AR question

[SteveB]

Me?

Edited September 21, 2012 by SteveB

[jjb4900]

if you don't agree with the antler restrictions, do what I did last year...the button buck that would have normally got a pass got a ride home in the back of my truck....my own personal F.U. to antler estrictions.

[tj1187]

The AR rules are BS. Look at the trail camera thread seems to be quite a few mature bucks to go around.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

if you don't agree with the antler restrictions, do what I did last year...the button buck that would have normally got a pass got a ride home in the back of my truck....my own personal F.U. to antler estrictions.

And that must have made you feel like the top hunter in the area. To kill a baby, The dumbest deer in the woods.... I guess it goes without saying that you dont have what it takes to kill a mature buck or atleast one that makes the slot.

[SteveB]

I saw nothing in his post where he was out to prove being a top hunter.

I pass on anything I feel is less then 3 1/2, but absolutely against mandatory ar here in 7J.

Should they ever put it in here, every antler less tag I have will be filled with a button in protest.

[Doc]

How did we get from shooting the wrong deer is an accident or mistake to the DEC is forcing something on hunters that can't count to 5...I think you're making the 3 on a side rule way more complicated than it really is.. counting 5 points (the benchmark for the biggest deer you can't shoot) is not that difficult ... and the law wasn't made to pick out a buck that satisfies you.. it was made to protect most yearling bucks. If we're not protecting yearling bucks then I guess just identifying it as a buck would be enough... if you don't like the 3 on a side rule for yearling buck protection... then offer up another standard to achieve the goal. Otherwise that is the system.. like it or not. Without the restriction (which is minimal at best) you have no yearling buck protection... using the short comings of hunters isn't a good argument, in my opinion, against an AR to protect young bucks... especially something as simple as counting 3 points on a side... I understand that you don't agree... but I just don't see the complexity

and, you don't have to be jacked up on AR's to follow the law

Look, you are the one that is claiming that anyone who makes a misinterpretation of what tines are on what beam is akin to some kind of poacher. I simply am a bit more realistic and honest in that I have seen situations where that 3rd tine turned out to be on the wrong antler. And yes, I do say that there will be mistakes, and those mistakes will cause some waste of deer. That is the extent of my comments. I am not posing any alternatives or even saying that those kinds of unfortunate mishaps are a reason to nix ARs. But I am realistic and honest enough to agree with those that say that ARs will result in deer being shot and left. And I am not willing to pretend that it is always the hunter's fault.

[nyantler]

Look, you are the one that is claiming that anyone who makes a misinterpretation of what tines are on what beam is akin to some kind of poacher. I simply am a bit more realistic and honest in that I have seen situations where that 3rd tine turned out to be on the wrong antler. And yes, I do say that there will be mistakes, and those mistakes will cause some waste of deer. That is the extent of my comments. I am not posing any alternatives or even saying that those kinds of unfortunate mishaps are a reason to nix ARs. But I am realistic and honest enough to agree with those that say that ARs will result in deer being shot and left. And I am not willing to pretend that it is always the hunter's fault.

Ok if we're being realistic there will be deer shot and left... If we're being honest it will have nothing to do with AR's and will always be the hunters fault... not unfortunate mishaps.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I saw nothing in his post where he was out to prove being a top hunter.

I pass on anything I feel is less then 3 1/2, but absolutely against mandatory ar here in 7J.

Should they ever put it in here, every antler less tag I have will be filled with a button in protest.

Hope that gets ya off. What a joke!!!

[SteveB]

Glad I could amuse you - now I can sleep.

Thanks.

[Guns&ReligionCop]

I saw nothing in his post where he was out to prove being a top hunter.

I pass on anything I feel is less then 3 1/2, but absolutely against mandatory ar here in 7J.

Should they ever put it in here, every antler less tag I have will be filled with a button in protest.

What would shooting a button bucks accomplish? Thats the area you are hunting so that deer won't get any larger for you the following year. Cutting off your nose to spite your face. If you are shooting 3 year old deer or older you don't have to worry about antler restrictions because they will have a massive rack by that age.

[Doc]

Ok if we're being realistic there will be deer shot and left... If we're being honest it will have nothing to do with AR's and will always be the hunters fault... not unfortunate mishaps.

Well, the reason anyone would walk (run) away and leave the illegal deer would be a reaction to having broken the law. So technically it would be something that wouldn't have happened without the change to ARs. And I still am honest enough to admit that such a thing absolutely could happen by mistake.

[Paula]

What would shooting a button bucks accomplish? Thats the area you are hunting so that deer won't get any larger for you the following year. Cutting off your nose to spite your face. If you are shooting 3 year old deer or older you don't have to worry about antler restrictions because they will have a massive rack by that age.

some people do not care about the racks and there is nothing wrong with that

[jjb4900]

It accomplishes putting meat in the freezer, not everyone cares about shooting a buck with large antler's. If that's the only deer I take, that's fine with me.....it's only a problem for those who want bigger bucks. I don't see a difference between a spike or a small 6pt that meets the restriction criteria..I have to shake my head at the guy who criticizes someone for taking a spike and then thinks they accomplished something by shooting a small basket racked 6 or 8 that I can cover with my hat.

