Either stand with us or get out of the way

[Mr VJP]

It's time for gun owners to stand for the second amendment. Either stand with us or get out of the way.

According to polls many gun owners are "OK" with banning high capacity magazines....do you really believe they will stop there? Your bolt gun or semi-auto shotgun will be next on their hit list. Give gun grabbers an inch and we promise you they will try to take a mile....and none of it will ...save lives. In fact, it will simply make criminals more powerful.

Imagine how easily the media can attack the "killing power" of your 30-06 "sniper rifle" as soon as some criminal uses one in a sniping spree (remember Malvo the DC sniper killing people one shot at a time?)...or how they can make the case that you don't need "ballistic tip" bullets...the list goes on an on.

The difference in cycling 10 round versus 30 round magazines will have a very negligible impact...all such bans will accomplish is to let the criminals have that extra shot or two while the law abiding citizen is reloading.

[Sogaard]

Imagine how easily the media can attack the "killing power" of your 30-06 "sniper rifle" as soon as some criminal uses one in a sniping spree (remember Malvo the DC sniper killing people one shot at a time?)...or how they can make the case that you don't need "ballistic tip" bullets...the list goes on an on.

The difference in cycling 10 round versus 30 round magazines will have a very negligible impact...all such bans will accomplish is to let the criminals have that extra shot or two while the law abiding citizen is reloading.

You do know the DC sniper used a Bushmaster XM-15 .223, right?

Anyway, I'm going to gladly step out of your way, since I'm a firm believer in banning high capacity magazines. Although, since we live in NY, they are already banned here (barring anything grandfathered in).

Out of curiosity though, how many criminal vs civilian AR-15 battles have you read about recently? ever?

[MACHINIST]

I am with you MR VJP,it wont ever stop with the anti gun crowd.They push and push and take every little inch you give them and we will never get them back.I can understand that people may not care for hicap mags but all of us can really see that when given an inch the anti's take a mile!!

[josephmrtn]

im with you!!!

[greensider]

dont forget the animal rights goons they will back these laws and when they are doen with guns they will be after your bows claiming they are not an instant kill and couse pain they will stop when you can only hunt on vidio games period

[wheelieman]

Ok so i'm tore up on this topic, Do we need 30 rnd mags i don't believe so, But i also agree that if we allow them to ban high capacity mags whats next, Only thing i know is that something has to be done to prevent senseless killing of defenseless people, I also believe more gun laws will not do anything other than hinder law abiding citizens from defending themselves or loved ones, I'm with the majority of gun owners when i say you can pry my guns from my cold dead fingers, But really why do we need high capacity mags, I'm not against getting rid of them, if that is what it would take for my Niece's and nephew to go to school and be safe, Ill just learn how to load my mags faster,

[wheelieman]

Really hunting isn't going to end, its not possible to maintain healthy wild animals with out culling some, Insurance companies would go nuts and the people would get tired of having their stuff destroyed from an over abundant animal population, Disease could run rampant and devastate entire areas, it cant be done we will always be able to hunt, with what weapon that's the only thing in question,

[Renegade Hunter]

Ok... Being from a military background. Do you know how long it takes to swap out an empty mag? about 2 seconds. There is no difference between a 30 and a 10. You can kill just as many poeple. If you think that psycho killed all those people with just one 30 round mag you're wrong. So will banning 30 round mags make a difference? Ummm... No. Now ask yourself the question... Is there any reason to ban AR-15's and 30 round mags from a responsible, decent man? If anyone can give a GOOD reason, I would love to see it.

[Sogaard]

Be very careful there, wheelieman, you're getting very close to sounding logical.

I do have a question though, since we live in NY and there already is a 10 round cap on all magazines (post '94), why is there so much mention of 30 rounders?

[Sogaard]

Ok... Being from a military background. Do you know how long it takes to swap out an empty mag? about 2 seconds. There is no difference between a 30 and a 10. You can kill just as many poeple. If you think that psycho killed all those people with just one 30 round mag you're wrong. So will banning 30 round mags make a difference? Ummm... No. Now ask yourself the question... Is there any reason to ban AR-15's and 30 round mags from a responsible, decent man? If anyone can give a GOOD reason, I would love to see it.

So, as a trained soldier, it takes you at least 2 seconds to change magazines. Hypothetically, lets say your average untrained rampaging lunatic takes a least twice as long (I would hope that's a pretty safe guess?). Are you trying to say that 4+ seconds can't mean the difference between life and death in a combat situation? I think I could find many soldiers and LE officers that would disagree.

