Breaking news . . .

[jr.deerslayer]

The guy killed his one intended victim. He then fled a block or so where he was confronted by cops who were on the scene practically instantly. He then drew his weapon again and tried to shoot the police. They returned fire and killed him. It was in this exchange that the rest of the people were wounded.

And these are trained officers of the law.

Yeah, more people with guns on crowded streets is the answer. Srsly.

Are you kidding, have you watched a video where cops had to shoot someone. If not it normally goes something like this... 18 shots fired but no one seriously injured. I have seen one empty his 9 mm twice before hitting a car- hit deer. My dad was so embarrassed he asked the cop if he wanted him to do it for him.

[Sogaard]

They have not confirmed whether the others were shot by police or by the gunman during the exchange. So until they do the ballistic testing we won't know.

Correct.

However, if the police commissioner is already putting it out there that some of the casualties may be from police bullets, he has to have good inclination that its going to play out that way.

[Sogaard]

Are you kidding, have you watched a video where cops had to shoot someone. If not it normally goes something like this... 18 shots fired but no one seriously injured. I have seen one empty his 9 mm twice before hitting a car- hit deer. My dad was so embarrassed he asked the cop if he wanted him to do it for him.

Ok, so you're saying people who walk off the street and into the Texas Walmart and walk out with a handgun will be more or less accurate than that?

[steve863]

They have not confirmed whether the others were shot by police or by the gunman during the exchange. So until they do the ballistic testing we won't know.

This just proves that all hell would break loose even more if the average joe on the street started firing away in a situation like that. If trained cops can't get the job done properly, I honestly have very little faith in just any old joe pulling out the heat and dropping the killer with one shot between the eyes. Those things may happen in our dreams of being superheroes, but rarely if ever in real life.

I've been watching the Ken Burns PBS series on WWII and it has some absolutely amazing footage of soldiers just before they were sent in to invade France. The terror on those boys faces was unbelievable. Some were clinging to their rifles and rosaries while in the amphibious vehicle that brought them ashore. If you think it is easy being cool in a mortal situation, I suggest you watch some of that footage. Absolutely gut wrenching!

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I understand your point Steve but, if someone draws down on me I would much rather be armed than unarmed. It is that simple.

[Sogaard]

If I happen to be behind the person that just drew down on you on a crowded street, me and the 10 people next to me hope you aren't. Its that simple too.

Side note, do people draw guns on you often? Remind me not to ever visit Rush, NY.

[BizCT]

If the people were in fact, shot by NYPD, will they get a big chunk of $ from NYPD? I'd take a bullet grazing for a few million.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

No but you do have to realize the whole world isn't a crowded NY city street. You really should get out more

[steve863]

I do hear you too, Culver. I just think way too many people think that everything would work out in their favor in a bad situation like that. Most never find out and have unwarranted fears, but with virtually NO training required for people to own or carry guns in this nation, I just don't see good outcomes in all cases. If people had some good training then I would have a bit more confidence.

Edited August 24, 2012 by steve863

[Sogaard]

Yes, but this thread is based on the incident that happened in NYC this morning and NYC's restrictive gun laws. You can't now just magically pretend we aren't talking about the city when it suits you.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

And I would do everything in my power to be able to carry there. You are very free to choose a victim status. I don't. I can't wait to see if this was a legally owned weapon.

And just for the record I think you were the one that took the discussion out of NYC with your Texas comparison

Edited August 24, 2012 by Culvercreek hunt club

[virgil]

I understand your point Steve but, if someone draws down on me I would much rather be armed than unarmed. It is that simple.

This is a fair point. But, up until now, all of the posts on this thread have been about 'armed citizens' saving the day, not defending themselves. What many have advocated is more like vigilante justice than self defense. Big difference and a much greater potential to make a bad situation exponentially worse as far as I'm concerned.

[Sogaard]

Well, since you can't actually walk into any sort of store in NYC and walk out with a handgun....

