Crossbow Debate 2013...

[d-bone20917]

If you read all of my posts on the subject you will see the one reason I'm against it is because I think it will reduce the number of people, mostly kids, from taking up traditional archery (oddly, the same reason Culver says he is for it). Being able to hunt at a younger age and early in the season is a big reason I think people get into the sport of archery. I would rather see them learn the sport, because lets be honest, anyone can aim and pull a trigger. So you guys can keep throwing out the elitist arguments and the "I don't want other people shooting my deer" BS, but I have never alluded to that. In fact the big reason I said I do support crossbows is the selfish one, because it may result in a longer archery season in the north if the number of hunters increases, which would benefit me. The fact is, due to work I only bow hunted one afternoon last year in the early season so I'm not worried about competition.

Personally I think if you hunt with a compound you are just as big a wuss as the ones hunting with a crossbow.

[d-bone20917]

And Zhe Wiz... your argument for them still sucks.

[phade]

I'm mixed on inclusion, honestly.

In Ohio, where it is prevalent, and often cited as a reason why they should be allowed. This season, I killed a 2.5 yo buck, nothing special, at 30 or 35 yards (God I must be getting old because I don't remember). I took it to the locker, and they looked at me like I was some hunting whiz for killing a deer with a compound vertical bow - because crossbow use is so prevalent and viewed as easier there. Crossbow hunters outnumber compound and traditional hunters in Ohio now based on the last Ohio DNR numbers I saw.

I see that as a major concern for me. I am all for expanding opportunity, but archery (vertical anyway) as an institution, is in jeopardy. Because arguably the poster child state for crossbows has more crossbow hunters than archery hunters, I have a taken a pause on whether inclusion is more of a good thing or bad thing (Pro/Con). To me, that proves that a crossbow does not lend itself to people picking up a compound or trad. bow.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Sorry dad, can't find it. Please teach me your ways.

I find it hilarious that when I express my opinions on the subject I'm forcing my beliefs on others, although it seems you're allowed to criticize our current policies and tradition and want to change the way we experience archery today based on your opinions. So who is really imposing their beliefs on the other here? Am I advocating taking away your current ability to hunt with a crossbow or are you asking to change the New York archery season as it currently stands?

See that is where your stance doesn't hold up. The inclusion will change nothing about how YOU choose to participate in the sport and not force you to use the crossbow. I don't see the harm in allowing others to have the choice to use it.

[growalot]

Personally I think if you hunt with a compound you are just as big a wuss as the ones hunting with a crossbow.

Now you were doing so well ...to this point...and I know there's a smiley there...I started out with a recurve...and hunted until I killed my first bow deer with it...then switched...why?? Being a woman I can't pull and hold a 60-70 pound bow and hold it... so it was a decision I made because 45# recurves are just plain slow ...I'd missed a couple of deer that had plenty of time to just drop out of the arrows path which made me nervous about clean shots...I passed countless shots just for that reason....But I am no wuss

I'm not happy about the inclusion...ps...I own one ...because I don't think the DEC is handling it right to date and fear that won't change...and I.believe there will be a couple of big issues that will occur with the inclusion...I'll stop there due to ppl going off the deep end...I'll just wait a year or two then say remember when I said???

By the way they aren't all that easy...and they are definitely not low profile..it almost makes me want earn a buck rules put in at the same time they are...almost

[Zhe Wiz]

Personally I think if you hunt with a compound you are just as big a wuss as the ones hunting with a crossbow.

See, now why didn't you just lead with that? That right there tells me everything I need to know about your xbow opinion. Now where's my definition of elitist again? Oh yea, there it is. God, not to piss you off right from the start by using the "E" word again, but damned if your statement doesn't sound a whole lot like what an Elitist would say. If you don't do or use what I do or use, then I am right, I am better than you. Is that a good translation? Nice try on the smiley, I'm not buying it!

And Zhe Wiz... your argument for them still sucks.

You're sucks worse. AND, unlike you, I'm going to defend my statement.

