned. If its too warm, use and old fridge. If your wives, girlfriends and kids have been turning up their noses at the venison you have been tolerating yourself, give it a try. You got nothing to loose. If they enjoy eating it they will be far more tolerant of the time you spend hunting. Maybe part of the confusion with hunters, is that most of them are also fisherman, and it is definitely best to get that meat processed as soon as possible after the kill.

My worst late ML was back in the day that NY made us use side-locks and open sights. A huge-bodied buck, that had already dropped one horn, walked right under my stand. Our freezer was empty, and my mouth was watering as I watched him sway side to side right below. "Snap" went the cap, but the load never fired. He looked up, picked up his pace a little, then disappeared behind the next hedgerow. We ate lots of chicken that winter.

I killed my heaviest buck in the Adirondacks last season, but have taken several lighter deer with larger racks in WNY. My buddy killed one of the largest racked non-typicals in the state a couple years ago there, and it did not field dress much over a hundred pounds. I agree that if antlers are your primary objective, Erie and Niagara counties are a good bet. Those are also "doe-only" areas for the first two weeks now. Maybe having so many does around helps bucks grow large racks. They don't have to fight over them so much. Climbing the mountains puts more weight on their hind-quarters, which is where most of the body mass is carried. That may be why the mountain deer are bigger, especially during seasons with heavy mast production. When you say "big", is it antlers or bodies you are referring to?

The one I bought has "angle sense" It must work out the trigonometry for you. That should be great for hunting up on ridge tops and shooting down into the valley which was how I got my Adirondack buck last fall. I cant wait to try it out in less that 2-weeks when I can get up there with the ML. I usually don't play a lot of golf, but it sure seems like it would work a lot better for that than the cheap little one I had that determined the range by the height of the flag. The camo finish may not go over so well at the country club however.

You surely are not a math whiz. Do you realize that night is longer than day at that time of year? To properly model the situation you would need a third order differential equation (or something like that). The "proof is in the pudding". I have never had any spoiled venison with over a hundred aged that way. In fact, almost all who ate it thought it was top - choice beef. Once you learn how to properly prepare venison, you will likely never want to eat beef again. The venison is much better for your heart (also a lot more fun to acquire).

For me, it's just like the old days when bow season didn't open until October 15 anyhow. The upside is that it gives me some more time for squirrel hunting. Them things are tasty for a change and I still have plenty of venison in the freezer from last year. My first deer hunt will be opening day of ML in the NZ the weekend after next, then I will take a week off and be back at it for bucks, assuming I still have a tag, and does in the SZ with the crossbow. Anybody looking for a couple of old compounds?

The outside daytime highs may even have hit 60 a few times last year. The temp inside my insulated garage with concrete floor may have reached the lower 50's a couple of afternoons. That further illustrates the advantage of leaving the hide on. It will help insulate the meat, keeping it in the mid 30's to lower 40's (ideal aging temps) during occasional daytime highs in the 50's. I never take any chances with spoilage however, and am quick to go to the fridge if the temps are even predicted to be too high. Have you ever aged your venison? Rigermortise sets in within an hour of a kill. When it is aged long enough, that it feels like a fresh kill again, it is ready for processing. If you cut it up before that, your jaw will get a workout during consumption.

There is definitely something to that "special" gun thing. I love hunting with my granddad's old Ithaca 37, 16 ga, pump, smoothbore on his farm which my parents still own and live on. I deliberately pick spots that are a little thicker and don't offer shots much over 75 yards or so to stay well within the gun's limitations. Later in the season, those spots hold more deer anyhow. I am very well stocked with 16 ga slugs that I got for $1 a box when a sporting goods store up in Brewerton closed a few years back. That beats the heck out of the $3 ea sabots that my 12 ga rifled slug gun likes. The pump also allows for significantly faster follow up shots than the bolt, a feature which I seldom need as the first shot nearly always has done the trick. The only situation where I would use open sights today would be hunting in a freezing rain. You can always bank on some of that during hunting season here in NY. I am also one of those guy's who doesn't like challenging myself at the possible expense of the deer, so I use a scope whenever I can.

