Has the idea been approached

[nyantler]

this is the problem with this country. Just like the nazi roadblocks in the southwest, just do it and conform to what the government wants. This is America, the land of the free. If you want I take the risk of not wearing your seatbelt, or not wearing blaze orange, then that should be your decision. I'm sick of all these laws that take the freedom from the people, and I'm sick of all the ignorant people that just conform because it's the easy way out. Stand up for your rights as an American for once, you'd be surprised how much power the people actually have.

You do know that bitching on a forum and standing up for your freedom are two dofferent things? Although I'm one of those that believes there are too many laws... having no laws is not freedom, it's anarchy and no free society will last long with total anarchy and no laws to protect your freedoms.

[New York Hillbilly]

Hey Grizz I just wanted to make a point on what you said. I agree with your statement that "people that are gonig to make stupid mistakes in life can't be avoided... in anything", and those I say are called accidents.

On the other hand, a person who deliberately aims a gun at something they think is, or might be, or probably is, or I thought it was, or oh please let be, a deer, and pulls the trigger is a dangerous idiot. I don't care how desperate, excited , if there was low light, no light, fog, snow, rain, or if the person shot at was in full camo, head to toe brown carharts or blaze orange, or whatever other excuse someone might come up with.

A person who aims at anything and pulls the trigger, no matter what the target is, without "knowing" it "is" what it "is", and causes damage to another person or another's property, should go directly to jail and stay there. That is not an accident as far as I'm concerned. It is negligent, reckless, stupid, and a criminal act.

[arrow nocker]

I vote no to half hour before.Maybe 15 mins.But on a cloudy day like this morning i could see half hour before but not like i could at sunrise.It was still pretty dark with all the cloud cover.If they make it 30 mins before people will be shooting at 45 mins before in those conditions.

Its kind of like the 85 mph speed limit in Texas.Just a matter of time before they say "what have we done"?When people are dying from doing 95 mph cause they are used to doing 10 over the limit.

[Grizz1219]

We can't legislate or stop stupid accidents... Also... The cloudy day comment is another judgement call... The state is trying to legislate sportsmenship and ethics... it's impossible.. but in trying to accomplish this, it's preventing good hunters from hunting 1 hour a day and the ones breaking the laws are getting no punishment...

[arrow nocker]

We can't legislate or stop stupid accidents... Also... The cloudy day comment is another judgement call... The state is trying to legislate sportsmenship and ethics... it's impossible.. but in trying to accomplish this, it's preventing good hunters from hunting 1 hour a day and the ones breaking the laws are getting no punishment...

ya so lets just make it 30 mins early so that the shooter can't see what is behind their taget cause its too cloudy.But they shoot any way cause it is legal.It is sunrise for a reason.Why is it everyone thinks DEC is out to take from them.You loose an hour of hunting?really?That's what you are worried about?

[Grizz1219]

Not worried by any means... Just most states allow 1/2 hour before to a 1/2 hour after... Just figured we could gain the best hour of hunting... It was an idea... Trust me.. I hear PLENTY of shooting during those times, so only the hard core law abiding are losing out on that hour...

[growalot]

Last night I was coming out of the woods and it was dark...I heard two shots....and deliberately took out my phone and checked...4:58...yep it happens all the time....just like sitting here typing and listening to two shot gun blasts...during M/L....

Opening morning of gun...here was 7:10 am...first shot rang out at 6:20 if I recall...or there a bouts....

There will always be those that can't follow the rules...and some times we assume the worst....I shot at 6:50 the second day...2x's ...but at a trotting coyote..I'm sure ppl thought there goes another idiot cheating...have to say.... I probably would have assumed the same...had it not been me doing the shooting

I think changing the time to earlier...will just have those that tend to "cheat" doing so even earlier than now...We are taking the challenge out of hunting...whats so bad about going in early and watching a buck or doe feeding near by or chasing near by? Challenging your self to do the right thing and wait....I've watched a lot of deer Ohhhh so slowly walk away because yep I could see them...but it wasn't legal....and a few times it was a real personal challenge that I can look back on and smile at...even though I never saw those deer again...

[Grizz1219]

got to admit.. earlier than that would be seriously poaching, no way you can see... But you are right.. those that will cheat will cheat... Was just trying to get something like states around NY to give hunters that 1 hour in prime time to hunt... it was a suggestion to give us more time.. not to reduce poaching... They will always poach.. we are just playing by rules that are more punishing us than the bad hunters... I think..

[Doc]

A poacher that uses a spotlight is breaking the law. We do not do that so we are we are just playing by rules that are more punishing us than the poachers. There are countless examples of poachers getting an advantage over the law abiding. So should we change laws to even the playing field between us and the poachers? Of course not.

I think the sun-rise to sunset laws are in place for safety reasons. We might disagree as to whether that is overly cautious, but the reason for the law should not take into consideration whether there is a fairness relative to lawbreakers. If we did that, we would have to trash all conservation laws ..... right?

[Grizz1219]

When almost every state around you has as good or better safety stats and they hunt 1/2 hour before to a 1/2 hour after... I would think it would show that the law is only punishing the law abiding hunter and they are losing the best hour of hunting... But again... if enough people are OK with it.. go with the status quo...