See, your argument is that not allowing xbows gets kids to use bows so they can hunt earlier in the season. OK, I'm all in for more kids hunting, but where we differ is, you believe that because you love traditional archery so much, that everyone else should love it too and be forced to try it. My argument is that if xbows are allowed, kids can STILL start early, they just won't be forced to use a bow, though they can if they choose to, or if their mean ol' dad forces them to. I believe that if someone loves it they WILL try it, and if they don't, they won't! I don't care if in 10 years 90% of archery hunters use an xbow and 10% use a "wussy" compound bow. What I fail to understand is why that bothers you (not just you dbone, but you anti-xbow people) so much? Keep holding on to your traditions if you want to, but don't make me do it too. Recurves, traditional and compound bows will never go away. There's always someone looking to try something new or to challenge themselves more. I may very well get in that boat someday myself. That doesn't mean I believe we should force someone to use a tool they don't want to use just so they can hunt earlier in the season.

In summary, I see your argument, but to me it's weightless. I don't care who likes and who doesn't like the way I hunt or what I use. I like my xbow, I like my 243, I like my smokeless ML and I like my semi-auto shotty. But I don't force anyone to use what I use. I tell them the pros and cons and let them decide. If bow hunting is so awesome, people will do it. Like I said before, it's not me trying to please dbone (ha!) or anyone else with how or what I hunt with. It's all about me vs. the deer and the personal challenge of putting a projectile where I want to put it when I want to put it there. (Oh, and while I'm thinking about it, I'm not even going to concede that anyone can "just pull a trigger." I took a riflery class in college, there are a LOT of people who cannot. I witnessed it first hand and it wasn't pretty.) I'm not going to force any of you to hunt the way I do either.

So I'm assuming that since no one has answered my MAIN QUESTION (dbone, why do you keep ignoring it?) that the anti-xbow group must agree with me. There is nothing my use of an xbow does that will have any negative impact on your hunt with whatever bow you feel makes you a non-wuss. Is that true? Are you conceding that point? Can anyone give an example, like I did with rifles, of how my use of an xbow negatively impacts your hunt? Is there anything? At all?

If not, then stop it with the elitism, (and shouting up and down while stomping that you are not an elitist doesn't make it so. Please look up the definition) let us use xbows during bow season, keep using your whatever-makes-you-feel-like-a-non-wuss bow and get on with your hunting enjoyment. Let me get on with mine. I promise to save some deer for you, I promise to teach my son about all of his options and let him choose the one he wants, whatever bow that may be, if any.

It's amazing how vocal the anti's are on this topic. I know a lot of hunters, and only about 10-20% of them are opposed to allowing the user of xbows during archery season. We xbow proponents need to start voicing our opinion so our wonderful government doesn't mistakenly think the anti's are in the majority here. The argument always seems to be "thou shalt save the tradition". Guess what? I don't care about that tradition. Someone will keep it going just like black powder and flint locks are still going even though I'll probably never use either. Enjoy them if you want, but don't make me!

Zhe Wiz

[WNYBuckHunter]

Sorry dad, can't find it. Please teach me your ways.

I find it hilarious that when I express my opinions on the subject I'm forcing my beliefs on others, although it seems you're allowed to criticize our current policies and tradition and want to change the way we experience archery today based on your opinions. So who is really imposing their beliefs on the other here? Am I advocating taking away your current ability to hunt with a crossbow or are you asking to change the New York archery season as it currently stands?

What I advocate for doesnt force any change in how your archery season will be experienced, or anyone elses for that matter. I advocate for the option which allows anyone to make their own choice.

If you have a reading problem, thats your problem, and Im not going to help you with it.

[d-bone20917]

So I'm assuming that since no one has answered my MAIN QUESTION (dbone, why do you keep ignoring it?) that the anti-xbow group must agree with me. There is nothing my use of an xbow does that will have any negative impact on your hunt with whatever bow you feel makes you a non-wuss. Is that true? Are you conceding that point? Can anyone give an example, like I did with rifles, of how my use of an xbow negatively impacts your hunt? Is there anything? At all?

My response to how would affect me is clearly stated in post #41.