I leave it on until the day before I process the meat. It keeps it from drying out and insulates against temperature extremes during the aging process (7 -14 days, depending on how old the deer was). If it is too warm to just hang in the garage, then I skin right away and hang the skinned hind quarters and front section in an old refrigerator thru the 7 - 14 days. Last season was a rarity in that we had near perfect "hanging weather" from the middle of archery season until the end of ML, so I got four deer properly aged without needing the fridge. In extreme warm conditions, it does help to get the hide off right away, but we don't often see those conditions here in NY. Getting the guts out ASAP, splitting the rib cage and propping it open, cools the carcass plenty fast enough in the typical mid-30 nighttime temps which we averaged thru last season. Leaving that hide on really helps out for occasional daytime highs in the 50's or nighttime lows in the 20's. Another plus with skinning one day and processing the next, is it splits up the workload a little.

I can't say what it smells like because I have not opened any of the packages yet. Hopefully I never need to, but it does give me the confidence to stay in the stand until the end of legal light. I would always pack it in a half hour early on afternoon hunts during archery season to allow for some natural tracking light. As far as stinking up the area, it cant be any worse than a tracking dog. I hear it is especially effective at locating gut-shot deer. It picks up blood spots that are way to small to see even in bright daylight. They say rain makes it work even better.

I went to the one in Niagara on the Lake today. It was nice and only 45 min from home. Light years better than Gander Mountain. Crossing into Canada at the Lewiston Queenston bridge cost $3.50, but no problems with traffic or parking. I hadn't been to Canada in ages, since the "enhanced license" requirement came up anyhow. Fortunately work sprung for a passport and that got me over and back with no hassle. I am kind of glad they put it there instead of the city of Buffalo, which has traffic and parking issues and is only 15 minutes closer for me. For the big ticket items, I just wanted to look and compare, then ordered on-line when I got home. You can bring back $100 worth of stuff without paying duty and the exchange rate is great now. The staff was very friendly and helpful up there, especially the nice lady at the gun counter who helped me with the rangefinders. I will probably continue to frequent that store, as the one in Victor would take me twice as long to get to from home. I may hit that one, if they build it, on the way to the Adirondacks or 1000 islands however, which we normally visit 5 or 6 times a year. I did check out the one in the Finger Lakes last year on the way to New Jersey and it was ok, but the staff was not as friendly or helpful as they were up in Canada. Don't go there for hackle feathers for fly-tying however, it seems the Jewelers have that market cornered, nothing left for the fisherman in Canada anyhow. Good thing my dad raises chickens and has a couple heads frozen in the freezer for me now.

Google "bloodglow" and try and get some of that stuff. It is what cops use at crime scenes and makes "invisible" tiny blood specs glow in the dark. You mix a tablet with water or windshield wiper fluid in freezing temps, and apply it with a spray bottle. You follow the trail in the dark without a light. I bought some last year but all the deer I have struck since have dropped in their tracks or in less than 40 yards.

I would recommend "turning the other cheek" and not posting the name. Everyone eventually gets what they got coming if you know what I mean.

