whackos at it again......Sandy Hook Elementary School Shooting: Newtown, Connecticut

[popit]

You come onto a hunting forum and then proceed to alienate as many members as possible with that goofy remark. Nice job .... a real class-act. Much as I suspected, you are simply another anti-gun plant and apparently an anti hunter as well.

For the record while that remark may be "goofy" it is not anywhere near the level of your remark yesterday inferring people on this site wish for the kind of tragic news from Friday. To know that you think is really dissapointing. Most of your post I always thought sounded pretty spot on

[Doc]

For the record while that remark may be "goofy" it is not anywhere near the level of your remark yesterday inferring people on this site wish for the kind of tragic news from Friday. To know that you think is really dissapointing. Most of your post I always thought sounded pretty spot on

You are certainly allowed to have your opinion (flawed though it may be), but I will tell you that the reactions of the anti-gun crowd after every one of these kinds of incidents, tells an entirely different story.

[Dan92]

popit, while you may be right that " people don't just sit around waiting for children to be shot" use some common sense and relieve that they do sit around waiting for a mass shooting happen whether its 20 6-7 year olds or 20 67 year old. they dont care, if there is ANY event such as this they jump all over it. as i watch the news it seems that even 2 days after this the news is more about the weapons used and what should be done rather then the victims.

[bubba]

Timothy McVeigh, Dylan Klebold, Eric Harris, Adam Laska. Who do you think makes sure we know these as house hold names? The media who would be happy if we all never had any guns. They sensationalize these events, which has a very negative effect. I am not saying the news should not be broadcast, I am saying stop making them heroes in some peoples eyes. They get their 15 minutes of fame, and others want that. Since this happened, all that has been on any news channel is this. Now they are psyco analyzing the survivors and first responders on tv. Come on report it and move on. If you want to be remembered forever, shoot a place up and your name is immortalized. Since the shooting started, it is all that is on tv and as time goes by the story has changes every hour. Stop making them martyrs in the media, maybe it would happen less. As the media frenzy starts, so does the anti frenzy. The president (ans I use the term loosely) could not wait to get on tv and say we need to fix this regardless of politics, with a fake tear running down his face for affect. But no one uses these tragedies to forward an agenda. YEAH RIGHT John Beighnor cries he is a weakling The president cries he is a great man. See the bias here. I doubt very many will.

[sits in trees]

the poster Popit is a women, and women do tend to get more emotional than men in situations like this one in Connecticut. i have also found that many women dont really grasp the real reasoning behind the second ammendment even if they are hunters like Popit, and when you try to explain why we need the second ammendment to remain untouched because of things like tyrannical governments and social unrest/disorder that they cant seem to grasp that type of situation and think your over the top for even talking about it.

Many American women have been lulled into a false sense of security because things have been so good here in our country for a long while now. But when you look back in the not so long ago history of other westernised cultures and even the USA you will see that there is only a thin vail between civilization and total anarchy and i think its every mans duty to explain this to the women in his life, without being too creepy of course....

[Doc]

I'm sure that these events feed future ones simply because of the excessive media coverage. That apparently is what a lot of these mental misfits are craving, and the media sure does give it to them. Everyone worries about what kind of unfortunate circumstance these poor shooters grew up with. Some day we will simply accept that evil exists and there doesn't always have to be some bleeding heart message behind these perpetrators. These guys do always seem to think they are some kind of victim, and they know that the excessive coverage will eventually turn toward the airing of their real or imagined life-grievances .... just like they want.

[MountainHunter]

Not that I expect this to do any good or to even be considered by some or many who read it here. Our country has a serious problem and we all need to be involved in the solution. It is a very complex problem and there are no easy answers. The people committing this horrific acts of mass murder are not what any of us would commonly associate as " the typical criminal element" they are not going to mugg us or break in to our home etc. They are plotting to kill as many people as they possibly can.

This is a cultural phenomenon and it is complex. There are many things that are contributing to it. Likely, in no specific order, media sensationalism and preoccupation, a culture of excepted violence with video games, movies and television programs, the lack of security and employment stability for so many of us, the incredible social and academic pressure that is put upon our children, the necessity of both parents working and the lack of parenting in many cases as a result of it. These things are likely just scratching the surface of the many contributing factors. To me it seems that our problem is one of stress and pressure and an unhealthy society.

We need to be part of the solution. We need to be honest with ourselves and a whole lot more sensitive to the issues at hand. We can't continue to go it's not us, it's not us and grab our guns.