So if I remember right your example was, a rifle goes BANG and will ruin the nice quiet woods you want to enjoy. And a crossbow is quiet so it won't ruin your nice quiet woods. Wow. Apparently no one turkey hunts or duck hunts while you are crossbow hunting? Because I hear just as many gun shots during archery as regular season. But that is an excellent rant... you should be proud.

Actually I shoot a compound too, although I haven't hunted with it the last two years. That comment was meant to be a joke, but you are clearly incapable of having an intelligent conversation.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Because I hear just as many gun shots during archery as regular season.

I hunt NZ and SZ archery and regular season and you can't even make that statement with a srtaight face, can you? LOL Unless you hunt right near Perch River or a concentrated duck hunting area. You can't compare the amount of shooting in Archery season to regular season.

[d-bone20917]

I hunt NZ and SZ archery and regular season and you can't even make that statement with a srtaight face, can you? LOL Unless you hunt right near Perch River or a concentrated duck hunting area. You can't compare the amount of shooting in Archery season to regular season.

If you could see me now, my face is straight. There are duck hunters all over where I hunt and duck hunters shoot a LOT. It's nothing to hear 50 shots just on morning watch. Goose season is just as bad, but that isn't during archery.

Edited January 24, 2013 by d-bone20917

[Zhe Wiz]

Here it is, from #41, just like you said. And see, I AM capable of following simple directions at least:

You are absolutely right. It wouldn't affect me at all.

Ahh, excellent. So you do concede the point. I see you're having difficult saying it again, so I won't ask you to repeat yourself. :-) You agree with me! The elitist in me loves it when that happens. ;-)

So if I remember right your example was, a rifle goes BANG and will ruin the nice quiet woods you want to enjoy. And a crossbow is quiet so it won't ruin your nice quiet woods. Wow. Apparently no one turkey hunts or duck hunts while you are crossbow hunting? Because I hear just as many gun shots during archery as regular season. But that is an excellent rant... you should be proud.

You thought THAT was a "rant"? Hmmm. Interesting.

But anyway, I do NOT hear anywhere NEAR as many gun shots during BOW season as I do during the first couple days of gun season. After that things calm down. BUT, you missed the ENTIRE POINT. I mean, you are incredible, you can take this thing in all sorts of directions! Apparently you think it's OK to use RIFLES during bow season, but not xbows? Is that what you are arguing now?

I gave clear (to most people) examples of how your silliness (you are the one that asked, "why not guns during archery?") ruins my hunt and then asked you to do the same with xbows. Trouble is, you can't! So instead you attack my reasons (if you remember, I warned you that MY OPINION was coming up) for enjoying bow season! Do you not hear yourself? Honestly, your argument is sounding weaker with every keystroke!

Actually I shoot a compound too, although I haven't hunted with it the last two years. That comment was meant to be a joke, but you are clearly incapable of having an intelligent conversation.

That's almost funny right there! YOU accusing ME of being incapable of intelligent conversation! You're killing me! And like I said, I saw the smiley, I get that you gave the underhanded remark as if it were a joke, but I don't believe you.

Zhe Wiz

[Five Seasons]

See that is where your stance doesn't hold up. The inclusion will change nothing about how YOU choose to participate in the sport and not force you to use the crossbow. I don't see the harm in allowing others to have the choice to use it.

it alters a way of life and a tradition. I wanted to avoid the "tradition" argument as long as I could as I know you will jump all over it with the same old responses like recurve and decreasing hunters numbers blah, blah, blah. It may not directly affect me except for maybe a few more hunters in the woods you're right. But it changes a sport that has been in place for many years and I just don't like it. And that's just me being brutally honest. Call me stubborn, call me an elites I don't really care. I just want to see the sport as I know it and the tradition of bow hunting carried on to my son and future generations. Autococking crossbows with bolts, scopes and triggers is just not archery. And still I have only seen the reason you want crossbows is because they're easier and less challenging. I keep my stance that they should be used for handicapped and elderly but I still do not see why a season as we have all known it should change just so those not willing to put in the time and effort to learn how to shoot a bow can participate. The bowhunter is an exclusive group. It's a group of hunters that have put in time and effort to become good at something that is very difficult. When you decide you want to bowhunt and when you start regularly taking deer with a bow you have elevated yourself to another level of hunter and I think this is why we get called "elitist" in almost every thread. Being a successful bowhunter is hard work and again I feel we lose some of that by making the season easier and more inviting. Why must everything be made easier? Why must we try to include everyone on everything? Lets reward those who practice and master something difficult.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I didn't even hear a shot on the youth hunt weekend this year. I expected to. I thinkthe waterfowl example might hold true in a few area but he vast majority fo the state isn't duck hunt heavily. In you experience though, how does all that duck hunting effect your deer sightings? I can only guess not terribly becasue you continue to hunt there. SO if the guns shots in your area don't effect you I wouldn't think the crossbows would either? no?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