I was wondering what members opinions and recommendations are regarding range finders. I will be deer hunting this season with an assortment of weapons with various effective ranges. These are, along with the longest range that I have killed a deer with each:, a crossbow with red-dot sight (59 yards), a smoothbore shotgun with open sights (100 yards), a smoothbore shotgun with 1-1/2X scope (120 yards), a rifled shotgun with 3X scope (163 yards), an in-line ML with 2-7X scope (175 yards), and a rifle with 3-9X scope (325 yards). With the exceptions of the rifle and rifled shotgun, all of those ranges are slightly beyond what I would consider the effective range of the weapon used. The crossbow only pushed the bolt 8" into the deer (fortunately thru the heart). The open-sight shotgun buck was only hit because I could see where the first two shots struck in the mud and had him "bracketed" for the third. The first scoped smoothbore slug I fired hit low on the buck, breaking a front leg. The only reason I was able to catch him and kill him from point-blank range was because someone else had shot off a rear hoof a week or two prior (I was faster than a 2-legged deer back then). The ML must have caught only one lung and I was not able to find the buck until a week later with the help of the crows and after the coyotes ate most of him (no I did not eat the rest). The limits I have established (sometimes the hard way) are going to be: 50 yards for the crossbow, 75 yards for the smoothbore with open sights, 100 with the scope, 150 yards for the ML, 175 for the rifled slug gun, and 350 with the rifle. Today I went over to BPS in Canada to check out rangefinders that would work in all these situations. I ended up ordering the "Halo" 1000 which was on sale for $179 Canadian, or $149 US. I plan on using it from most spots where I choose to sit by sighting various objects where a deer may appear. When I checked one out in the store it was very repeatable on objects from 10 yards to 100 yards (big store) away. It also agreed with some of the more expensive models they had, and was highly recommended by the sales staff. If nothing else it will be more convenient than messing around with a tape measure out on the range when I am practicing.

Aiming low is great advice to compensate for "string jump". I learned that lesson after my own first shot a deer. More even than your first kill, you will never forget your first miss, and without question you will learn more from it. I wasn't quite as lucky with mine however as the arrow struck the old doe square in the shoulder blade, when she ducked at the sound of my release. I was a youngster back then, not using much poundage, and the arrow did not penetrate at all. As she bolted off, I could see it flapping on trees. Even with the help of a very experienced mentor, we never found a drop of blood, but were able to recover the arrow after several hundred yards of difficult tracking that was started after we waited half-hour. That experience helped me on my next shot a few years later, on my first antlered buck with a bow. I aimed low, and he didn't duck (bucks are usually a little more distracted during the rut making that less likely than with the "always skittish" does). The arrow cut the artery above his heart with the broadhead lodging against the upper leg bone on the opposite side. He also bolted off after the shot. The tracking was not easy, as there was no "exit wound", and the shot severed the "pump", leaving no blood to follow. Fortunately he didn't make it more than a hundred yards and I spotted his "upended" white belly after making a few circles around where I lost his tracks. I have lost count of the deer I have killed with a bow, but I do remember the few others that I hit but could not recover. Two more were hit in the shoulder blade, including a big buck that a friend ended up killing with a slug a few weeks later. I was thankful to see that the wound I had inflicted had healed cleanly. On those rare years when I did hit a deer that I could not recover, It was always the end of my archery season for the year. Now that the crossbow is legal, I have retired my regular bow. For us older, working guys, with family responsibilities and less free time, that is the greatest thing to ever come along on the archery hunting scene in NY.

My primary goal is always the same, whether I am hunting or fishing: to come back with some food. If it wasn't, I would probably be into golf, football, baseball, or bowling, none of which do a thing for me. A secondary goal is to enjoy myself when I am out there, and I usually do. Sometimes it is tough when the weather is bad and the action is slow. Knowing that the big one might show up at any moment always keeps it exiting. I can't think of any pursuits where one is better positioned to receive and enjoy God's blessings than hunting and fishing. No wonder Jesus's first followers were fisherman.

I am guessing he wants to "challenge" himself. There seems to be lots hunters who like doing that. During archery season, they will use a long-bow, during ML, a flintlock with open sights. It makes sense that these folks would want to try the smallest gun legally allowed during gun season. Some will even take only "head shots" at their quarry, as the smaller target is a bigger challenge to hit. As a pure "killer" and meat-hunter, I cant relate to that kind of logic at all. I don't want to give the deer any extra chance, or risk wounding one so I can "challenge" myself. I always want to make it as easy as legally possible to get a clean kill every time, and to do it at reasonable cost. That is mostly out of respect for the animal, and the excellent food it provides my family. Even though "challenging" myself to kill deer is not my cup of tea, I do respect those who do go to those lengths to harvest deer. The dedication required to become proficient in more primitive and/or less lethal weapons is considerable, and most folks I know that do it put in a lot of time and do ok with one hand tied behind their back.