This is a cultural/mental health issue but we need to contribute to the long term resolution of this. We don't need high capacity clips or magazines to hunt with or defend ourselves or our families with, we don't need paramilitary type rifles to hunt with. These are examples of things that contribute toward a culture of violence. I completely understand that it is the person not the weapon that does the damage but these things are contributing toward a perception that isn't healthy or necessary. The same legal AR that someone is using to hunt coyotes with is being used by neo nazi groups or white supremacist groups in simulated training exercises. ( I use this as an example)

We need to take a stand in regard to things like this, to distance ourselves from the GI Joe wannabe's and extremest groups so we are not linked with that type of mentality.

I suggest before you have a knee jerk reaction here and grab your guns and use every pro gun cliche you have ever heard you think about what I have said.

I am not anti gun, not a liberal by any means. Life time avid hunter, business owner, 6 year board member of my county's mental health association, involved parent etc.

We need to be part of the solution with these issues. We can't just bury our heads in the sand. These events are occurring far to regularly, it needs to bother us to the extent that we are willing to do something about it!

[WNYBuckHunter]

So if you see that its a mental health issue, why do you continue to attack inanimate objects? You dont think that in the case of almost all of the recent shootings, that the same things couldnt be carried out with magazines with lower capacity? How about with just an extra weapon or two, how about with a bomb made from household chemicals?

Heres a fact, these people usually target places where they know they will be the most effective, and that means where the possibility of anyone else being armed is extremely low. Why do we keep creating these places where large numbers of people are basically trapped, with no means to defend themselves, and then leave the security to be so lax that someone dressed in body armor can just waltz through the door and kill at will?

[Birddogg]

the poster Popit is a women, and women do tend to get more emotional than men in situations like this one in Connecticut. i have also found that many women dont really grasp the real reasoning behind the second ammendment even if they are hunters like Popit, and when you try to explain why we need the second ammendment to remain untouched because of things like tyrannical governments and social unrest/disorder that they cant seem to grasp that type of situation and think your over the top for even talking about it.

Many American women have been lulled into a false sense of security because things have been so good here in our country for a long while now. But when you look back in the not so long ago history of other westernised cultures and even the USA you will see that there is only a thin vail between civilization and total anarchy and i think its every mans duty to explain this to the women in his life, without being too creepy of course....

[Birddogg]

Yes women are like that, so useless at grasping the important things in life. I guess we will just have to relegate them to the the less taxing and unimportant things like having children, raising families, caring for the sick, running major corporations, fighting overseas for our national security and on and on...................

sits in trees, I hope your mother, sisters or daughters never have to depend on you to defend them. That comment was like something out of a Taliban handbook.

[popit]

the poster Popit is a women, and women do tend to get more emotional than men in situations like this one in Connecticut. i have also found that many women dont really grasp the real reasoning behind the second ammendment even if they are hunters like Popit, and when you try to explain why we need the second ammendment to remain untouched because of things like tyrannical governments and social unrest/disorder that they cant seem to grasp that type of situation and think your over the top for even talking about it.

Many American women have been lulled into a false sense of security because things have been so good here in our country for a long while now. But when you look back in the not so long ago history of other westernised cultures and even the USA you will see that there is only a thin vail between civilization and total anarchy and i think its every mans duty to explain this to the women in his life, without being too creepy of course....

So glad you just posted this. This is so good I have to copy it and send it around. Ahh the truth always comes out.

[popit]

Yes women are like that, so useless at grasping the important things in life. I guess we will just have to relegate them to the the less taxing and unimportant things like having children, raising families, caring for the sick, running major corporations, fighting overseas for our national security and on and on...................

sits in trees, I hope your mother, sisters or daughters never have to depend on you to defend them. That comment was like something out of a Taliban handbook.

Finally someone with some commen decency and sense.

[popit]

So glad you just posted this. This is so good I have to copy it and send it around. Ahh the truth always comes out.

Just for the record I killed my 8th NY buck this year that would qualify for the P&Y record book{if i entered them} I forgot , how many did you have ?

[WNYBuckHunter]

We all know this is an emotional subject and can bring forward some pretty strong opinions, but lets remember the forum rules and keep the discussion clean. Personal attacks, etc will not be tolerated.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Just for the record I killed my 8th NY buck this year that would qualify for the P&Y record book{if i entered them} I forgot , how many did you have ?

Which has what to do with the subject at hand?

[Doc]

Not that I expect .......extent that we are willing to do something about it!

