T/C Triumph & Blackhorn 209 Problems!!!

[HUNT6246]

I'm not new to muzzleloading, having picked up my first one around 1976. But, this one has me frustrated! I bought a T/C Triumph Bone Collector and have been trying to work up a load for it. I've heard that BH209 is supposed to be so clean burning that you can fire shot after shot without the need to clean. I've tried several weights (240 - 290 gr.) and manufacturers of bullets and after only one or two shots, I can't get another load down the barrel without wiping down the bore. The only slug I can load one after another is the Powerbelts and they don't group too bad. I'm shooting 110 gr. (volumetric equiv.) or 77 gr. by weight. I have heard that many of the T/C's have very tight bores. I went to the Harvester sabots after hearing that they did load better in tight bores. I found I did have good accuracy (about 1" at 100 yds.) with the 250 gr. Barnes Boattail bullets with the yellow Harvester sabot. But, I still have to wipe the barrel at least every other shot. Wiping seems to work better than a brush or bore snake. My son has had similar problems with his T/C Prohunter and 777 powder. He can only shoot the T/C brand bullets. Has anyone had similar problems? If so, what was the fix? Thanks!

[bubba]

777 powder is very dirty. You will develop a crud ring near the breech plug making a second load sometimes hard. I switched to blackhorn 209, and shot my tc impact 15 times without swabbing the barrel. I too bought my first ml in 76. I am using 100 grains by volume of blackhorn 209, Harvestor crush rib sabot and 240 grain lead .429 bullet. I am getting great accuracyt 1 to 1/2 inches at 100 yards off the bench.

[Tio1]

I shoot the triumph and I send a wet patch down after every shot. Loads like a bitch - the power belts load easier but are all over target. T/C shockwaves 250 grain with 2 777 shoot the best but you gotta wet patch. PS - clean well before storing away for the season and grease breach plug or it will seize-up.

[erussell]

If a speed breech is seizing up you have a serious problem. Mine never even has powder residue on the threads. The locking rings should prevent this and the extra deep threads should prevent lockup. Might want to check the rings, they might be bent. With that said I always still grease the breech plug just because I have grease and it cant hurt. I use 150 grain 777 pellets and 240 grain XTP's and can shoot clover leafs all day long at 100 yrds off a bench. But I swab in between every shot. Also might want to check your primers maybe they dont burn hot enough.

Edited November 15, 2012 by erussell

[Tio1]

thanks for the info - i have terrible time removing breach after storing away from previous season. After removing and cleaning, able to remove with fingers - not tools. do they sell replacement plugs? thanks again

[HUNT6246]

Well, it helps a bit to know that others are having the same problems as I am. What are you fellows swabbing the barrel with? Spit patch, lightly oiled or something else? I've lightly greased the thread on my breach plug with 'Never- Seize' but it really makes a mess if you have to pull the plug and pour out the loose powder. Are you using something else & is it any less messy? Are any of you carrying spare 'O-rings' for the breach plug; if so where did you get them?

[phade]

I've shot quite a few in a row through my Vortek UL with BH209 and never really had much issue with loading. I think once i got up to 10 shots...just to see at the range. And it loaded quite well, although the accuracy started to fall off a bit.

You seem to have tried everything I would have, including the harvester sabots. They do in fact load easy as can be.

Might just be the real tight tolerances.

[WNYBuckHunter]

My Encore has to be cleaned after every 3 shots with the BH209, or I have a really hard time getting the 4th one down the barrel. It does leave less residue than 777 pellets do, but not really by that much. Accuracy on the 2nd and 3rd shot is way better though. Heres a pic I took of a patch I ran after 2 shots of 777 and after 2 shots of BH209. You tell me which is which....

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I shoot 777 in my Encore. I can load 3 shots 250 gr TC Shockwaves. the 4th won't go without way too much effort. the difference between shot 1 and shot #2 is 4" of additional drop. SHot #3 drops an additional 3" is I don't clean. I think it is important to do that exercise because if you need a quick follow up you don't want to take the tiem to swab.

I know 777 are dirtier but I just really like the conveinience fo the pellets.

[HUNT6246]

What is everyone swabbing with?? Spit, Oil, other??

[phade]

I shoot 777 in my Encore. I can load 3 shots 250 gr TC Shockwaves. the 4th won't go without way too much effort. the difference between shot 1 and shot #2 is 4" of additional drop. SHot #3 drops an additional 3" is I don't clean. I think it is important to do that exercise because if you need a quick follow up you don't want to take the tiem to swab.

