Whats so hard about passing yearling bucks?

[punch]

Some hunters make such a big deal about it.  I really don't feel compelled to shoot a buck that is equivalent to a little boy.  Guys that say "You can't eat the antlers" are completely  ignorant.  Why not try something thats best for the herd instead of whats best for you. Our NY bucks need age.

[fasteddie]

Wow ! Coming on a little strong for a newbie .......... ??? ... ???

[Fairgame]

??? :  I didnt say it!!

[Mr VJP]

So I'm guessing he never applies for a doe permit then?

Not all NY state deer hunters are lucky enough to even see a buck of any age during the whole season.  That's not because they aren't good hunters,  they may be in an area that has few bucks and they may not have more than a few days to hunt.

Our NY hunters shouldn't be looking down their noses at other hunters with a judgmental attitude.  If the buck was legally taken, I have no problem with the hunter that took it.

[SteveB]

Mr punch has his own CNY blog imitating a qdm site that vague enough so I suspect he has an agenda that he prefers to keep hidden. At least until some people sign up as "members" so he can claim support for whatever he has in mind. Post your agenda as to where you are going with your blog. I would not be surprized if it is an attempt to resurrect the failed CNY whitetails proposal.

[TheHunter]

Don't mind SteveB, his agenda is clearly to discredit and dispute any AR/QDM facts and opinions known to man.

Some hunters make such a big deal about it.  I really don't feel compelled to shoot a buck that is equivalent to a little boy.  Guys that say "You can't eat the antlers" are completely  ignorant.  Why not try something thats best for the herd instead of whats best for you. Our NY bucks need age.

I agree, our herd does need age, more so in some area's then others.

[SteveB]

No - my only agenda is choice for the hunter. And any true qdm supporter knows that mandatory ar has little to nothing to do with qdm. I probably shoot more does and pass more young bucks (not just 1.5) then most ar proponents that want there choice to be the only one.

Did you visit the punch blog to see how little info there is there?

Do you know about the failed CNY Whitetail proposal?

[Doc]

Guys that say "You can't eat the antlers" are completely  ignorant. 

So, could you supply a few good recipes? What tenderizing techniques do you use? I've never tried eating antlers, and am eager to check them out.

Doc

[punch]

Yes....I am coming on strong.. ;D  Just cause I'm new to this forum stuff doesn't mean I can't have an opinion. Thank you though. I appreciate being on here.  Look, I'm not "condeming" hunters who shoot little bucks, I'm saying why wait for the state to put in place AR when passing yearlings is something that more hunters can voluntarily do.  Don't get me wrong, I'm for AR.  Its the one thing that would make the biggest impact on our bucks age structure.  Just trying to get more hunters (THE # 1 CONSERVATIONISTS) to think about what it CAN be with more positive effort. Oh! and yes I do fill my doe tags and my freezer and yes I do have a new website that I'm quite proud of.  Not hiding anything here, just trying to make a positive impact by making more hunters take a closer look at what they are doing instead of the DEC. and yes if you are the least bit interested it is www.punchoutdoors.com.

I'm working on that recipe too but it might it take awhile

[Lawdwaz]

AR?  I'll pass......................

[steve863]

Age structure never has been a problem with the deer herd.  They multiply nicely no matter what the age structure is.  The importance of age structure has little to do with anything other than it makes horn hunters think that they will have an easier time seeing and hopefully killing bigger bucks.  Got news for you fellas, as far as the state is concerned, the age of the buck when it gets gunned down is of little importance to them.  They need deer killed, and hunters kill them.  The age of any individual deer that gets killed or remains alive means NOTHING in the scheme of things.  If a hunter is happy killing a yearling buck, the more power to him.  As others have said, many hunters hunt in areas where a hunter may see one buck an entire season.  Why should he pass it up if he doesn't want to and would be happy with it??  Just to make YOU guys happy and let the deer live on so that YOU might have an opportunity to gun it down next when it might be carrying bigger horns??  You want to take this persons hunting rights away so that YOU guys can have better hunting for yourselves next year. That is pretty much all what passing the yearling buck will do.  Not a good enough reason in my opinion. 

[Doewhacker]

"Guys that say "You can't eat the antlers" are completely  ignorant"

Well based on the post's here on this site it really seems like those "ignorant" guys are more informed that those who are not "ignorant". A points based AR does not protect any certain age 100%, it only protects bucks with less points.