Ok, where do we draw the line? Do we have studies to see which rifles have an evil enough appearance to incite violence? You do realize that it really is only appearance that separates the Ar (or "paramilitary rifles as you call them) style from the typical semi automatic sporting arms. The problem is that whenever I hear this kind of solution, I am reminded that these are purely subjective judgements that someone is making about what kinds of products that can be bought. The gun looks lethal in someone's opinion, so it should be banned. I have yet to hear any of the arguments from the ones that would ban specific guns that are based on anything but a subjective, emotional reaction to the appearance. It's never anything that is based on objective proveable features. So where do you draw the line? Who is it that has the right to make those decisions? What is the specific criteria to be used besides the unacceptable measures of appearance? You see, because the anti-gunners refuse to answer those questions, it becomes plain that they are not really interested in spot-banning a weapon here and there based on logical well thought out criteria, but rather have it in mind to incrementally do away with all firearms, starting with the ones that have a look about them that they don't like.

If you really want to talk gunowners into getting behind some form of gun banning, you are going to have to come up with some better arguments than "gosh they look so evil". You are going to need some certified facts and figures, and "it looks mean" simply doesn't cut it. Also, the category gun that you might find so "scarey" simply has not turned out to be the gun of choice in these mass homicides, or any other category of armed crime. So how are you going to show any appreciable positive effect from banning them? You can't just say "trust me". Seriously, in order to sell any kind of policy, you have to have facts and reasonableness and some indication that you have taken your thoughts beyond the emotional and put in some real thought as to the likely effects of the policy. Nobody is going to get behind any bans that impact a constitutional amendment without some very serious preparation and very convincing data.

The clips:

First of all, it is hard to understand how someone could tell me what kind of firepower it takes to defend my family. There are some pacifist types who believe that armed defense has no place in this world. Throw yourself and your family on the mercy of whoever it is that is trying to do harm to you. Yeah ... right .... there's a real winner of an idea. My thought is that when it comes to defense of myself and loved ones, there is no limitation ... clip size, weapon capabilities, or whatever. I am and should be limited only by my own choices and perhaps the amount of disposable income I am willing to put into home defense. You want to talk me out of that, you have a real tough argument on your hands. But when someone thinks they should determine what kinds of defenses I should have, it sounds like they can prove just how many assailants or armed home invaders there will be should I ever find it necessary to defend my home. I sure can't make that prediction and I'm sure they can't either. That also sounds like they can guarantee the limits of the firepower of any attackers. I guess it is assumed that they will be playing by the rules .... lol.

Second, I think you are over estimating how quickly a clip can be replaced. I can't really even say how effective limiting clip capacity would really be. But just because a clip is empty does not mean they are out of ammo .... lol. How long does it take to swap out clips. So again, here is another potential ploy to simply place a law, any law without any idea as to what the results will be. How many lives will a reduced capacity clip save per year. Anybody have any idea? Does anyone even care, or is it just another flailing attempt at legal gun-owner harrassment.

If anyone is really all that seriously interested in recruiting supporters for any kind of gun banning or accessory limitations, you had better come armed with facts, figures, and solid estimates of lives saved because there is not a single believer in the 2nd amendment that is going to be moved by anything less.

[ants]

Which has what to do with the subject at hand?

That one has me scratching my head too

Edited December 16, 2012 by ants

[MountainHunter]

Which has what to do with the subject at hand?

About as much as making a huge generalization and demeaning women! If you are going to moderate hold everyone to the same level of accountability. Any good hunter knows exactly what she was saying.

[MountainHunter]

I knew that my comments would fly over the head or through the ears of many here. I said I completely understood that it is not the weapon but the person behind it. The key aspect of my comments have to do with the cultural considerations and the perception of these weapons. Not the technical reality of whether or not these weapons are that different than our Remington 7400's or Browning BARs.

As is most often the case no one as of yet has answered my questions but have in turn asked me questions that feed your own feelings or Agenda's.

Do we need high capacity clips ton defend ourselves and our families or to hunt?

Do we need paramilitary style weapons to hunt with?

Do these clips and weapons serve any positive purpose in the hunting community or in the home defense community?

[Birddogg]

Jeez... all I got was a doe!

[ants]

Just for the record I killed my 8th NY buck this year that would qualify for the P&Y record book{if i entered them} I forgot , how many did you have ?

Why not enter them??

[jjb4900]

It will be near impossible to account for all the guns and who has possession of them, the gun laws are so varied from state to state there's no way to keep things in check.........in NYS it's illegal for a convicted felon to possess a firearm, yet how many purchase ammo and a hunting license every year? when they go in to purchase a hunting license or ammo a red flag should pop up and the authorities should be alerted.

[Paula]

Jeez... all I got was a doe!

thats good, i would be happy with one

[tughillhunter]

Why not enter them??

cause its noy true. probably a high fence guy if it is.

[Paula]

Why not enter them??

enter them in what?