Pure Rediculousness

[bubba]

The bottom line is hunting is a business regardless of the level you do it at. Someone somewhere is making money off hunting, whether it be in clothing ammo or gear. These shows have sensationalized it to the point that more than a few people buy into the idea that is real hunting. They idolize the people who are on these shows. And if they don't, they bring in musicians and other stars to get people to watch. I do find the shows entertaining, and that is all. The biggest problem I see from them is people want every day hunting to be the same as they see on tv. For instance, the arguments about antler restrictions, so they can see a wild buck like on tv. I see it in the kids that come to my classes wearing their bone collector t-shirts and hats. Listen to them talk, and they think in a half hour, you can walk out sit down and shoot a monster. Then when reality sets in, they get bored. Just remember it is a business and as long as people will shell out the big money to go on these "hunts" people will continue to sell these "hunts". It is truly one reason that I got away from T/C products. They basically supply a lot of the gear for most of these guys. They lay off workers and sell the company over hard times, but they still make sure all their tv guys are are geared up. I simply choose to get away from a company that prostitutes itself out like that. But if people choose to pay that money and go forth and shoot a deer like that, so be it. There is nothing we can or should do about it. If the shows upset you that much and you feel that strongly about it, turn the channel.

[ELMER J. FUDD]

Oh snap!

[arrow nocker]

Oh snap!

haha.ELMER's getting hip up in here.LOL.

[fernnj]

"First off who are we to tell a person how to spend their time or their money?" We have the right and responsibility as hunters who pay billions in tax dollars and license fees to protect our lands and wildlife. If there is an issue that is having a major impact on our sport, we should stand together to have that issue resolved.

"I will tell you one thing that is 100% fact is that high fence whatever you want to call it is growing in leaps and bounds every year in most every state." This is even more of a concern as these issues we are talking about will only be compounded in the future.

"Right now there are not enough bucks to supply the demand in any states." Is this a joke or a plug for your deer farm? What exactly do you call demand? Everyone should be able to kill a 200" buck every year?

"For the few that say thats where cwd comes from. Well you might want to do your homework. There are 7 states and 1 other country that has cases of cwd and there has never been a deer farm or high fence ranch in any of them,EVER!" You are correct, sort of. CWD did not ORIGINATE from a deer farm. Why do you think those states you mention in the midwest and western part of the country don't have deer farms? Its because hunters/biologists in those states identified the problem and realized that these operations would only make the problem WORSE. I suspect they may also think this type of hunting is unethical. There is some evidence that suggests when you have 100 deer per square mile eating out of troughs that the likelihood of passing CWD increases. These hunters successfully formed alliances such as the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation and took measures to help ban deer farms in their states. IF there is clear evidence that these farms increase the spread of CWD and the hunting community as a majority is against them for what ever reason, they should lobby for a ban.

"The bottom line is that its none of our business how or what other people choose to do with their life as long as its legal and it does not have anything to do with any of us." It is our business, this is our sport. If there is something negatively impacting our sport, then it is our responsibility to change laws in order to protect our freedom as "real hunters". I'm sure your deer farm operation is keeping close tabs on their respective politicians, its about time we hunters in the northeast do the same.

[ants]

I dont really have a problem with guided hunts. Its these fenced in, hunt over bait hunts that piss me off. Out of all of these people who take bucks on such hunts and have the deer mounted, how many do you think say to people (while showing off the mount).." yeah got him on a fenced in ranch while he , and 8 other bucks were eating at a feeder"?? ....I'll bet dollars to donuts not too many...why is that ????

If you want to pay to hunt one of these places, go for it. I just think that these "professionals" (LOL) that make money endorsing products used to take game at these places are A-Holes. Just me.

[SteveMcD]

I don't watch the Outhouse Channel, because most of these "Professionals" couldn't find there way out of my 5 acre lot without a map, gps and string tied from one end to the other. AND another reason I would never support SCI.They certainly don't practice fair chase. They are notorious for shooting (I refuse to call it "hunting) inside petting zoos. And then have the gall to publish these zoo pets in their record books,

[WNYBuckHunter]

Larry Weishun is biologist and spokes person for North America Hunting Club, QDMA, and is in many tv shows.

As far as my friend I was using him as an example not judging him. If you reread what I posted it was him judging me for my deer considering himself an authority on the matter because he watchs a lot of TV even he doesn't have any experience for himself.