Unless you were in danger of starving and have no better weapon available, I would not recommend a 410 for deer. It will get the job done if you are close enough. Some folks could probably kill a deer with their bare hands. I once brought down a big doe, that was wide awake after having been temporarily unconscious from striking her head on a car, by slitting her throat with a 1-1/4" blade key-chain knife. Fortunately, it was brand-new and extremely sharp. I had a much tougher time this past winter finishing off a small button buck in a similar situation with my old Buck 110 lock-blade hunting knife that was badly in need of sharpening after a "busy" season. Just like a sharp blade on a little knife is better, I suppose a little bullet in the right spot is better, but you will definitely run out of energy at about 50 yards with a 410 slug. Thank you for bringing up the 410 however, for it reminded me that I have one and lots of #6's available. That is what I should take out for squirrels this weekend. With all the leafs still on the trees, it will give me much better odds of getting enough for a meal than the .22 that I was planning on using. I don't plan on chasing deer until x-bow opens in the Northern zone in a couple more weeks. We have been hitting the venison so hard the past several weeks to make room for the new stuff in the freezer, that a some squirrel will be a welcome change. With the cold front moving in, and acorns aplenty, the 410/squirrel action should be real good this weekend. Normally, I like to use a .22 for squirrels as it also gives me good marksmanship practice for deer hunting. Shooting deer with a scoped center-fire rifle or crossbow gets as easy as shooting ducks in a barrel after you hone your skills enough on squirrels with the 22. Squirrels provide much more realistic practice than paper targets or cans plus are great eating. Right now it is the eating that concerns me more than the practice (I have had plenty of that this summer with the girls and their bb guns shooting cans), so the 410 it will be. I probably would buy some slugs for if I found them as you never know when you might run across a coyote while squirrel hunting.

Unless you were in danger of starving and have no better weapon available, I would not recommend a 410 for deer. It will get the job done if you are close enough. Some folks could probably kill a deer with their bare hands. I once brought down a big doe, that was wide awake after having been temporarily unconscious from striking her head on a car, by slitting her throat with a 1-1/4" blade key-chain knife. Fortunately, it was brand-new and extremely sharp. I had a much tougher time this past winter finishing off a small button buck in a similar situation with my old Buck 110 lock-blade hunting knife that was badly in need of sharpening after a "busy" season. Just like a sharp blade on a little knife is better, I suppose a little bullet in the right spot is better, but you will definitely run out of energy at about 50 yards with a 410 slug. Thank you for bringing up the 410 however, for it reminded me that I have one and lots of #6's available. That is what I should take out for squirrels this weekend. With all the leafs still on the trees, it will give me much better odds of getting enough for a meal than the .22 that I was planning on using. I don't plan on chasing deer until x-bow opens in the Northern zone in a couple more weeks. We have been hitting the venison so hard the past several weeks to make room for the new stuff in the freezer, that a some squirrel will be a welcome change. With the cold front moving in, and acorns aplenty, the 410/squirrel action should be real good this weekend. Normally, I like to use a .22 for squirrels as it also gives me good marksmanship practice for deer hunting. Shooting deer with a scoped center-fire rifle or crossbow gets as easy as shooting ducks in a barrel after you hone your skills enough on squirrels with the 22. Squirrels provide much more realistic practice than paper targets or cans plus are great eating. Right now it is the eating that concerns me more than the practice (I have had plenty of that this summer with the girls and their bb guns shooting cans), so the 410 it will be. I probably would buy some slugs for if I found them as you never know when you might run across a coyote while squirrel hunting.