"Just trying to get more hunters (THE # 1 CONSERVATIONISTS) to think about what it CAN be with more positive effort"

AR and conservation have nothing to do with each other, conservation is about more than the number of points a buck has when it is killed. I'll even take it a step further and say that QDM does very little in the way of conservation efforts, it deals with one specific animal not the whole environment.

(+1 to Steve863's post also)

[fasteddie]

Having an opinion is one thing . Coming on a site and calling people IGNORANT with 2 posts is something else .

I set my own standard as to not shoot spikes and 4 points but I am not going to belittle the person who does . With no AR , that's perfectly legal . It doesn't help QDM but ....... it's legal .

"YOU CAN"T EAT HORNS" .......... :

[TheHunter]

Age structure never has been a problem with the deer herd.  They multiply nicely no matter what the age structure is.  The importance of age structure has little to do with anything other than it makes horn hunters think that they will have an easier time seeing and hopefully killing bigger bucks.  Got news for you fellas, as far as the state is concerned, the age of the buck when it gets gunned down is of little importance to them.  They need deer killed, and hunters kill them.  The age of any individual deer that gets killed or remains alive means NOTHING in the scheme of things.  If a hunter is happy killing a yearling buck, the more power to him.  As others have said, many hunters hunt in areas where a hunter may see one buck an entire season.  Why should he pass it up if he doesn't want to and would be happy with it??  Just to make YOU guys happy and let the deer live on so that YOU might have an opportunity to gun it down next when it might be carrying bigger horns??  You want to take this persons hunting rights away so that YOU guys can have better hunting for yourselves next year. That is pretty much all what passing the yearling buck will do.  Not a good enough reason in my opinion.

Thats YOUR failed logic, opinion, and thinking.

[TheHunter]

A points based AR does not protect any certain age 100%, it only protects bucks with less points.

AR and conservation have nothing to do with each other, conservation is about more than the number of points a buck has when it is killed. I'll even take it a step further and say that QDM does very little in the way of conservation efforts, it deals with one specific animal not the whole environment.

AR's protect yearling bucks.  FACT is that Antler Restrictions are accomplishing the objective of reducing the yearling buck harvest by 70%. Very good QDM stands for Quality Deer Management, hence the reason for supporting one animal.  But the result of QDM ends up benifiting more then just deer.  QDM is about herd management, habitat mangement, hunter management, and herd monitoring.  By improving the habitat for example, by doing food plots, your not only improving sources for deer but also for everything else that feeds there.  Turkey, yote, etc etc...

[Doewhacker]

A points based AR does not protect any certain age 100%, it only protects bucks with less points.

AR and conservation have nothing to do with each other, conservation is about more than the number of points a buck has when it is killed. I'll even take it a step further and say that QDM does very little in the way of conservation efforts, it deals with one specific animal not the whole environment.

AR's protect yearling bucks.  FACT is that Antler Restrictions are accomplishing the objective of reducing the yearling buck harvest by 70%. Very good QDM stands for Quality Deer Management, hence the reason for supporting one animal.  But the result of QDM ends up benifiting more then just deer.  QDM is about herd management, habitat mangement, hunter management, and herd monitoring.  By improving the habitat for example, by doing food plots, your not only improving sources for deer but also for everything else that feeds there.  Turkey, yote, etc etc...

And why exactaly are you answering for this punch guy?

Yes food plots are great.. but only for that year, what happens when you stop doing them? It is not a lasting conservation effort and does not change the overall landscape for very long.

[TheHunter]

And why exactaly are you answering for this punch guy?

Yes food plots are great.. but only for that year, what happens when you stop doing them? It is not a lasting conservation effort and does not change the overall landscape for very long.

For the same reason your attacking him...

Yes, food plots are great, and food plots, the ones I plant do not just "last a year".  Perennial crops and grasses can last for years and years.

[steve863]

Thats YOUR failed logic, opinion, and thinking.

So go ahead and prove to us that the DEC is actually concerned with age structure??  Did they implement AR's in those several units because of a concern for age structure OR because some vocal sportsman's club convinced them that everyone and their uncle hunting these units was pro AR's?  My failed logic is actually the reality of it all, while yours is nothing other than you guys wanting to put restrictions on what others can shoot to hopefully make it easier for yourselves to shoot the bigger ones that you guys seem to think are so important.  Sorry to have to tell you this, but your logic carries absolutely NO more value than anyone else's here. 

