Interpretation of hunting hours

[sampotter]

Guys, my deepest apologies. What I wrote, was not quite worded right, obviously. It certainly was NOT an insinuation that anyone did anything wrong.

It pretty much goes back to a situation where a friend of mine took a deer, in the woods, and, yes-it was darker in the woods, than in the adjoining field. He was stopped by DEC-he was dragging it out after sunset-and the DEC officer asked when he got it. When he said "It was just getting dark in the woods", he was ticketed, even though he had shot it during legal shooting time. The officer assumed that it was taken after legal shooting time, only because of that statement. That's all I was trying to say.

As for the watch thing, I was actually asked about not having a watch on, by ENCON (I had left it in the car by mistake), because he stated there was no way I could tell when sunset would be without one. I actually have two friends who got tickets for "hunting after legal hours", simply because they exited the woods mere minutes after sunset. The officer stated that "you have to be out of the woods by sunset".

This is an offshoot thread from the bowhunting harvest thread. In response to the situations above I hope the friends fought the tickets in court. In the first example the hunter was ticketed based on a relative term with no evidence either way that would say exactly when the deer was shot.

In the second example there is no statement in the NY hunting regulations that says you have to be out of the woods by sunset. That would also mean that you can't enter the woods before sunrise? The only exception would be if you were hunting a state park and it had its own additional rules. I believe to be legally "hunting" it means you have an arrow knocked or ammunition in your gun, but I may be remembering this from a different state's regulations.

[bubba]

as I just posted in the other thread, you do not have to be out of the woods by sunset. However your bow has to be disabled and your gun unloaded. By disabled, it needs to be unstrung if a recurve or a locking device so the bow can not be pulled back if a compound. A simple remedy is a padlock around the stings. Regardless of the time if you do not do these things after sunset,the intent is there to be hunting, and you can be ticketed.

[sampotter]

Bubba- can you show me where in the regs it says the bow has to be disabled? This is the first I have heard this but I may have missed it.

[growalot]

Bubba ..this statement has NOTHING to do with you personally

I have been to 6..my 2 and both my kids 2 each ...hunter safety courses...and not once do I remember any instructor cover having to do anything entering or leaving the woods after hours...just that your gun has to be unloaded before entering the road right of way definitely no one mentioned locking your bow strings...perhaps the DEC should re enforce that issue with new instructors...is it on the test and I just for got?

[bubba]

I tis not up to the instructors to point that out. We teach safety. The dec officer that comes to my classes covers this. If the gun is loaded after legal hours, you are hunting or the intent is there, and you can be ticketed. I was simply conveying on here what he tells my classes. If your bow is not disabled in some way, the intent is there. buy a 2 dollar padlock put it around the string. Then there in never any question. Unload your gun at the end of legal hunting hours, there is never any question. If you came in front of me and said well the gun was loaded, but I had no intention of shooting a deer after hours, I would be suspect, and fine you. If you came in front of me and said yes you got out late, but the gun was unloaded, I am going to dismiss. You do not have to pull the trigger to be hunting after hours. You are walking n the woods inhabited by deer with a loaded gun after hours. That constitutes intent, and you are hunting. .

[sampotter]

I think we (myself and growalot) are both curious about the disabled/padlock thing on a bow. I seriously have never heard or read that. Not having an arrow on the string is the same as not having your gun loaded.

[phade]

Some states have rules about bows being locked in transit. A few consider placing your release around the cables as being unfirable.

[Paulie]

So if your gun has to be unloaded after legal hunting time.....how does one go about hunting coyotes at night?

[bubba]

As I said it is not a law it is a recommendation form a local dec officer. I would prefer to buy a 2 buck lock and have it on to prove there was no intent than to be shook down for a while and get a ticket.

[growalot]

Well then some one needs to explain this to me......

Furbearer Hunting at Night

You may hunt furbearers at night, with or without a light, as follows:

• You may use a light, but you may not hunt from any motor vehicle, including an ATV. All laws pertaining to the use of a spotlight and firearm apply.
  
• If hunting without a light, the use of a light gathering ("starlight") scope is legal on any firearm listed below.
  
• You may use any handgun or bow.
  
• You may use a shotgun loaded with shot (any size).
  
• You may use a rifle chambered in any cartridge, except that you may not possess a centerfire rifle afield, during the day or night, during any open season for deer in areas where rifles are prohibited for deer hunting.
  

