Whats so hard about passing yearling bucks?

[Doewhacker]

Same path as me?   I'm not Jesus!  I meant "ignorant" in the fact that as a society of "deer hunters" we shouldn't think that there is no room for improvement.  If you think there isn't, well then excuuuse me!  If you wait for the political end to change things, its usually too little, too late.  Most people that disagree most likely fear change which is to be expected.  I'm still left wondering how smashing every yearling buck makes anything better.

Nice back peddal.

Most people that disagree are more concerned with preserving their freedom to choose what deer to shoot and are not worried about what other hunters will say about it.

Sam you left out the part where you hunted in two different states to get those doe's.. right? Not every one can or wants to do that, but good for you and your accomplishments.. that is your choice and you are free to do as you please.

[steve863]

Just like the AR discussion- lots of heavy-handed opinions, and yes most of us can be judged as ingnorant, -on both sides of this argument. Do you know why Iowa is one of the best big-buck states? Yes the genentics are good and so are the soils, but #1 is the limited gun season that doesn't even start until December and only lasts a week. Bucks get to grow up and as the average buck is older and bigger, hunter expectations increase too. Guys just don't shoot every little buck they see because they know they can do better. I choose to wait it out for a mature buck because I enjoy the hunt and the challenge of it less than the kill itself. Tag out and my season's over. I'm in no hurry. I never had a shot at a mature buck last year, so my tag went unused. Oh well- shot a couple of does along the way instead. They taste better anyhow.

I will be classified as Elitist by a bunch of Forum Members, but it is not an insult- more of a compliment, Thank you. If we were fisherman we would be as extreme as "catch and release flyfisherman" and "filling my bucket bait fishermen". There are both and there are also some areas that are fly only and catch/release only. Nothing is going to change that. I just choose to hunt with those that have the same principles as me and I try to convert anyone who'll listen.

No Elitist is not the word I would use.  I would classify you as a hunter who cares about horns above anything else in hunting.  Your post proves this.  The definition of Elite is "a superior member of a social group" according to my dictionary.  Maybe you fellas think of yourselves as superior for thinking that everyone should shoot big bucks only, but we sure don't. 

[SplitG2]

It's very easy do it every year.  I have said it in the past and will say it again "there are hunters and there are killers"  I got bashed for saying it before, so let's here it.

[nyantler]

Amen! No need to kill yearling bucks... especially as you get to be an older hunter. It's not a contest to see who can stack up the most bucks. You aren't more of a hunter if you kill a small buck instead of a doe. The meat tastes the same. Don't complain about there being no big bucks in your area if you keep killing all your potential big bucks when they are yearlings. If we went around killing all of our male children when they were young, there wouldn't be a lot of adults males to pass on the family name. Just a thought!!

[punch]

You are right, hunting means different things to different people and what I support doesn't mean you have to.  I can see that.  But nobody is answering my question.  Is there no room for improvement?  I'm not talking about AR.. I'm talking more hunters voluntarily passing yearlings and habitat improvement.  Not just food plots, but logging, buck doe ratios, even picking up trash in the woods.  Would it ultimately improve hunter satisfaction?

[nyantler]

Although I'm not into shooting small bucks. I don't have a problem with hunter shooting a legal buck. But if we're talking about whats good for the deer and not just whats good for the hunter, AR (done correctly, with a thought out doe harvest plan) is definitely the way to go.

[sampotter]

I left out the part where I killed 3 other does in CT, still tagged 2 here.

There is a little more to it than ONLY wanting bigger antlers, which I do want. Managing the deer herd is about keeping the population in check as well.

Maybe if NY had a reputation for big bucks like Iowa does, we would be able to charge nearly $500 for a non-resident tag and still have a long waiting list of hopeful hunters.

In the end, NY's deer are a natural resource that belongs to NY, so any management practice that woud increase revenue from hunting is obviously beneficial.

[punch]

I shoot does because I'm a hunter.  I eat venison. Its fun. Big bucks are a byproduct of good management.  You can't possibly tell me you wouldn't enjoy shooting a big buck.  If two bucks were in the field, one big, one small, which would you pull the trigger on?

[SplitG2]

yes, there is always room for improvement.  Most people think its up to the DEC to do it all but they can't.  we need to look in the miror and do it.

[nyantler]

I have taken many big bucks since deciding to pass on smaller bucks 16 years ago. The satifaction is far greater. But, knowing you are giving back to conservation by taking in to consideration what is better for the deer rather than the hunter is far more satisfying.

[burmjohn]

You are right, hunting means different things to different people and what I support doesn't mean you have to.  I can see that.  But nobody is answering my question.  Is there no room for improvement?  I'm not talking about AR.. I'm talking more hunters voluntarily passing yearlings and habitat improvement.  Not just food plots, but logging, buck doe ratios, even picking up trash in the woods.  Would it ultimately improve hunter satisfaction?

There is plenty of room for improvement. There are a few of use that do hunt in an AR zone here that support AR because of the results we have seen hunting those areas.  I'm one of them.  Satisfaction in my immediate area because of AR has increased, as well as the opportunity to harvest a buck as well as larger bucks.  Again, talking from my experience and my area in 3H and 3J.