Edited December 27, 2012 by Sogaard

[josephmrtn]

im untrained and i think i could prob do it in 2 or three, but i dont see how that makes a diff if the targets are unarmed citizens

[Renegade Hunter]

Ok. How long did he go on his spree before authorities arrived? People (As I would Imagine) were probably running for their lives and hiding in ine place. So no. I doubt it would make any difference at all.

[Sogaard]

im untrained and i think i could prob do it in 2 or three, but i dont see how that makes a diff if the targets are unarmed citizens

First, we aren't just talking about unarmed citizens. Not all of these nuts are kind enough to put a bullet through their own skull. Some need assistance in that area.

Second, if you are unarmed and fleeing from an armed suspect, you wouldn't want that extra few seconds to run a little further, dart around that corner, lock that door, etc? Will it matter an enclosed classroom of little children, no, of course not. Could it matter in some situations, of course. Why make it any easier than it is already?

[Sogaard]

Ok. How long did he go on his spree before authorities arrived? People (As I would Imagine) were probably running for their lives and hiding in ine place. So no. I doubt it would make any difference at all.

Stop focusing on one specific incident and look at the big picture. Again I ask, why make it easier than it already is? What do you really lose? So you reload a little more often at the shooting range. You already stated it only takes a few seconds.

[Renegade Hunter]

Ok sogaard how 'bout you answer my one little question at the bottom of my paragraph. That's what I am here to stand up for. Not the PSYCHO with the gun. As an AMERICAN! you have the right to bear arms. That is all there is for me to argue. Read the Amendment.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Look at the bigger picture. In a school shooting. No, the size of the mag does not matter. But when you think of a time when you would need a militia? On a real battle field? That is what the Amendment states does it not?

[WNYBuckHunter]

So, as a trained soldier, it takes you at least 2 seconds to change magazines. Hypothetically, lets say your average untrained rampaging lunatic takes a least twice as long (I would hope that's a pretty safe guess?). Are you trying to say that 4+ seconds can't mean the difference between life and death in a combat situation? I think I could find many soldiers and LE officers that would disagree.

Nut jobs going into a school class room or movie theater are NOT a combat situations, its a slaughter, and an extra second will make NO difference.

[Felonious_Monk]

All this discussion about the right to bear arms centering around whether or not you need them to hunt. That's not why the 2A exists. Why do we allow the enemy to steer the discussion?

Remember, in many cases the Militia and the Continental Army were BETTER armed than the British regulars with whom they fought. This is the essence of the right to bear arms.

[Sogaard]

Nut jobs going into a school class room or movie theater are NOT a combat situations, its a slaughter, and an extra second will make NO difference.

Pretty sure I said that exact thing.

[Sogaard]

Sorry, after I subtract post-apocalyptic scenarios, I can't think of any time where we would need a militia.

This is usually the point in the conversation where I realize there is no point continuing, and go to sleep with the security that there are a hell of a lot more people on my side of the "crazy" line than yours. Enjoy digging your bunkers and stocking up on ammo. This isn't the 1700s anymore, fellas.

[Renegade Hunter]

. Wake up bub. This is the real world. Just because you have had the "security" of others fighting so you don't have to. Because the United States military keeps war abroad than on its own shores. Sleep tight big guy.

Edited December 27, 2012 by Renegade Hunter

[josephmrtn]

all there is too it.....

[Renegade Hunter]

Nice post Joe. Thanks.

[Sogaard]

I agree, I do have the United States military looking out for me and every other citizen. You know, the soldiers your militia's are ready to kill if the government gets too oppressive and they need to rise up! My money is on the US Military. I will sleep tight, thank you.

[josephmrtn]

i found it a couple months ago and felt it TOTALY takes care of this issue...

If We Give An Inch They Will Take A Mile,

Sorry Sogaard but the point of the post was to explain why WE have the right to bear arms, and not only hunting rifles but ANY arm... the 2nd does NOT state the right to keep and bear bolt action deer rifles with less than ten round mags shall not be infringed...

no hard feelings tward you in any way im just trying to make my point...

Edited December 27, 2012 by josephmrtn

[Sogaard]

And when did I every say I wanted to take away your AR-15? Might want to take a peek in the Rifle and Gun Hunting section, where I posted earlier today that I was interested in buying a Remington R-15 and was looking someone with first-hand knowledge.