That is a very good point on "string jump" that very few NY hunters are aware of. Some of them know enough math to calculate how far a deer can move in the time it takes the arrow to reach it, but have no clue of a deer's sound "danger-zone". Beyond about 40 yards, string jump is a complete non-issue. That might even drop to 30 yards if the deer is upwind in a good blow. 15 -30 yards, is where string jump is a big concern. The sound of a bow releasing it's energy from longer range is a natural sound to a deer, not much different than a bird landing or a branch falling. There have been many times when I have observed deer keep their entire body in the same position for 5 minutes or more. Some examples are when they are eating a favorite food source, like acorns, corn, brassicas, wheat or clover. During the rut I have often seen bucks focusing like a statue on hot does, and have killed more than a few in that scenario, including my 59 yard x-bow buck last season. I don't have a problem with the 100 yard shots if the shooter is confident in his ability and equipment at that range. Personally, I will keep my shots under 50 yards with my current crossbow setup. I know I can keep my bolts on a pie-plate out to 60 yards, but I am not satisfied with the 8" of arrow penetration I got on that buck at 59 yards last year. Had the arrow struck somewhere other than the heart, the story may not have had as happy of an ending. You can read about what others use as an effective range, but real-world experience is the best teacher. Like Clint say's "a man has got to know his limitations" You won't find those in any book or on-line.

I switched to a scope about the same year you did. The year prior, I did take my first deer (a "button-buck), with open sights, using my granddad's Ithaca model 37, 16 ga slug-gun. Looking back, I think I may have actually been aiming at a "twin" running in front of it. I don't think I led that one enough, and the slug hit the close-following deer perfectly thru the front shoulders. It all happened so fast I cant be sure which one I shot at. My uncle, who was with me at the time, still talks about that shot all these years later. The shot definitely contributed to some overconfidence on my part. My luck ran out when I missed a closer shot at a big-antlered, slow moving, buck a few weeks later. I don't know if it was "buck-fever", or if I just did not bring the rear sight up enough and shot over his back. That was the last deer I missed with that gun, since getting a 1-1/2X Weaver mounted on it all those years ago. The following year, I got my first antlered buck with it when he stepped out of the brush, right below my stand. I put the crosshair on his front shoulder, pulled the trigger once and that was all she wrote. That gun/scope combo holds decent groups to a little under 100 yards (aprox 6" dia), using Winchester foster slugs. I took my largest antlered buck ever with it, about 10 years later. My first shot at that one was a bit over a hundred yards. The shot struck him low, breaking a front leg up high. God helped me a bit then as he so often has. The buck had been struck just above the hoof, in an opposite diagonal rear leg about a week prior, which left him with just two good legs. Most folks know that a deer on three legs is nearly as fast as one on four. Two legs is a different story. A lot younger and faster then, I had no trouble closing the range and finishing him with a neck-shot from point-blank range. I never would have taken that initial long shot without that scope, but getting that buck still took some more of that "special" help. I took my second largest-racked buck, again with that same gun/scope at point-blank range, and again with some of that "special" help just a few years ago. My Bible slipped from my hands with about 5 minutes of legal shooting time left. I climbed down to get it with the loaded gun (sorry to the safety police). Immediately upon reaching the patch of brush at the base of the tree, a flock of turkeys landed right on my position. They were the pawns for the wise old buck who thought their superior vision would keep him safe. He got the surprise of his life with that shotgun blast to the neck. I wonder why that Bible slipped from my hands when it did? Coincidence maybe? Roughly a hundred other deer have fallen to that and several other gun/scope combos over the years. I have killed and recovered in the neighborhood of a hundred deer with various gun/scope combos. I have also missed a couple and wounded one that was later killed by a friend. I also lost one that I tracked for a long distance, but was not able to locate until the crows led me to the carcass a week later, half eaten by coyotes. I don't remember all the details of most of them. I have only ever shot at 3 other deer with open sights, since that first miss so long ago. I killed them all. First was a big doe that stepped out of the brush, standing broadside in a shooting lane at about 70 yards. The slug hit her in the neck, killing her instantly (I had aimed for the front shoulder, so it was about a foot off). Second was a nice 8-point that arrived on the scene and stood over a doe I had dropped with my scoped ML about 3 minutes prior, again at about 70 yards. I had my "backup-gun", a 12 ga, Remington 870 with open sights and a short, smoothbore deer barrel up in the stand (same gun used on doe up above). This time my slug hit right where I aimed, on his shoulder blade, putting him down right next to the dead doe. The third one was another somewhat messy kill. The conditions for a scope were bad with a cold rain falling all morning. I was in my warm ground blind armed again with the 870. When the rain stopped, I walked over to and climbed up into a tree stand, overlooking a clover plot. Soon a young buck stepped into clover about a hundred yards out and began munching. I had a nice rest in the stand, and an empty freezer late in the season. I took the shot. The buck looked up, then resumed feeding. I noticed a spot of mud fly beyond the buck where the slug struck so I knew my shot was high. Using the standard "artillery" method, I aimed lower on my second shot, this time seeing mud fly in front of the buck. I had him "bracketed" now, and the third shot struck home, putting him down with a high shoulder hit. Again, not real pretty but the job got done.