People can do whatever they legally want and thats fine if they have money to blow like that but bottom line its not for me. I consider a trophy whats big for my area. Yes that means I may never get 150' + deer but anyone around here can look at my horns and say "Darn, you got those deer off public land around here?"

I like getting deer, but I love the scouting, the sitting, the setting up stands, and the fact that I don't get 100% money back guarantee.

Now my question is why would any one want a high fenced hunt?

I remember I really wanted to pig hunt once so I went to a place in central PA. A big game ranch over 1,000 acres high fenced etc... What they didn't mention was that the 1000 acres were split up into 50 acre plots that had pigs are all over feeding out of tubs alog with deer, stag and other animals. If you walked out with a bucket you could have hit one in the head with a hammer and called yourself a hunter. Needless to say I didn't pig hunt and lost all respect for the type of hunting.

Yes, I know who he is, but my point that he is a TV hunter stands true. He goes on those shows to make them, and himself profitable. That being said, alot of what he speaks, in terms of deer and wildlife biology is completely accurate, but just taking the few things you hear on TV as gospel that works for every area in North America would be silly.

As far as your friend goes, sounds like he just doesnt know any better. Maybe instead of judging him, you should show him the light? If he really doesnt have the experience, and hes the kind of person that buys in easily, then that would explain why he eats the TV stuff up.

Another problem I have here is your accusation of QDMA in this discussion. They do not support high fence hunting in the least. Maybe you should educate yourself on what the QDMA actually is rather than bad mouth them for no reason.

[nyantler]

But its not just about that Joe. How many people posted here calling for it to be illegal, etc? Thats more than just expressing an opinion.

Correct..that is not an opinion, that is ignorance.

[BizCT]

http://huntingny.com...-trip-and-pics/

The hyprocrasy on this site amazes me at times. It is ok to go ride around until you find Lion track, put a pack of dogs on the track, chase it until it runs up a tree, walk up to the tree and gawk at the defensless animal before shooting it... for what? Its hide. That makes you a proud hunter? But hunting a 30,000 acre piece of fenced property that you couldn't walk from one end to the other in 1 day is unethical? Give me a break.... Hope you enjoy that lion mount. You should be proud.

Wow, Yur good! I thought about doing the same thing but like i posted above. If it is ok to do and has nothing to do with me..Well..Its their choice. You are right though..Kinda gets two-faced around here at times. Would not turn me on to kill a lion or deer being run by dogs. Now throw a yote in there and im in. Guess im two-faced at times also!!!

After 2 trips to Arizona and 11 exhausting days, yes I am very proud. There was no fence to contain any lions. Majority of people could not physically do this type of hunt. If I was hunting moutain lions in a fenced area, at some point I would have had success. I hunted them fair-chase where I could have never got one.

I bet neither of you could handle a "dry-ground" mt. lion. If you think you get off a quad and walk to a tree and shoot a lion, you have no clue. This hunt was the hardest hunt I had ever been on. Tougher mentally and physically than any deer hunt or wolf hunt I have ever been on by far.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

After 2 trips to Arizona and 11 exhausting days, yes I am very proud. There was no fence to contain any lions. Majority of people could not physically do this type of hunt. If I was hunting moutain lions in a fenced area, at some point I would have had success. I hunted them fair-chase where I could have never got one.

I bet neither of you could handle a "dry-ground" mt. lion. If you think you get off a quad and walk to a tree and shoot a lion, you have no clue. This hunt was the hardest hunt I had ever been on. Tougher mentally and physically than any deer hunt or wolf hunt I have ever been on by far.

I guess everyone has thier own opinion of fair chase huh. You ran with dogs and Quads. Did you really do the chasin? Many would say any animal taken behind a dog or behind something with a motor would not be fair chase. Again what you did was your choice and was fine...But...Fair Chase could be in question for some!!!

[HectorBuckBuster]

How many people in NY realize there is a huge 5000 acre hunting preserve north of Montezuma Swamp. It is called Savannahdu and owned by Bob Congel. Also the average person will never get to go there because it is by invitation only. Bob Congel bought up 5000 acres of land and fenced it in. He even blocked off some roads because he owned both sides of the road.

http://www.savannahdhu.com/home/index.php

[BizCT]

I guess everyone has thier own opinion of fair chase huh. You ran with dogs and Quads. Did you really do the chasin? Many would say any animal taken behind a dog or behind something with a motor would not be fair chase. Again what you did was your choice and was fine.

..But...Fair Chase could be in question for some!!!