[punch]

Wow! Touchy touchy.  I didn't realize there were so many passionate people out there.  I'm not here to argue and sorry if I offended anyone, that wasn't my attempt.  I do realize that some parts of state have poor habitat and poor deer numbers and that what is good for one area won't work for another.  But I also believe there is room for improvement everywhere.  I do agree that the DEC couldn't care less about age structure, but I DO.  I pass yearlings knowing that some will make it through, not just for me, but for somebody.  I try to get out of it what I put in.  If the first deer that presented you a shot was a wide 2 and half yr. old 8 pointer you would drill it all the same.  Only difference is 30 lbs. more meet in the freezer and more pics of you with the deer smiling ear to ear.  I know what tag soup tastes like and it sucks, I know, but I tag does when possible and enjoy watching young bucks as they go by.  I don't smash little bucks just cause I have a tag.  Again, I'm NOT trying to offend anyone, just saying... it could be better, couldn't it? And conservation goes beyond big antlers and deer.  Its about our environment and doing good for habitat which effects many other species including us as humans trying to things better for the next generation.  It sounds like many people could care less, and that will probably never change.  But I do care, and hopefully that will never change either. ;D

[Doewhacker]

And why exactaly are you answering for this punch guy?

Yes food plots are great.. but only for that year, what happens when you stop doing them? It is not a lasting conservation effort and does not change the overall landscape for very long.

For the same reason your attacking him...

Yes, food plots are great, and food plots, the ones I plant do not just "last a year".  Perennial crops and grasses can last for years and years.

So you are answering for him because he called other hunters ignorant for not following the same path as him?

[steve863]

Wow! Touchy touchy.  I didn't realize there were so many passionate people out there. 

So this is surprising to you?  I'm glad you are finally realizing otherwise.  Maybe you guys should talk to more hunters and not only your close knit groups who think the same way as you. 

[punch]

Same path as me?   I'm not Jesus!  I meant "ignorant" in the fact that as a society of "deer hunters" we shouldn't think that there is no room for improvement.  If you think there isn't, well then excuuuse me!  If you wait for the political end to change things, its usually too little, too late.  Most people that disagree most likely fear change which is to be expected.  I'm still left wondering how smashing every yearling buck makes anything better.

[sampotter]

Just like the AR discussion- lots of heavy-handed opinions, and yes most of us can be judged as ingnorant, -on both sides of this argument. Do you know why Iowa is one of the best big-buck states? Yes the genentics are good and so are the soils, but #1 is the limited gun season that doesn't even start until December and only lasts a week. Bucks get to grow up and as the average buck is older and bigger, hunter expectations increase too. Guys just don't shoot every little buck they see because they know they can do better. I choose to wait it out for a mature buck because I enjoy the hunt and the challenge of it less than the kill itself. Tag out and my season's over. I'm in no hurry. I never had a shot at a mature buck last year, so my tag went unused. Oh well- shot a couple of does along the way instead. They taste better anyhow.

I will be classified as Elitist by a bunch of Forum Members, but it is not an insult- more of a compliment, Thank you. If we were fisherman we would be as extreme as "catch and release flyfisherman" and "filling my bucket bait fishermen". There are both and there are also some areas that are fly only and catch/release only. Nothing is going to change that. I just choose to hunt with those that have the same principles as me and I try to convert anyone who'll listen.

[punch]

well said.  Thank you.

[steve863]

Most people that disagree most likely fear change which is to be expected.  I'm still left wondering how smashing every yearling buck makes anything better.

How does letting him grow another year make it any better?  Sure it sounds better to those who want a bigger buck to shoot, but does it really help the deer population?  We are simply applying our self-serving desires (wanting to kill the biggest buck possible) to deer biology here.  You guys try to paint it all as benefitting the herd when in reality it's all for self-serving reasons.  We all do things for self-serving reasons, but at least admit it.  I kill deer because I like venison.  You kill them because you like big antlers.  That's all it boils down to.  Lets not try to kid ourselves or anyone else that letting a deer walk for another year will benefit the deer population in general, because it won't.  They have managed to survive over the millenium quite nicely and I wouldn't be surprised if they out-survive the human species once it's all said and done.  We humans just think we know it all when it comes to ourselves and the animal world yet historically we have screwed up just about everything we touched.  I for one have more trust in mother nature than I do any human.