Last year was the first that I used gloves while field dressing a deer. The only reason I did it, is my father in law is very concerned about cleanliness, and I was staying in his recently-completed cabin up North. About an hour after I called him on the cell, from the scene of the kill in a marshy creek bottom, he showed up carrying a gallon of water, a bar of soap, and a roll of paper towels. I did not need that stuff with the gloves, and did not have even a drop of blood on my hands after I finished gutting. I still feel bad about abandoning that gallon glass jug back there in the marsh, but we did not have room to carry it the mile or so to his ATV, with me dragging the buck and him carrying my gun and stuff. I attempted to recover it this past Memorial day weekend but the bugs were just too bad then. I will try again in a couple weeks when I am up there with the x-bow. I have to admit that the gloves were nice, and I will probably use them again. The ones I used were fairly tight fitting, blue-rubber coated, white-cloth work gloves. They are much tougher than those 50-pack, cheap nitrile ones. My bullet struck the buck centered on a rib, fracturing it into some sharp splinters. They did not penetrate the glove when I scraped against them. When I got home, I washed the gloves in soapy water and they still look like new. There is always plenty of time for a full clean-up back home, but saving some time cleaning up on the hunt is a great benefit of the gloves. Had I got one drop of blood in that new cabin I doubt if I would be invited to hunt there again.

My vertical bows are collecting dust this year. The time saved practicing has been a big help with the "honey do" list. I already have my vacation scheduled for the x-bow in the Northern zone, at the tail end of archery season and the start of ML. They made my home area in the Southern zone doe-only now, for the first two weeks anyhow. That does not excite me much, considering how much venison we still have left from last season. I will just have to take about a 1 week break with the x-bow, when I return from up North. That will be a good time to get some squirrels, rabbits, and grouse. Bucks will be legal down here after that also, just in time for the peak rut. By then we should have last year's venison all used up. I love it when a plan comes together. Full inclusion for the x-bow would be great, but I can live with the rules like they are now. The different start times in the Northern and Southern zones make it much more bearable. Speaking of bears, I hope to get a crack at one of them with the x-bow in a couple weeks up in the Northern zone. I am just hoping the bear will run away rather than at me after taking the bolt. That is a bigger concern with a x-bow than a vertical due to the much slower reload time.

I have only hunted deer in one other state (Colorado) and I much prefer NY. The high desert of the Rockies does nothing for me as far as scenery, and cant touch the absolute beauty of NY's Adirondacks. I did learn first-hand that whitetails are a lot tastier than mule deer anyhow. I seldom have trouble securing enough venison in NY to last my family until the following season. I do love the cold during hunting season, and the snow. Not needing a walk-in cooler most years, keeping bugs and hogs away, and improved tracking are all big plusses. There is no place I would rather live or hunt. Whenever I travel, to any of those other states for any reason, I appreciate what we have here in NY more.