[bubba]

So let me see if I have captured the logic. You can see fine one half hour before sunrise and one half hour after sunset. But you want to have everyone wear orange so you don't shoot them during these times of less than perfect light. Something there just does not add up to me. Makes me think you are nervous that you can not see as well as claimed, and want me to make you safer during a higher risk time of hunting. Does that about sum it up?

Edited December 11, 2012 by bubba

[SteveB]

When almost every state around you has as good or better safety stats and they hunt 1/2 hour before to a 1/2 hour after...

Could we see the statistics for that?

[Doc]

Yeah, I think enough people have seen how quickly lighting conditions can change, especially in the typical slimey, cloudy, crappy, November weather that expanding the hunting hours really is not a very big "want" with a lot of hunters. I know there have been a lot of evenings when I am on my way out from an afternoon stand that I feel a bit uncomfortable wondering how many guys are stretching the hunting hours. I don't know about the per capita accident rates of states around us, but I do know how fast the lighting changes here in NY around sunrise or sunset, when there is heavy, cloudy weather or in a woods with a heavy, mature over-story. It really doesn't have me very supportive of expanding the hours any further than they already are. And really, I don't feel very "punished because of it.....lol. I don't know, I guess it's just a difference of opinion.

[Grizz1219]

So let me see if I have captured the logic. You can see fine one half hour before sunrise and one half hour after sunset. But you want to have everyone wear orange so you don't shoot them during these times of less than perfect light. Something there just does not add up to me. Makes me think you are nervous that you can not see as well as claimed, and want me to make you safer during a higher risk time of hunting. Does that about sum it up?

I was offering it up as a reason for safety the state could agree with to offset the time.. nothing more.. read what you would like...

As for the stats on other states.. Even my dumb azzed state allows it... And my state is stupid compared to NY... Vermont, NH as well.. only other one I know like NY is Ct..

[SteveB]

Specifically looking for the accidents rates that are as good or better with the 1/2 hr before and after rule.

The ones referred to in:

When almost every state around you has as good or better safety stats and they hunt 1/2 hour before to a 1/2 hour after...

Would like the actual rates to back up the statement.

Thanks

[bubba]

I was offering it up as a reason for safety the state could agree with to offset the time.. nothing more.. read what you would like...

As for the stats on other states.. Even my dumb azzed state allows it... And my state is stupid compared to NY... Vermont, NH as well.. only other one I know like NY is Ct..

Ok I guess my question is why do we need both to be safe if the light is so good then?

[Grizz1219]

States always want "something".... I'm offering this.. Trust me.. I can't understand how ANYONE gets shot other than a ricochet (spelling???)... If you cvan't understand the idea of identifying your target you shoudn't be out there.. but again.. can't legislate morality... As for the stats for safety... I'll try to get the stats for you...

[SteveB]

I only asked because it sounded like you must have had them to be making that statement.

[Doc]

States always want "something".... I'm offering this.. Trust me.. I can't understand how ANYONE gets shot other than a ricochet (spelling???)... If you cvan't understand the idea of identifying your target you shoudn't be out there.. but again.. can't legislate morality... As for the stats for safety... I'll try to get the stats for you...

Remember, safety measures are a two-way street. They are there to keep you from doing something foolish and most importantly from our own concerns of well-being, they are there to keep the guy who is drawing a bead on you from doing something foolish. Sometimes it really isn't all that wise to squeeze every part of a safety measure out. Frankly I do appreciate that little additional cushion when it comes to my safety.

[Jackr]

Yes , I have been in favor of the half hour before rule for a long time . I can read a news paper outside 20 minutes before the legal time without my glasses on . Just makes sense , like to be buy the book , and have passed a few good deer because of this law , while my friend in GA is getting nice bucks around dusk and dawn.

[Grizz1219]

Specifically looking for the accidents rates that are as good or better with the 1/2 hr before and after rule.

The ones referred to in:

Would like the actual rates to back up the statement.

Thanks

From your own state...

"

The effectiveness of fluorescent orange safety clothing speaks for itself. Look at the results: Over the past ten years, 15 New York State big game hunters have been mistaken for deer or bear and killed, and every one of these victims was from that small minority of hunters who did not wear hunter orange. But not even one person who was wearing hunter orange was mistaken for game and killed.

A 16th hunter was also killed in the line of fire when another hunter shot at a deer. Another 13 deer hunting fatalities were not visibility-related."

I'll find more... but started with NY

[Grizz1219]

Here's another great web site.. NY again

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00044112.htm

[Grizz1219]

Also found out... 40 states require hunter orange to be worn.... Not saying thast justifies it.. but no denying it saves lives and would be a good trade for that extra hour to hunt in my opinion... I'm sure not all agree.. but again.. my opinion... everyone has them.. LOL

[arrow nocker]

without much light to reflect on the orange it doesn't show up.need plenty of light to reflect of the orange for it to stand out.When it is 45 minutes before sun up the orange doesn't do any good.Even with the brightest orange vest you still just look like an object moving.So they might want to make it mandatory to use a flash light upon entry and exit also,so you don't get shot.

[Grizz1219]

I can see orange pretty well long before sunrise... Not sure what you mean by that... and I ALWAYS use a head light when walking in the dark... Red light usually..