Just a little venting...

[Sogaard]

As many of you know, I am one of the more liberal members of this site. I think our country needs stricter gun laws. That is not to say I want law abiding citizens to lose the right to bear arms. I'm an avid hunter. My sons just turned 12 and I can not wait to be able to take them out this spring for their first turkeys. I live in NYC, where gun registration and 5 round max magazines are already the norm, and I'm OK with that. I think private sales at gun shows with no background checks are ridiculous. I believe fully automatic weapons should not be in the hands of private citizens. I don't think a fifty round drum is a necessity to have fun at the gun range. I could list more examples, but I think that is enough to give you an idea of where I stand.

That being said, I also hate people who turn a national tragedy into disaster-porn, and use it to push an agenda. I despise articles that blindly condemn firearms, written by people who have absolutely no idea about how a gun works. Every time I see current buzz words like, "military-style", "high-capacity" or the ever popular "assault weapon" without any quantifying guidelines about the definition of such words, I cringe. Seriously, how is one supposed to interpret what a "military-style" weapon is? Last time I checked the M24 was still used by the Army. Does that make my Remington 700 "military-style"? Where is the line that separates "high-capacity" from a normal magazine? More than five? Ten? Twenty? I won't even comment on everything that gets called an "assault weapon" these days, it would take too long.

I believe, as a nation, our gun laws are too relaxed. I believe there are measures that can be put into place which would help prevent tragedies like the ones that happened in Tucson and Aurora and Oak Creek and Newtown. If you are of mind set that any restrictions are evil and against our rights as citizens, you are a dinosaur and useless to this discussion. Equally useless is the other side of the spectrum. If you tell me "Weapon Free Zones" are the answer, I have two words for you, "Soft Targets". Banning responsible, law abiding citizens access to firearms should never, and will never, happen.

Both sides need to come together and work towards making our country safer. I hope that our elected officials can focus more on common sense, and less on political posturing. No law can be passed that will completely eliminate the possibility of another catastrophe like this from happening. However, I do feel that changes can be made to lessen the likelihood.

Our country is in mourning. Again. I wish that all of our representatives have the wisdom and the desire to help us heal.

Edit: Fixed a typo.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Sogaard

[virgil]

Well done Sogaard.

[sits in trees]

what happens if a group of people come into power in your region, state/area. and say thay group of people wants to kill you and your family for not believing in what they want you to believe wether it be political, religious, your views on abortion, or whatever. if you say it cant happen or ohhh it wont happen here then your not a good student of history. as a liberal you especially have much to fear because most right wing wacko conservative groups out there are very well armed. having the right to protect you and yours should not be a conservative or liberal issue.

[d-bone20917]

what happens if a group of people come into power in your region, state/area. and say thay group of people wants to kill you and your family for not believing in what they want you to believe wether it be political, religious, your views on abortion, or whatever.

What country are you living in?

[virgil]

^{What country planet are you living in on?}

[Sogaard]

What country are you living in?

Just let that one go. I did. When someone starts off a post with a seemingly post-apocalyptic scenario, its just going to detract from any useful conversation.

[Doc]

Ok ..... Can you supply a list of new laws that you believe would have prevented any of the tragedies that you mentioned. I'm willing to listen, but I want to hear detailed specifics, not just that we need to tighten up gun controls. If you are serious about needing new laws, you must have some kind of list in mind. I never get a chance to hear the full extent of what gun control advocates really want as an all inclusive list along with the reasons why they believe they would put a dent in the mindless mass killings that we seem to be plagued with. I'm serious. Here is a chance to lay out your vision of the perfect gun control plan along with explanations of why they would each work.

Keep in mind that gun owners are a multi-faceted group that have different needs and interests when it comes to firearms ownership. 1 Some are hunters, but we may even be in the minority among gun owners. 2 Some want sufficient home and personal protection. 3 Some are into target shooting (all kinds). 4 Some are into collecting. 5 And some are into criminal use. Let's see if your list can eliminate the last group while protecting the rights of the previous groups. Try to list new laws that really have substance and are not designed to simply make everybody feel good or have emotional appeal with no real and measureable effect.