[bubba]

what is there to interpret. So you want to say when coming out you were coyote hunting. Read the part about a centerfire rifle during deer season. Call the dec and ask them.

[growalot]

Bubba I did read the center fired rifle part...and it states.....

you may not possess a centerfire rifle afield, during the day or night, during any open season for deer in areas where rifles are prohibited for deer hunting....

But if your in a shot gun season only area for deer...that makes sense...Either way your State trooper needs to read up on the laws better...just saying

No I don't want to say anything...for there is no reason if I carry a legitimate license while afield I should HAVE to say anything...

Edited October 19, 2012 by growalot

[bubba]

what state trooper? First you tell me I should be teaching this in class. Then when I say the DEC officer does and then you say he is wrong and call him a trooper. This is way off the legal hunting hours question, but you do what you feel is right. I was merely explaining the interpretation of the law by a justice of the peace such as myself if you are ticketed. If you do not mind going to court fighting ticket and spending the time and money have at it. I am simply explaining intent. Good luck

Edited October 19, 2012 by bubba

[growalot]

My bad sorry meant DEC officer...was reading another post where someone mentioned a St. trooper...stuck in my head...

Now as far as fighting a ticket...I did not write the law...and it's there in blk and wht plain and simple actually...

Unless some fool comes out of the woods and says ..hey I was in there SHOOTING DEER there is absolutely no grounds to even think about ticketing a person for having a legal weapon in the woods during a legal hunting season where animals are allowed to be shot at night PERIOD...and holy cow here we go

You as a justice should be VERY clear on that...

By the way I NEVER said YOU should be teaching this ...I said ...The DEC should address it with new instructors...don't pick a fight...I said this was not a personal thing with you

Edited October 19, 2012 by growalot

[bubba]

it was a suggestion by a dec officer. It takes all the question out of it. A simple cheap fix.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I coyote hunt on the way in and out.

[bubba]

good luck proving that. Do you carry the proper calls and the like? Just saying you might have a hard time proving that other wise.

[growalot]

Actually you have it a tad backwards...least we forget.." INNOCENT until PROVEN GUILTY"...it is the officers and courts responsibility to prove their case...unless there is a witness to a person shooting at a DEER..or a wouded or dead DEER recovered ...there is NO case

[bubba]

yes there is let me explain again. All you need is intent. A loaded gun or a nocked arrow is intent. If you carry a gun around when spotlighting deer, and it is not properly secured in the trunk or in a case even if you do not have ammunition there is intent and you will get a ticket and you will lose trust me. But as I stated earlier you do what you feel is right. I have explained the obvious about three times now

[growalot]

Wow...I just give up...really it's sad and laughable at the same time....

[Culvercreek hunt club]

good luck proving that. Do you carry the proper calls and the like? Just saying you might have a hard time proving that other wise.

Is it a law requiring I carry a call to predator hunt? News to me. The burden of proof isn't on me to prove I am doing it correctly. If I am in the woods during gun I have a loaded gun. period.

[boo711]

In your hunting regulations book there is a sunrise & sunset chart. if you are in the woods before or after those times with a loaded weapon it is illegal. i have a buddy who got a ticket a few years ago on opening day of southern zone gun seasonfor taking a deer before "sunrise". "sunrise" in the area we were hunting according to the chart was like 7:02 or something. he shot deer at like 6:50. he got a ticket. that chart was what dec officer used. he was nice though. let my buddy keep his 8 pointer

[growalot]

OK ...Let me just say this one more time....The DEC officers need to learn the laws they are suppose to up hold and You as hunters need to know them as well...ECO just love ppl that don't know the laws...it is EASY money for the state

IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO HAVE A LOADED WEAPON IN THE WOODS AFTER DARK...

UNLESS

YOU HAVE A CENTER FIRE IN A SHOTGUN ONLY DEER ZONE..

If I have the proper license and want to wonder around in my woods at night with a loaded shot gun or even my bow...and I do not have a wounded or dead deer out there.....I have the legal right to do so...It is illegal to SHOOT a deer or SHOOT AT a deer before or after legal hours...and a ECO can pound salt if he thinks of giving me a ticket...

[landtracdeerhunter]

This is another one of those "Gray Areas." I can see a ticket coming for state revenue.

[landtracdeerhunter]

And by hunting definition, anytime u disturb or worry wildlife, your hunting. Kinda throws a fly in the ointment doesn't it.