Yes, I did the chasing. multiple days of over 10 miles on foot risking my life many times. Between rock climbing with no equipment, killer bees, rattlesnakes, etc.

So fish caught on a boat with a motor are not fair chase?

If I hunted lion that are fenced in, that would NOT be fair chase.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Yes, I did the chasing. multiple days of over 10 miles on foot risking my life many times. Between rock climbing with no equipment, killer bees, rattlesnakes, etc.

So fish caught on a boat with a motor are not fair chase?

If I hunted lion that are fenced in, that would NOT be fair chase.

You say if you hunted behind fence that would not be fair chase. Some say if you hunted with dogs you did not hunt fair chase. There you have it. Eveyone has their own thoughts on fair chase! Deer cant get away from hunter you say behind fence but cat has to get away from dogs( Slim Chance) Not get away from the hunter! Is that fair chase for the cat? Not if he is trying to get away from the hunter.

Edited December 9, 2012 by Four Season Whitetails

[BizCT]

Slim chance? haha, you have no idea about DRY GROUND lion hunting FOR A MATURE TOM then. Do your research and then come back to me. Even with dogs, odds are very slim.

[nyantler]

There was a study done years ago where one mature buck was placed in a high fenced enclosure (I believe it was 1 mile square but not positive... could have been smaller, but no bigger) 10 hunters were put into the enclosure to hunt without weapons for 1 week ... not one of the hunters ever got a look at the buck. That gives you an idea how hard it is to see, let alone kill a mature whitetail buck. BUT.. even knowing that I could never get myself to hunt with anything but a camera in a high fence area... oh and by the way.. the buck was a captured wild deer... not a farm grown animal.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Slim chance? haha, you have no idea about DRY GROUND lion hunting FOR A MATURE TOM then. Do your research and then come back to me. Even with dogs, odds are very slim.

Oh im sure its a different world but the point we both have to deal with is everyone idea of fair chase could differ alot and both could be right!

[TreeGuy]

There was a study done years ago where one mature buck was placed in a high fenced enclosure (I believe it was 1 mile square but not positive... could have been smaller, but no bigger) 10 hunters were put into the enclosure to hunt without weapons for 1 week ... not one of the hunters ever got a look at the buck. That gives you an idea how hard it is to see, let alone kill a mature whitetail buck. BUT.. even knowing that I could never get myself to hunt with anything but a camera in a high fence area... oh and by the way.. the buck was a captured wild deer... not a farm grown animal.

10 folks from the city....lol

[Guns&ReligionCop]

Yes, I know who he is, but my point that he is a TV hunter stands true. He goes on those shows to make them, and himself profitable. That being said, alot of what he speaks, in terms of deer and wildlife biology is completely accurate, but just taking the few things you hear on TV as gospel that works for every area in North America would be silly.

As far as your friend goes, sounds like he just doesnt know any better. Maybe instead of judging him, you should show him the light? If he really doesnt have the experience, and hes the kind of person that buys in easily, then that would explain why he eats the TV stuff up.

Another problem I have here is your accusation of QDMA in this discussion. They do not support high fence hunting in the least. Maybe you should educate yourself on what the QDMA actually is rather than bad mouth them for no reason.

First off you asked who Larry was in a previous post!

Second try rereading my posts again because you getting things mixed up

My freind was judging me not theother way around. I have been mentoring him and showing him what hunting around here is actually like.

Finally where do you see me bad mouthing the QDMA? Because I said Larry is a spokesperson for them? For your information I'm a member of the QDMA. I didn't bad mouth them.

Try comprehending what your reading before you fly off. your supposed to be a moderator!!!

[WNYBuckHunter]

I didnt ask who he was, go back and read. Also, you said this....

How did they survive before the days of fences?

I don't watch it, but that doesn't mean I like the image it gives to people outside the sport or new to the sport. My buddy hasn't gotten anything in 5 years just sits waiting for something and then calls my buck a "cull" deer because of all he has learned from Larry Weishun and QDMA

....which pretty much sounds like you bad mouthing your buddys choices, and blaming them on Larry Weishun and the QDMA, thus bad mouthing them.I comprehend things just fine. Could it be that what you meant came off wrong? You didn't seem to comprehend what I said, after all.

[erussell]

Hunting with Dogs is more sporting than hunting behind a fence. Atleast the deer have a chance to get away! Not to mention its very hard work hunting with dogs. Fence hunters are the laziest hunters there are. A spike from stateland is more of a trophy than a 200 inch behemoth from behind a fence. Do what you want, its legal. But dont try to compare yourself to other deer hunters because one you are not.