[d-bone20917]

Just let that one go. I did. When someone starts off a post with a seemingly post-apocalyptic scenario, its just going to detract from any useful conversation.

I thought maybe he had an inside track on when the zombie apocalypse was going to begin.

[Early]

Doc proposes an interesting challenge.....Anyone??

[Elmo]

Not all criminals are like the super resourceful ones in James Bond movies. The common criminals cannot obtain resources if a simple barrier is placed in front of them.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Elmo...all you need is the ability to watch videos, search on the internet and it really isn't rocket science. It can be as simple as mixing household chemicals and locking a door.

[Elmo]

Elmo...all you need is the ability to watch videos, search on the internet and it really isn't rocket science. It can be as simple as mixing household chemicals and locking a door.

Those are the resourceful ones. The ones with an education. Most common crooks dropped out in 6th grade.

[steve863]

Doc proposes an interesting challenge.....Anyone??

Easy. A federal gun card for everyone. NO one be it in a private transaction, or thru a dealer can purchase a gun without one. To get this gun card, one must go thru a background check and take a gun safety course, with some actual training on a range. I have said it before. The gun manufacturers don't sell their guns directly to criminals. Criminals obviously get them in one way or another from original LEGAL purchasers. Yeah, some are gotten thru stealing, but that is not always the case. Without some sort of regulations on private sales, the sky is the limit to what criminals can buy without any questions asked. NO, this will not stop all crime, and no one here ever said it would, but I'll be damned if it wouldn't be a better system than we currently have. We have hundreds and thousands of gun laws in this country, most of them are worth $#!+, when what's illegal in one state is perfectly legal in another. Without some uniformity we can't get anywhere.

So here you go Doc and everyone. Now lets hear how you don't think this would help?

[MACHINIST]

If thats the way it would be then yes.But a stolen gun doesn't go through the same channels.Then you would have to make laws for someone who has possession of a unregistered gun severely stiff,years in prison not a slap on the wrist. month in jail is nothing for the common crook.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Steve. If you throw in pistols on that card and that it also allows CC nationwide, I would buy that.

[steve863]

No doubt plenty of guns already in circulation to wreck havoc for years. This don't mean that putting MORE into easy circulation is any better, however.

[steve863]

Steve. If you throw in pistols on that card and that it also allows CC nationwide, I would buy that.

I'd throw in the pistol, although not the CC. I would keep that separate, since I simply don't trust every idiot out there to carry one at all times. This would be an improvement over MANY existing pistol laws that many have to deal with, but of course the NRA and others don't think we need any NEW gun laws!!!!!!!!!

[Elmo]

Let's just say out of the 10,000 gun related homicides a year, 100 of those came from criminals who were on the fringe. If some type of restriction prevented those 100 deaths but wasn't enough to prevent the other 9,900. Would those 100 lives be worth it?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Why different? If we are trying to smplify what would have to happen? SO now that suggestion is good but not good all the times?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Let's just say out of the 10,000 gun related homicides a year, 100 of those came from criminals who were on the fringe. If some type of restriction prevented those 100 deaths but wasn't enough to prevent the other 9,900. Would those 100 lives be worth it?

No

Edit: --Depends on the "restricions"

Edited December 18, 2012 by Culvercreek hunt club

[Elmo]

No

Fair enough.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Fair enough.

I edited it. I would have to see the restriction. I am not aooppsed to a National Carry/firearms card and If done promptly the background check I went through for my pistol permit was not oppressive

[steve863]

I simply don't think owning a pistol should automatically give one the right to carry it at all times. Sorry. Two different issues in my view. It's not the law currently in most places, so I don't think a CC should be made any easier. I personally think it's too easy in many places already.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Easier than what? Do you have a permit?

[steve863]

I'm not talking about NYS. Go anywhere else in the country and getting a CCW is not very difficult at all. Having everyone carry is not the solution in my opinion, it will sooner or later just lead to more mayhem. Of course the solution for the pro-gun side is to arm everyone and go back to the days of the old west.