it alters a way of life and a tradition. I wanted to avoid the "tradition" argument as long as I could as I know you will jump all over it with the same old responses like recurve and decreasing hunters numbers blah, blah, blah. It may not directly affect me except for maybe a few more hunters in the woods you're right. But it changes a sport that has been in place for many years and I just don't like it. And that's just me being brutally honest. Call me stubborn, call me an elites I don't really care. I just want to see the sport as I know it and the tradition of bow hunting carried on to my son and future generations. Autococking crossbows with bolts, scopes and triggers is just not archery. And still I have only seen the reason you want crossbows is because they're easier and less challenging. I keep my stance that they should be used for handicapped and elderly but I still do not see why a season as we have all known it should change just so those not willing to put in the time and effort to learn how to shoot a bow can participate. The bowhunter is an exclusive group. It's a group of hunters that have put in time and effort to become good at something that is very difficult. When you decide you want to bowhunt and when you start regularly taking deer with a bow you have elevated yourself to another level of hunter and I think this is why we get called "elitist" in almost every thread. Being a successful bowhunter is hard work and again I feel we lose some of that by making the season easier and more inviting. Why must everything be made easier? Why must we try to include everyone on everything? Lets reward those who practice and master something difficult.

I don't see the tradition argument but If you do that is your call. I do have a couple questions for you though. Where do you hunt regular season and what do you use? Do you hunt Muzzleloader season and what do you use?

[Five Seasons]

I don't care if in 10 years 90% of archery hunters use an xbow and 10% use a "wussy" compound bow.

...

So I'm assuming that since no one has answered my MAIN QUESTION (dbone, why do you keep ignoring it?) that the anti-xbow group must agree with me. There is nothing my use of an xbow does that will have any negative impact on your hunt with whatever bow you feel makes you a non-wuss. Is that true? Are you conceding that point? Can anyone give an example, like I did with rifles, of how my use of an xbow negatively impacts your hunt? Is there anything? At all?

Zhe Wiz

that's exactly my point. you dont care what comes of a sport some of us love. who cares? screw it! screw the bow and arrow hunter as long as i get my way. I have answered your question in my post above. You just don't like it. We speak about tradition and use it all the time when we speak about the new gun laws and ARs but then we throw tradition to the wind when we talk xbows...

[Five Seasons]

I didn't even hear a shot on the youth hunt weekend this year.

it was the first year and it was rainy weekend.

I don't see the tradition argument but If you do that is your call. I do have a couple questions for you though. Where do you hunt regular season and what do you use? Do you hunt Muzzleloader season and what do you use?

8F and 7J. I hunt 2 spots in 8F. One I bowhunted during late season and the other I hunted with a muzzleloader and if you'd like to hunt with an xbow than you should have that right and you have my support.

I'm glad we have finally agreed to disagree about our views on the archery season. Like I said earlier this is generally one of those arguments that will not persuade any hunter to change their views.

Edited January 24, 2013 by Belo

[Culvercreek hunt club]

it was the first year and it was rainy weekend.

8F and 7J. I hunt 2 spots in 8F. One I bowhunted during late season and the other I hunted with a muzzleloader and if you'd like to hunt with an xbow than you should have that right and you have my support.

I'm glad we have finally agreed to disagree about our views on the archery season. Like I said earlier this is generally one of those arguments that will not persuade any hunter to change their views.