I know 777 are dirtier but I just really like the conveinience fo the pellets.

Wow, I couldn't remember how bad my drop or L/R was and so I checked it tonight. I shoot 250 gr. SSTs and 90 gr volume of BH209...I fired, loaded, fired, loaded, and fired without a rest or cooldown and no swabbing. Shot 2 was 1/2" to the right. Shot 3 was 1/2" low of Shot 2. No complaints from me on that!

I couldn't imagine having that tight of a tolerance you have to fight for a third shot.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I shoot the SSTs as well with 100gr vol of 209. 2nd shot is 2" below the first, 3rd is just below the 2nd at 100 yards.

[WNYBuckHunter]

What is everyone swabbing with?? Spit, Oil, other??

I use this stuff called Barrel Blaster from CVA. Its probably just soapy water that I pay a few bucks for lol. Whatever it is, it works great.

[Tio1]

shot five rounds through the tc triumph @ 65 yds after mounting scope. All shots were close but not as tight as I want. Wet patch after each shot and let barrel cool before the next. Shooting 2 777 w .250 shockwave. Any ideas?? Think its my junk Bushnell sport view 3x9. Good luck Sat

[WNYBuckHunter]

The best way to work on accuracy is to use loose powder instead of pellets, you can adjust by much smaller increments.

[HUNT6246]

Tio1 - I once had a Bushnell Banner scope that came on a gun. It had so much parallax, you couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it. I got soured on Bushnell products after that - perhaps unfairly but I still treat many of their products with caution. Check your scope for parallax, that could be your problem. If so, you might want to try another scope.

[Tio1]

thanks hunt6246 - I'm going to break down and buy a decent scope next yr

[Daveboone]

I bought a TC Triumph two years ago, after having shot ML (preferring black bowder as a powder) for many years. I was very exasperated working up a load, working with initially T/c sabots and pellets. Shots all over the place, I replaced the scope (one of the new redfields) and 1/2d the size off the groups...replaced with a NIkon Prostaff.

The groups were acceptable, but this year I went back to the drawing board. I switched to 777 powder, and the groups again shrank - 100grains.

Then I switched to 245 power belts, and the group stayed the same. I then moved up to the 295 grain aero tipped power belts, and shot clover leafs at 75 yards. I was content with that. With 777, I just run a dry patch between rounds and dry fire a primer. uP to 5 shots, I dont notice any real increase in crud, but at 5 I run a wet patch, then a couple dry, then dry fire.

[SteveB]

What brand primers are you guys using with the BH209?

Requires a hot primer - CCI and Federal (I believe) are the hottest.

Can make a huge difference in grouping, cleaning and ease of followup shots.

[Jeremy K]

I switched to Blackhorn last year,100 g with 300g shockwave and federal primers in my Apex . I push a brush and then a clean patch between every shot ,i like to shoot the the gun as if im sitting in the stand waiting for the "one".I figure if i hunt with a clean barrel i should sight it in with a clean barrel. I did buy the BH breech plug for the apex before i shot it so i cant compare to the stock brech plug.

[HUNT6246]

I'm shooting CCI 209 magnums for primers. My son tried the Winchester 209's in his ProHunter and couldn't get the gun to close & fire. We called T/C about it and they recommended that he go to the CCI 209M as well.

[bubba]

In my impact, I shoot regular winchester 209's no ignition problems. When I shot my sidekick, I used winchester 777 primers, and i went off every time also. But the sidekick replacement plug was designed for bh 209. It has an o-ring at the base of the primer pocket that seals the breech plug causing no blow back. How much blow back is everyone seeing? In my impact the primers come out as clean as they went in. But around the firing pin is always dirty. With the sidekick with the o-ring, no blow back at all

[Jeremy K]

I was seeing what i thought was to much blow by with my stock breech plug usisng the white hot pellets , the BH breech plug fits so much better and has reduced the blow by to null , i haven't checked it but from my experience i would say it has .002 -.003 press on the primer which seals nicely and doesn't distort the primer housing.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I run the Federal primers with minimal blow back in the speed breech of my Encore.

[ser20]

I shoot the TC Triumph and use Winchester 777 209 primer, 3 pellets of Hodgdon's 777 powder pushing a 250gr TC Shockwave. I think the combination works well as holes touch at 100 yards. Two shots are all I get though. Need to swab with bore solvent and wipe the breach plug after the 2nd. Three shots and the rod bends trying to ram the sabot down. I see no drop at 100 yards with the second shot like others have. I havent tried firing a primer in between shots though, worth a try.