[jjb4900]

And where I hunt, I think there is a need to build on the quantity of deer before we start working on the quality...I would rather pass the doe that may be carrying 2 or 3 fawns for next year. I understand that many of you probably don't have the quantity problem and your opinions are valid because you can pick and choose....unfortunately without knowing each person's situation, we only base our opinions on our own hunting areas.

[JimmyDaSavage]

I have hunted nothing but public land my whole life. I hunt for a lot of reasons including family bonding but most important the meat. I am not a horny guy at all and have no issues shooting at a doe if I am even lucky enough to see one.

[jjb4900]

And for all you who support antler restrictions,I see the benefit, but how many of you have the luxury of owning your own land, see plenty of deer and don't have to travel 200 miles to hunt? all these factors must play a part in how you think, and in turn, play a part in how I, and many other's look at things......and then there's the meat hunter -vs trophy hunter mentality,

[Guns&ReligionCop]

some people do not care about the racks and there is nothing wrong with that

Even so a meat hunter should want an older animal because of the size difference. A yearly buck weighs what 130 pds give or take and you take about 20 pds of meats off of it. A 3 year old buck will be over 200 lbs and give 50lbs of meat

[Guns&ReligionCop]

And for all you who support antler restrictions,I see the benefit, but how many of you have the luxury of owning your own land, see plenty of deer and don't have to travel 200 miles to hunt? all these factors must play a part in how you think, and in turn, play a part in how I, and many other's look at things......and then there's the meat hunter -vs trophy hunter mentality,

I hunt state gameland in PA with Ar's and State gameland in NY without. In my experience its benficial to both type of hunters. Trophy hunters and meat hunters benefit because the deer are larger both meat wise and horn wise. After about 3 years of Ar's in PA I saw a tremendous increase in the quality of deer. In between the 2 states I have 7 tags, so I get plenty of meat. Thats 4 does alone for meat so I rather not shoot a little buck that antlers mean nothing to me and use the excuse that its for meat since I have plenty of doe tags for the meat. Let that deer go another year and it will be something that I'm intrested in or let a kid whack it.

[jjb4900]

Guns&ReligionCop.....I hear you, but if I was to take 4 does off the land I hunt, that would set the herd back substantially........like I said earlier, my area needs to establish quantity before they work on quality and as I also stated, I understand each area is vastly different.

[Guns&ReligionCop]

Guns&ReligionCop.....I hear you, but if I was to take 4 does off the land I hunt, that would set the herd back substantially........like I said earlier, my area needs to establish quantity before they work on quality and as I also stated, I understand each area is vastly different.

That makes sense and it might not benefit you for that reason in the short term but after a couple of years and you start knocking the those bigger deer the amount of meat will over whelm you. Last year my buck literally gave me as more meet than 2 does. Now the catch to that story was I got that monster here in Putnam NY without antler restrictions. It's better to be lucky than good :-P

[jjb4900]

Don't get me wrong, I don't go out to shoot small deer and don't do so every year, but when it's the last week of late muzzleloader, and I've passed up deer bow and rifle, I wan't to be able to get a deer regardless.....I've been at it for 30 plus years and have gotten my share of nice deer and am aware of the amount of meat off different size deer.

[Guns&ReligionCop]

Don't get me wrong, I don't go out to shoot small deer and don't do so every year, but when it's the last week of late muzzleloader, and I've passed up deer bow and rifle, I wan't to be able to get a deer regardless.....I've been at it for 30 plus years and have gotten my share of nice deer and am aware of the amount of meat off different size deer.

The later the season, the lower my expectations. My dad 2 years ago passed a few beauties during archery and ended his season with a deer last day of rifle that had 4 points on one side and a spike on the other.. I respect what you are saying and agree with you but a lot of other people don't follow that and is where antler restrictions help.

[SteveB]

I have hunted nothing but public land my whole life. I hunt for a lot of reasons including family bonding but most important the meat. I am not a horny guy at all and have no issues shooting at a doe if I am even lucky enough to see one.

Protest - nothing more.

Ar is not needed where I hunt and would have little real effect.

I don't shoot younger bucks because I am looking for bigger racks, but because I like seeing the older's ones.

But I have no desire to be telling another hunter what he can shoot just to maybe make it easier for me.

In fact, if I saw mature bucks every time out, it would be like having prime rib every night - not as special after awhile.

A few of the AR supporters are genuinely motivate by the desire to see a more balanced age structure. But I feel the overwhelming majority who clamor for it statewide would never be heard from if they didn't equate it with making it easier to get a bigger rack/more points. For every AR supporter you hear talk about waiting for and taking a 3.5 or older buck you will hear 20 or more talk about waiting for a 6 pt or better with no concern about it's age. Somehow it's bad to shoot a spike or 4 pt that are 2.5 or less, but OK to shoot a 6 or 8 even though it may be only a 1.5.

So if AR is forced into my area where little real difference will result, I will legally protest it.

Educate for the right reasons - don't legislate for the wrong ones.

[jjb4900]

anyone remember the old train of thought that the small inferior racks bucks should be culled out to allow the larger superior bucks breed the does?...boy how things change.

[jjb4900]

well said SteveB.........my thoughts exactly.