What did you use during Regular season and what Muzzle loader do you own?

[Zhe Wiz]

it alters a way of life and a tradition. I wanted to avoid the "tradition" argument as long as I could as I know you will jump all over it with the same old responses like recurve and decreasing hunters numbers blah, blah, blah. It may not directly affect me except for maybe a few more hunters in the woods you're right. But it changes a sport that has been in place for many years and I just don't like it. And that's just me being brutally honest. Call me stubborn, call me an elites I don't really care....[snip]

See now that's written in a way I can respect. I see you are passionate about it, I get that, I really do. What I don't quite understand yet is why it matters to you that I'm NOT so passionate about it. Traditional bowhunting won't ever go away completely. It will become even more exclusive. Your passion and love is my frustration. Bowhunting is hard, VERY hard. Xbow hunting is easier, but still not easy. But I prefer it, it's what I'm comfortable with. I don't want to take away your tradition, I simply do not wish to participate in it.

that's exactly my point. you dont care what comes of a sport some of us love. who cares? screw it! screw the bow and arrow hunter as long as i get my way. I have answered your question in my post above. You just don't like it. We speak about tradition and use it all the time when we speak about the new gun laws and ARs but then we throw tradition to the wind when we talk xbows...

Sort of, but you take it too far. The thing is, I'm NOT asking that your tradition be taken away. You can continue bow hunting with whatever you want. I'm not "getting" the point of making me participate in your tradition.

Zhe Wiz

Edited January 24, 2013 by Zhe Wiz

[josephmrtn]

WOW you guys crack me up!!! same old thing back when compounds came out... everybody hated them and they were so unsporting and blah blah blah but almost EVERY one of those guys that hated em, shoot compounds today... sorry guys if you dont like xbows but they are the new thing and it is impossible to stop them from becoming the rage, just like compounds... i like em and if you dont, too bad.... you dont have too

[WNYBuckHunter]

it alters a way of life and a tradition. I wanted to avoid the "tradition" argument as long as I could as I know you will jump all over it with the same old responses like recurve and decreasing hunters numbers blah, blah, blah. It may not directly affect me except for maybe a few more hunters in the woods you're right. But it changes a sport that has been in place for many years and I just don't like it. And that's just me being brutally honest. Call me stubborn, call me an elites I don't really care. I just want to see the sport as I know it and the tradition of bow hunting carried on to my son and future generations. Autococking crossbows with bolts, scopes and triggers is just not archery.

See, you arent a traditional hunter, so you are only using what YOUR definition of tradition is, and saying thats how it should be. You are also using YOUR definition of what archery is and applying it to the real definition of such.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

See, you arent a traditional hunter, so you are only using what YOUR definition of tradition is, and saying thats how it should be. You are also using YOUR definition of what archery is and applying it to the real definition of such.

They don't understand that the meaningful tradition of hunting sports has nothing to do with what is held in yuor hand. It is all about what is held in your heart and head and who you share it with.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Exactly. To them its me me me, F everyone else, my way is the right way and I dont care if thats damaging to the sport overall, as long as it stays the way I like it.

[josephmrtn]

same old thing..... been going ever since the first hunters decided bone arrowheads were better than stone... or that hickory makes better arrows than willow... or three fletchings are better than two... ect ect ect

EDIT: spelling

Edited January 24, 2013 by josephmrtn

[d-bone20917]

Exactly. To them its me me me, F everyone else, my way is the right way and I dont care if thats damaging to the sport overall, as long as it stays the way I like it.

Exactly. Wait... are you talking about the pro-crossbow or anti-crossbow people?

[WNYBuckHunter]

Exactly. Wait... are you talking about the pro-crossbow or anti-crossbow people?

Antis. The pros are not forcing anything on anyone, only advocating for the choice of archery equipment. Allowing crossbows does not force anyone that doesnt want to use one, to use one. Cant say the same for the anti's argument of not allowing others to use the form of archery equipment they would like to. Ohio and other states that already allow crossbows are the proof in the pro-side's pudding.