is this legal?

[boo711]

Ok i got a question here, might not even matter but i am curious. I read that the lady from webster that bought those guns was arrested. Said she was charged for buying guns she never intended to use. Said on form that she was buying them for her and she signed it. She was charged with a felony for this punishable by 10 yrs in the big house. I recently bought a rem 870 express deer gun for my aunt that she gave to my uncle for x-mas. I was the one who bought it, back ground check done on me. Does this mean i committed a felony by buying a gun, signing paperwork for a gun i never intended to use or keep? Just curious.

[DTG3k]

I think what made it illegal is that she bought it for someone who she knew could not legally buy it themselves.

[HectorBuckBuster]

That dirt bag was with her when she bought the guns at Gander Mountain.

[fasteddie]

Boo711 ---- I think it would depend on what papers you signed , if there were papers ..... If you signed anything that stated you were making the purchase for yourself but actually bought it for someone else to use , I would think it would be considered a "straw purchase" .

[covert]

If you are buying a gun as a gift it is not illegal as long as you're not buying it for someone who is prohibited from owning a firearm. Question 11. A on the 4473 form adresses this exact scenarion.

http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf

[waterweasle]

right, if you are buying it then transfering it to someone that isnt able to buy one legally, THATS a straw purchase...............

[covert]

*scenario

[Elmo]

If I buy a gun for myself...than after a few months, decided to sell them to someone who is willing to buy it off of me. I can't do a background check so I didn't know *cough* *cough* they could not buy it themselves.

[edit: grammar]

Edited January 1, 2013 by Elmo

[Doc]

I just recently bought a .270 from that Gander Mountain store, but I cannot remember the question about who the gun was for. So I'm not sure whether it was a verbal acknowledgement or something on the form that I signed. You never know, it could have been buried in the text of the form that I signed, I can't say for sure.

I guess everytime you add on another layer of red tape, it probably increases your odds of making some inadvertant illegal statement and becoming some kind of crook ..... lol. I suppose that as long as your Uncle doesn't hold up a 711 store with it, you're probably ok. But looking back at it now, you probably should have given his name as the intended owner. Who would have guessed? I never knew anything about "straw purchases" prior to this news story. I never even heard the term before.

[sits in trees]

Guns laws are complicated and leave lots of gray areas. I really think they do this by design, it leaves them lots of leeway when it comes to prosecuting.

[boo711]

When i bought that gun at bass pro they were well aware that i was buying that gun for my uncle, not for me. I dont remember if there was a "specific" question on background check form i did that pertained to actual ownership of the gun. Ido remember there were questions pertaining to criminal background, domestic disputes, etc.

[Dinsdale]

Heres what you filled out at the counter;

http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf

Scroll down to the explainations for each question to 11a.

[Doc]

Heres what you filled out at the counter;

http://www.atf.gov/f...tf-f-4473-1.pdf

Scroll down to the explainations for each question to 11a.

Ok, here's the way it worked when I got my gun at Gander Mountain. I filled out items 1 through 10 and then the clerk prompted me along for the rest of it ..... He asked, I answered, and he wrote all the crap onto the form. The answers were pretty straight forward and there was nothing unusual about any of the responses. However, I can see how someone who was buying the gun for someone else might not even get to see the bold print, and the warnings and all the explanations at the bottom. If they add anymore complexity to the process, a buyer will have to bring his lawyer along ..... lol. And that wasn't even a pistol or anything that involves registration.

[landtracdeerhunter]

Heres what you filled out at the counter;

http://www.atf.gov/f...tf-f-4473-1.pdf

Scroll down to the explainations for each question to 11a.

Like to see the form, but the link isn't working.

[Doc]

I was just there, and it worked ok for me. In fact I ran a print of it.

[Dinsdale]

Ok, here's the way it worked when I got my gun at Gander Mountain. I filled out items 1 through 10 and then the clerk prompted me along for the rest of it ..... .

Never seen that one....but I guess at box stores/higher volume, they get a few folks who can't figure out what to check off and it makes it go smoother.

I'm used to the system and it just takes a couple minutes to fill out......."yes" and then all "no's"; skip 12, do 13 14,flip it to next page sign and date 16+17 LOL

[Dinsdale]

Like to see the form, but the link isn't working.

Hmmmm......just do a search.....

ATF 4473

Should get a good link for you.

[landtracdeerhunter]

Yes, got it. Thank you.

Edited January 1, 2013 by landtracdeerhunter

[boo711]

So if i answered yes to 11as being the actual buyer was i wrong? I was the actual buyer who was buying gun that day, it was just not for me.

[landtracdeerhunter]

You answered correctly. One would think a space should be included on this form for the persons name and address, receiving the weapon, along with a background check. Seems like federal, NY loophole.The person, signing the form is liable for the weapon.

Edited January 1, 2013 by landtracdeerhunter

[boo711]

Thanks for the info landtracdeerhunter! Greatly appreciated!!!

[Mr VJP]

NRA members get all this info regularly so we can keep up with the laws being forced upon us. Straw purchasers are in the sights of the gun banners right now. Bloomberg is big on claiming most of the illegal guns in NYC come from straw buyers in states like VA, SC, GA, TN, NC, etc...

The way the FED would likely look at what you did wouldn't make you very comfortable and would leave you wondering if you needed to get a lawyer. This is why gun owners really need to keep themselves informed about new gun laws being proposed in this country all the time.

These laws are often intended to be vague and confusing so as to be prosecutable even if you broke no law at all. You need to let the Judge decide. If they can make things this much trouble for you, you may decide it's not worth doing. That's the whole idea.

And if they are able to convict you of something, they can now say you are a convicted felon and ALL of your firearms must now be turned in. See how government firearms confiscation is made legal now?

[fasteddie]

#11a on the form (partial )

Are you the actual transferee / buyer of the firearm (s) listed on the form ? You are NOT the actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm (s) on behalf of another person .

I would say it was an illegal purchase ........................

[boo711]

Illegal purchase, that makes me feel real good. As i said i was very forward that this gun was not for me. No one said anything

[Dinsdale]

Illegal purchase, that makes me feel real good. As i said i was very forward that this gun was not for me. No one said anything

I think you should call BATF in the morning and turn yourself in.

It's the only way out at this point; I bet they have already looked at this thread and have your address from your ISP.

Better to just serve 10 or 20 years now instead of having to look over your shoulder.

Of course you'll need to look over your shoulder in the big house too.......but for other reasons.

Damn....I'm out of tinfoil for a new hat.