[steve863]

Amen! No need to kill yearling bucks... especially as you get to be an older hunter. It's not a contest to see who can stack up the most bucks. You aren't more of a hunter if you kill a small buck instead of a doe. The meat tastes the same. Don't complain about there being no big bucks in your area if you keep killing all your potential big bucks when they are yearlings. If we went around killing all of our male children when they were young, there wouldn't be a lot of adults males to pass on the family name. Just a thought!!

Yeah, and how about those hunters that didn't draw any doe tags and there have been quite a few such hunters in recent years?  Should they pass up all bucks that don't measure up to your standards also?  Why are they even wasting there time hunting?  If they simply want to LOOK at deer, then they don't need to purchase a hunting license at all and don't need to wait until hunting season to do it.  Sorry, but your analogy of killing young male children has to be the sickest attempt I ever heard to justify your positions here.  It has absolutely ZERO to do with the topic at hand here.  Unbelievable! 

[Doewhacker]

"Don't complain about there being no big bucks in your area if you keep killing all your potential big bucks when they are yearlings"

I'm not complaining.. I could care less about a "big" buck. There are bucks killed each year acrossed the state, they are there reguardless of what part of the state you come from. Some are big and some are small, the ratio of older bucks killed has not changed.

[Doewhacker]

yes, there is always room for improvement.  Most people think its up to the DEC to do it all but they can't.....

Thats is pretty much what the DEC has said, it is far better for us to monitor and improve our own land. There is no one size fits all approach and it would be impossible for the DEC to do much with their limited resources.

[sampotter]

Steve863-I still don't take the Elitist label as an insult. If you and your dictionary label me and my counterparts as superior members of an "elite" society- thats fine, maybe we are. If you think I care about big antlers- I do. Like I said we're as different as flyfishermen and bait fishermen and the same labels apply there too.

To me- killing immature deer- bucks or does has no challenge. I have had yearling bucks walk straight to me as I am standing in an open field- not smart enough to be scared.

People have been fascinated by antlers FOREVER. Thats why I'm not into duck hunting- they're all the same. Antlers are all unique- I just like to see them reach their maximum potential, which is not technically until a buck is 5-6 yrs old. There's nothing worse than a really great 2yr old buck being killed before maturity.

Whenever I hear "you can't eat the antlers"- I have to laugh. Yes, you can't eat them, but you sure can sit there and look at them for a long time. Then if you tire of looking at them, you can turn them and get a different persective, and then stare at them some more. The only problem is- you can only turn a spike so many times before you realize its only ever going to be a spike.

[Doewhacker]

Sam brought up Iowa and their season structure, if there is one topic that will burn the house down faster than AR's, a shortened gun season is the one...

[punch]

I gotta be honest with ya, I would be perfectly happy with a great 2.5 yr. old right now.  They, are even hard to come by. But one foot in front of the other, I hope to graduate to 3.5 yr. + someday soon.  I do know what you mean about the 5.5 yr. olds though.  I have some on trail camera and they get to be quite impressive.  If the chance at failure "tag soup" or  "missing a shot" wasn't there, success wouldn't taste so sweet.

[punch]

and yeah, I know...it tastes a lot like venison

[Doc]

I'm still left wondering how smashing every yearling buck makes anything better.

Smashing deer???? What kind of weapon are you hunting with ..... a post mall? ;D  I know, you thought that term carried a little more emotional weight, and was guaranteed to win the point ..... lol. However, it did provide a humorous visual. Kind of like indicating that those that don't particularly like the taste of antlers are "ignorant". There is one thing I will say for these AR arguments, they sure are entertaining.

[steve863]

If you want to wait until a buck is 10 1/2, arthritic, and without teeth, that is your choice.  I cannot tell you to shoot anything else if you don't want.  At the same time, you can't tell us what to shoot either if we are perfectly happy with it, and THERE is the catch to all this.  You guys can continue to horn hunt with or without putting restrictions on everyone else, but NO that doesn't seem to be enough for you guys.  You want everyone else to believe exactly what you do and follow the rules you want implemented.  You seem to be loving this "elitist" label, since you take pride in killing big bucks only, but I can assure you that it impresses a lot fewer people than you may think!

[SplitG2]

Boy I would love to see the gun season moved later in the year and cut it to two weeks.  Does this make me selfish?  I don't think so!  It's so easy for all the non AR, non QDM and non bowhunters to call us selfish.  I think that word is over used  

[SplitG2]

steve, not going down the road with you.  But saying we are all big antler guys well let me tell you that the last buck I harvested was a 4 1/2 year old 6pt that had no brow tines.  I guess that's a big trophy rack deer :

[punch]

i've seen the sheds from an old browless six pointer. Just being older makes a trophy in my opinion. Still a wall hanger, nice.  oops! was I not supposed give my opinion here?

[SplitG2]

Punch, yep mature deer is what I seek these days.  If it's mature and has a scrub rack it's on the hit list, if it's mature and has a big rack it's on the hit list.  the common denominator is mature!

Good luck this season.

[sampotter]

The voluntary decision to pass on younger deer seems regional. In my area there are a lot of guys that let em grow, so more and more guys start holding out because they are encouraged by sightings of big, mature bucks on a frequent basis.

SplitG2- I wouldn't mind seeing it being straight-up bow only. I have gained a lot of access to land that was off-limits by agreeing to hunt only with a bow.