The poster I was addressing stated that trained law enforcement officers were terrible shots. I was just pointing out that if people who are professionally trained in firearms can be that bad, what about people who have access to guns without any training at all? I apologize for not clarifying my point.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I understand your point Steve but, if someone draws down on me I would much rather be armed than unarmed. It is that simple.

This is a fair point. But, up until now, all of the posts on this thread have been about 'armed citizens' saving the day, not defending themselves. What many have advocated is more like vigilante justice than self defense. Big difference and a much greater potential to make a bad situation exponentially worse as far as I'm concerned.

I don't think any area is suitable for an OK corral style shoot out. Law enforcement is best left to ...well ..law enforcemnt. But it is very likely, that is you are confronted by a person with a gun it will be an up close matter and the law enforcement are not there. Unfortuantely our Law enforcement spend a lot of time in the investigation aspect of a shooting. It is over by then. If all of us NY Hunting members were in an auditorium for a meeting and and armed gunman barged in and opened fire, do we hope someone is carrying or are we glad no one is? It is easy to say we can't afford colateral damage but people are falling with every shot fromhe gunman.

If you are standing the with a pistol and the gunman is shooting and you have your pistol, there are members in the background....he is shooting and people are falling. do you shoot?

Tough questions and I really don't think there is a "right" answer that fits everyone. BUT there aslo isn't a "right" answer that should be imposed on everyoe either.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Well, since you can't actually walk into any sort of store in NYC and walk out with a handgun....

The poster I was addressing stated that trained law enforcement officers were terrible shots. I was just pointing out that if people who are professionally trained in firearms can be that bad, what about people who have access to guns without any training at all? I apologize for not clarifying my point.

Understood,. I have to say, at that time of day with the crowd I am surprised the count isn't higher.

[WNYBuckHunter]

If I happen to be behind the person that just drew down on you on a crowded street, me and the 10 people next to me hope you aren't. Its that simple too.

Side note, do people draw guns on you often? Remind me not to ever visit Rush, NY.

You honestly think a handgun round is going to go through 10 people?

[Sogaard]

Yeah, I'm sure if the shooter had been trying to kill multiple people, it would have been far worse. It would be hard to fire a weapon in that area of the city and *not* hit someone. I fear that point is going to be proven when they start doing the forensics on who actually shot who.

[Sogaard]

You honestly think a handgun round is going to go through 10 people?

Not at all. I simply meant if there is a crowd of people behind your target, they are going to have bullets coming their way. And that isn't fun, imho.

[steve863]

Don't mean to make light of a bad situation, but they say the shooter was a women's handbag designer who was laid off last year and came back to shoot his supervisor. Couldn't this girlieman just hit his old supervisor over the head with a handbag or something instead of shooting him and others?? OK, No more jokes on this thread.

[WNYBuckHunter]

gottcha

[Doewhacker]

Don't mean to make light of a bad situation, but they say the shooter was a women's handbag designer who was laid off last year and came back to shoot his supervisor. Couldn't this girlieman just hit his old supervisor over the head with a handbag or something instead of shooting him and others?? OK, No more jokes on this thread.

I'm glad you wrote that and not me, I was thinking that though. No shocker we were thinking along the same lines.

I could add a bunch of jokes but wont out of respect for the injured.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Doewhacker

[ELMER J. FUDD]

I'm glad you wrote that and not me, I was thinking that though. No shocker we were thinking along the same lines.

I could add a bunch of jokes but wont out of respect for the injured.

As I've said before, you guys are related. You may not know it, but you are.

[steve863]

As I've said before, you guys are related. You may not know it, but you are.

I've been told that I have a cousin named Horatio who was a goofball and then one day went off to upstate NY and was never heard from again. Could it possibly be Doe????

[Doewhacker]

I never told you I was adopted and my birth name was Horatio...cousin its you!

[First-light]

As I've said before, you guys are related. You may not know it, but you are.

They are brothers.

Twin bucks born back in 1965, makes them the oldest, ornery bucks around!! lol