[Doc]

I do understand what it is that bothers some people about some of the tactics used these days. I might even be a little more hard-core in my judgement of these things than many others. I am even to the point where I wouldn't use a guide because to me he is essentially doing all the hunting and I am doing the shooting. I am also heavily against what I consider a canned hunt. So I am not without my biases. And on occasion, I have let my biases show a little bit .... lol. I generally try not to make a big deal of it, but I will say that when someone fills their den with mounts from a game farm, it does put a bit of a stigma on those kills. It really does cheapen the achievement and in my eyes makes it all kind of a worthless accomplishment that shows nothing other than he has deep pockets and can afford to buy his trophies. I try not to be that close-minded, but I just can't help having those thoughts creep into my mind. The only thing that I find unfortunate is when I hear non-hunters start talking like that sort of stuff is what hunting is all about. That tells me that in a lot of cases I and whatever achievements that I have accomplished are being lumped in with these "short-cutted" versions of hunting. That bothers me a bit.

[Five Seasons]

I quit watching the outdoor channel when every other hunt was a ranch hunt with an 8 year old in a tree fort set up with a rifle on a bipod.

[WhitetailAddict11]

I scout and hunt for fair chase whitetails, that does not make me a "whiner" or a "kid" or any of that non sense. You can pay for women and you can pay for whitetails, but the outcome is the same. The experience is not even close to the real thing, and everyone who is legit judges you for it. Try and enter those "bucks" in the record books and let me know how the real record holders feel about it Verminator. I'd love to stick you in a private forum amongst guests such as the Benoits and the Salerno brothers and watch you BS your way out of that hornets nest.

[verminater71]

I scout and hunt for fair chase whitetails, that does not make me a "whiner" or a "kid" or any of that non sense. You can pay for women and you can pay for whitetails, but the outcome is the same. The experience is not even close to the real thing, and everyone who is legit judges you for it. Try and enter those "bucks" in the record books and let me know how the real record holders feel about it Verminator. I'd love to stick you in a private forum amongst guests such as the Benoits and the Salerno brothers and watch you BS your way out of that hornets nest.

listen I DON'T hunt high fence...I hunt fair chase just like you...however I don't care if someone else does, if they have money buy a gun kill a big buck and call it hunting....good for them....at least there not bob costas calling for all our guns to be taken away

we need to stop fighting, when hunters fight we lose...why can't you hunt bears with hounds in NY????? because enough hunters thought it was wrong...took the same side as anti hunters and POOF...no bear hunting with hounds in NY

why can't you hunt with a crossbow in bow season????? hunters can't stop fighting

I can't watch hunting on tv because it's not real life....I get it....but I don't want it illegale....and I don't put it out there because anti hunters do read boards...and will use your words against you.....if the anti's want hunting banned from tv...backed by hunters who don't like it we don't satnd a chance

as far as the record books......I could care less......want to know what pisses me off the most.....scumbags who know nothing about hunting going out and shooting huge bucks....and filling the record books

these guys who just happen to drink with a buddy who owns a nice peice...walk out and shoot a huge buck

I seen 3 bucks 150+ killed this year by guys who have no idea what there doing..... that pisses me off

[cwhite]

Slim chance? haha, you have no idea about DRY GROUND lion hunting FOR A MATURE TOM then. Do your research and then come back to me. Even with dogs, odds are very slim.

I lived and worked in AZ for 7 years. My job had me humping the mountains you are talking about everyday. Only difference, I was alone in the dark with a flashlight on 18-20 mile walks at times. Because of my work and time spent in the middle of no where, I was frequently consulted with by a local outfitter, mostly asking about muley's and coues but also the occasional question about cats and pronghorn. He would ask me because he knew I was a hunter and paid attention to the wildlife. I tell you this so you know that I understand the hunt you went on and know the exaggerations you are making.

I'm of the same opinion that 4 Season is when it comes to hunting. If you want to go after a lion with dogs have at it. I may even consider that hunt someday too. But tearing up the guy that goes into a several thousand acre hunting preserve is purely hypocritical. In both cases the animals stand very little chance.

Basically my opinion on a fenced hunt is shooting pens suck. Several thousand acre preserves are a different animal. Yeah they can't leave the preserve like they can your 200 acre hunting lease. Chances are no matter how much pressure they get the deer on your 200 acre lease aren't going to move thousands of acres away.